ERA D4 by Signal Path International (makers of Musical Fidelity)

[Seth=L]

Seth,
I got the D5 and D3 locally in Canada. D3/4/5 are $500/750/1100 Cdn. I know it's more than in the States, but I like to support local shops to some extent. It can't all be online.

Jaxvon,
The D4 is built from 3/4" MDF and is very small. HWD 9.6" X 5.8" X 6.8". To hold it in your hand, it seems very heavy and sturdy for its size.

Thank you. I was quoted $400 for the D3s and $600 for the D4s. I just wanted to be sure the shop wasn't throwing random numbers at me.

 

[jaxvon]

Well, the B&W Nautilus are dead, really sounds like hitting a solid piece of concrete.

Yes, I forgot to include them. If you look at their resonance measurements on Stereophile (the Model Nautilus and the upper end 800 line), you will see they are very dead speakers.

 

[Seth=L]

Ok, I think I understand now.

I guess I was comparing the ERAs to big box store speakers like Polk, Yamaha, Klipsch, which have less than reasonable cabinet resonance within their lines. Polk and Yamaha have upper ends that probably get pretty close to dead.

 

[jaxvon]

Jaxvon,
The D4 is built from 3/4" MDF and is very small. HWD 9.6" X 5.8" X 6.8". To hold it in your hand, it seems very heavy and sturdy for its size.

Yes, but given the weight and measurements, I can say without a doubt that it is not very sturdy. Take for example, WmAx's highly modified Infinity Primus 160 cabinet (used for his computer speaker system's mid/treble modules). It is 14.50" H x 8.25" W x 11.00" D, but as you will see in the pictures below, features the original 5/8" MDF cabinet, a 1/2" of Peel n' Seal as a viscoelastic damper, then an 5/8" additional stiff sub layer to form a constrained layer. Inside that is oak matrix bracing that leaves no more than 2.5-3" of unsupported space anywhere in the cabinet. While not much larger in dimensions, the cabinet is quite dead and weighs in at 30lbs per speaker, fully assembled. That weight also includes some high density mineral wool fill that occupies the space between the bracing. I cannot furnish measurements on the modified cabinet for direct comparison, but it the resonances it possesses are much, much smaller in amplitude than the Era cabinet.

 

[Seth=L]

Yes, but given the weight and measurements, I can say without a doubt that it is not very sturdy. Take for example, WmAx's highly modified Infinity Primus 160 cabinet (used for his computer speaker system's mid/treble modules). It is 14.50" H x 8.25" W x 11.00" D, but as you will see in the pictures below, features the original 5/8" MDF cabinet, a 1/2" of Peel n' Seal as a viscoelastic damper, then an 5/8" additional stiff sub layer to form a constrained layer. Inside that is oak matrix bracing that leaves no more than 2.5-3" of unsupported space anywhere in the cabinet. While not much larger in dimensions, the cabinet is quite dead and weighs in at 30lbs per speaker, fully assembled. That weight also includes some high density mineral wool fill that occupies the space between the bracing. I cannot furnish measurements on the modified cabinet for direct comparison, but it the resonances it possesses are much, much smaller in amplitude than the Era cabinet.

You wouldn't happen to have pictures of those fully assembled would you?

 

[jaxvon]

You wouldn't happen to have pictures of those fully assembled would you?

Here they are, refinished in a nice Walnut veneer instead of the stock vinyl:

 

[Seth=L]

Here they are, refinished in a nice Walnut veneer instead of the stock vinyl:

So they weigh 30 pounds a piece?

They look really nice. The only thing that ever bothered me about the Primus series was the smaller tweeter. I don't know about small tweeters sometimes, maybe I am just paranoid.

Those have 6.5" mid-bass drivers correct?

 

[WmAx]

So they weigh 30 pounds a piece?

They look really nice. The only thing that ever bothered me about the Primus series was the smaller tweeter. I don't know about small tweeters sometimes, maybe I am just paranoid.

Those have 6.5" mid-bass drivers correct?

I see that my lowly computer speakers have become an issue in this thread.

The smaller tweeter has no issue. This system also has no passive crossover. It was removed, and this is now an active system ( a discrete amplification channel to each driver), used in conjunction with stereo woofer modules. One can not draw comparisons with a stock Primus 160, as this is been changed radically. This is a very low resonance(though, still not completely inaudible), very linear system intended for near-field monitoring purposes ( +/- 0.6 dB up to about 16khz) in a highly acoustically treated environment.

Yes, those are 6.5" midbass drivers.

-Chris

 

[Seth=L]

I see that my lowly computer speakers have become an issue in this thread.

The smaller tweeter has no issue. This system also has no passive crossover. It was removed, and this is now an active system ( a discrete amplification channel to each driver), used in conjunction with stereo woofer modules. One can not draw comparisons with a stock Primus 160, as this is been changed radically. This is a very low resonance(though, still not completely inaudible), very linear system intended for near-field monitoring purposes ( +/- 0.6 dB up to about 16khz) in a highly acoustically treated environment.

Yes, those are 6.5" midbass drivers.

-Chris

Your lowly Primus speakers look and likely sound better than my higher series Interludes. CAN YOU FIX EM?

LOL, I know you are probably booked with other folks that want similar things done to their speakers and I am sure it costs a pretty penny as well if you happen to do this for other people.

I would be currious to know though, if or what you charge for such work.

 

[WmAx]

Your lowly Primus speakers look and likely sound better than my higher series Interludes. CAN YOU FIX EM?

There is little doubt that these Primuses are substantially superior to almost anything commercial, regardless of price, in terms of linearity and resonance behaviour. Exceptions of better resonance behaviour would be rare, such as Rockport Antares or B&W 802D/801D/800D. Though, these will not be as linear in response as my lowly modified Primus units. The flagship Nautilus (the large active odd looking unit) would be slightly superior in all respects, however. I did attempt to produce an extraordinarily linear monitor system at [relatively] low cost. A high budget would yield superior results.

Actually, yes, I could dramatically improve the Interludes. The Interlude series by Infinity used decent crossover design and superb drivers. The cabinets are average, and will contribute substantial timbre distortion.

I would be currious to know though, if or what you charge for such work.

Such costs are highly variable, depending on the extent of modification that one desires. The most affordable option is modification (but leaving the original finish) internally, similar to what you see here. However, this option will usually require you to use a subwoofer with the speakers, as the reduced internal volume of the stock cabinet will no longer be able to provide the extended bass response. A new cabinet is always an option, but this is a substantially more expensive option. If you are really interested in specifics, you should PM me.

-Chris

 

[Davemcc]

Yes, but given the weight and measurements, I can say without a doubt that it is not very sturdy. Take for example, WmAx's highly modified Infinity Primus 160 cabinet

This thing is more bank vault than speaker. It looks like something I'd put my wife's jewelery in.

I don't regard WmAx's design as an example of a commercially available off-the-shelf speaker design, which is what we were talking about, right? There's sturdy, and then there's sturdy. For example, there is a Samsung HTIB that was highly regarded by a reviewer on this site where the speakers are little more than plastic tubes with speakers screwed in. Then there's the Infinity Primus, originally with 5/8" construction, then there's the Era D4 constructed with 3/4" MDF. For an off-the-shelf speaker at the $400 price point, I think it competes just fine in its class.

Jaxvon, you're not too far from me. I've read your posts and respect your judgement. If you want, you can come over and listen to my D5's, take them apart, do what you need to do. I think there's a lot of people in the community that would welcome your verdict on the design.

 

[jaxvon]

This thing is more bank vault than speaker. It looks like something I'd put my wife's jewelery in.

I don't regard WmAx's design as an example of a commercially available off-the-shelf speaker design, which is what we were talking about, right? There's sturdy, and then there's sturdy. For example, there is a Samsung HTIB that was highly regarded by a reviewer on this site where the speakers are little more than plastic tubes with speakers screwed in. Then there's the Infinity Primus, originally with 5/8" construction, then there's the Era D4 constructed with 3/4" MDF. For an off-the-shelf speaker at the $400 price point, I think it competes just fine in its class.

Jaxvon, you're not too far from me. I've read your posts and respect your judgement. If you want, you can come over and listen to my D5's, take them apart, do what you need to do. I think there's a lot of people in the community that would welcome your verdict on the design.

There are speakers out there, commercially available, that are that sturdy, but as WmAx alluded to with his examples (and I can add one more, the Meridian DSP8000), they are not cheap to acquire. As for comparing to other speakers in their class, the D4 seems to be doing the exact same things. It doesn't meet my (ridiculously) high standards for truly high end build quality, nor could it for $400.

As for a visiting, I'll contact you via PM if I decide I'd like to make the trip.

 

[Sheep]

This thing is more bank vault than speaker. It looks like something I'd put my wife's jewelery in.

I don't regard WmAx's design as an example of a commercially available off-the-shelf speaker design, which is what we were talking about, right? There's sturdy, and then there's sturdy. For example, there is a Samsung HTIB that was highly regarded by a reviewer on this site where the speakers are little more than plastic tubes with speakers screwed in. Then there's the Infinity Primus, originally with 5/8" construction, then there's the Era D4 constructed with 3/4" MDF. For an off-the-shelf speaker at the $400 price point, I think it competes just fine in its class.

Jaxvon, you're not too far from me. I've read your posts and respect your judgement. If you want, you can come over and listen to my D5's, take them apart, do what you need to do. I think there's a lot of people in the community that would welcome your verdict on the design.

The Aperion Audio speakers use 1inch MDF in all of their speakers too. It takes much more then just thick walls to tame the resonance. Subwoofers can get away with much more resonance because they don't play in the large midrange band.

SheepStar

 

[Davemcc]

Seth=L,
I got the D3 for surrounds, but my lazy self hasn't mounted them yet. I've been using them in my bedroom system for about a week now. (Denon AVR-686S and DVD-556, Sony sub). I have them crossed over at 120Hz because there is a noticable boominess around the 100Hz region, just as Jaxvon's post illustrated. It's pretty bad.

I urge you to reconsider using these as mains and wait until you can get the D4. It is a substantial improvement in sound quality and well worth the difference in price.

 

[Davemcc]

Edit to above. It's actually crossed over at 150hz to get over that boominess in the lower range. With the current set-up, they sound OK but still somewhat hollow and resonant in the lower reaches.

 

[Seth=L]

Edit to above. It's actually crossed over at 150hz to get over that boominess in the lower range. With the current set-up, they sound OK but still somewhat hollow and resonant in the lower reaches.

I am sorry, you have me confused.

Are you saying I should use the D3s as mains and get the D4s at a later date and move the D3s to the rear?

I guess I wasn't being concise about what I was planning on doing, and in any case it is not relevant now. My plan was to put those D3s, if I chose to get them, with the Teac CD/Receiver in the bedroom. I now have some Sony ED speakers that I got from Circuit City a couple of years ago (long story on how I got them back). So I am now using the Sonys as surrounds in the living room and my efficient BIC towers in the bedroom. It has all worked out quite well.

 

[Davemcc]

Actually, I was urging you not to get the D3 at all for use as mains. I don't find them all that good as mains, even in a small bedroom. But it's a moot point now, I guess.

I think they're going to be fine as surrounds, since I'm not a big movie watcher, nor that critical of surround performance.

 

[Seth=L]

It's been about 4 years since I auditioned a pair of these, now I have a pair. My how time flows slowly.

 

[Seth=L]

Now that I have had the time to listen to these in my home I'm beyond satisfied with them and not just the sound. Only one thing disappoints me about them is they are made in China. Otherwise the ERA D4 fills the void in all compact yet full range component system I've been trying to assemble. Paired with the Teac A-H500 integrated amplifier and PD-H570 7 disc CD changer the ERA D4 really shines. Because the D4 presents a slight challenge for amplifiers with its relatively low efficiency, 84dB 1w/m, the A-H500 is the seamless match to them in both size and power.

I'm pleased with the simplicity and elegance of this little bedroom system. While it's not much it is the culmination of a five or so year audio dream for me. For the time being I will rest and maintain what I have.

 

[Davemcc]

Better late than never. LOL