SEALED 12" Kit?

[speakerman39]

I'm not aware of a sub out there that will beat the Rythmik, for the money. In fact, they Rythmik will kick the crap out of most subs out there that cost twice as much.

I don't remember the size of the sheet of MDF I bought, but I do remember that I only bought the 1 sheet and I had enough left over to build another box.

Thanks this tells me a lot. I am considering building the cabinet out of 3/4" birch plywood with 1/2" MDF in between for a total of 2" thick. It all depends on my budget of course. Anyways, thanks for the help.

 

[speakerman39]

I am considering a project (once I get some others done) with the Dayton 12" High Fidelity subwoofer and a 300w rms amplifier (or larger) and two 3" aero ports. Using WinISD in a 5 ft^3 box tuned to about 19-20 hz it is ruler flat to 20hz with no eq (anechoic). I can get this done for under $300.00 including materials for enclosure. Add on a Behringer DCX2496, and I have any response curve wanted (ie: any sound desired). This can all be done for under $550.00.

And you sure have the talent doing things such as this. When you do be sure to take some pics along the way for all of us to see. Just wished I had your ability.

 

[speakerman39]

I've heard Darien's sub a couple of times and I do have to say it sounds great. It does perhaps lack a bit of that big tactile response of a similarly designed vented sub, but it is clean and it digs deeper than I expected.

Hi John thanks for posting. To be honest I was hoping you would as I am very aware you know your stuff so to speak. With that said, may I ask what "other" vented design you were referring to??? Also, how would a Rythmik kit perform in conjuction with a SVS PB12-NSD??? More specifically, will the Rythmik kit give me that tight, punchy, well-defined, and most importantly articulate bass I strive for when listening to music??? If any meber here would know it would have to be one like you John. Please share your thoughts.

 

[darien87]

I am considering a project (once I get some others done) with the Dayton 12" High Fidelity subwoofer and a 300w rms amplifier (or larger) and two 3" aero ports. Using WinISD in a 5 ft^3 box tuned to about 19-20 hz it is ruler flat to 20hz with no eq (anechoic). I can get this done for under $300.00 including materials for enclosure. Add on a Behringer DCX2496, and I have any response curve wanted (ie: any sound desired). This can all be done for under $550.00.

Sounds like a cool project. Hurry up and do it and tell us how it sounds.

 

[speakerman39]

Sounds like a cool project. Hurry up and do it and tell us how it sounds.

I second that one. It will be interesting to say the least.

 

[speakerman39]

I've heard Darien's sub a couple of times and I do have to say it sounds great. It does perhaps lack a bit of that big tactile response of a similarly designed vented sub, but it is clean and it digs deeper than I expected.

Hi John..............what sub were you referring to as a similiar design if you dont mind me asking? Just curious is all.

 

[j_garcia]

I guess I am referring to vented subs in general; but the most recent vented sub I've heard other than my own would be the SVS 20-39Plus. I use the same amp as the one used in the Rythmik kit, but my sub is much larger (around 3x) and uses a 15" driver, and I get a lot more output than this kit. We didn't push it, so I don't actually know the limits of what this kit can do, but calibrated flat it sounded very good overall.

 

[speakerman39]

I guess I am referring to vented subs in general; but the most recent vented sub I've heard other than my own would be the SVS 20-39Plus. I use the same amp as the one used in the Rythmik kit, but my sub is much larger (around 3x) and uses a 15" driver, and I get a lot more output than this kit. We didn't push it, so I don't actually know the limits of what this kit can do, but calibrated flat it sounded very good overall.

Yeah, I am sure the 15" would have more ouput. But, how is it with music??? I mean most 15" drivers I ever heard had a bit of over-hang when listening to music. In other words, most 15" subs I have heard were a bit slow and somewhat sloppy when listening to music. Thus, this seemed to muddy things up a bit resulting in a (1) note-ish sound. Not saying that is the case with your 15" sub just speaking in general terms. I have never heard the Paradigm Servo 15 but have read good things about it. So, John how will the Rythmik kit work in conjuction with my SVS PB12-NSD??? My goal is to get more punch in the 40-80 Hz range where most of the music action is. Lots of tight punchy bass. Just wanted to see what you thought. Thanks for posting John. Have a great day.

 

[annunaki]

Have most of the 15" drivers you heard been properly calibrated and balanced within the system it is used? 15" woofer can often sound "sloppy" as you say but it is due to the fact they are improperly set up, not that they are actually "sloppy" or "slow". They sound that way because the bass is too hot, overpowering everything else rather than blending in the way they should. Most 15" woofers do best with a x-over point around 60hz, some you can do a bit higher. I did a 15" Dayton Titanic MKIII with a 500 watt plate amp and a 3.0 ft^3 sealed enclosure for my parents (60hz x-over) and it is not boomy or sloppy at all. It is nice, tight and controlled. It is also well calibrated within the system though.

 

[j_garcia]

Mine does seem to have a touch of overhang, but it definitely isn't slow or one note sounding. I wasn't expecting it to be as good with music as it is. The servo 15 is a good sub too, just a little more costly than I'd like

It is hard to say how the Rythmik will do because it is going to vary some based on the room. Will it give you better kick with music? I'd think it will, but if you are looking to add another sub at the additional cost, how about just selling off the PB-12 and stepping up to a 20-39Plus?

 

[speakerman39]

Have most of the 15" drivers you heard been properly calibrated and balanced within the system it is used? 15" woofer can often sound "sloppy" as you say but it is due to the fact they are improperly set up, not that they are actually "sloppy" or "slow". They sound that way because the bass is too hot, overpowering everything else rather than blending in the way they should. Most 15" woofers do best with a x-over point around 60hz, some you can do a bit higher. I did a 15" Dayton Titanic MKIII with a 500 watt plate amp and a 3.0 ft^3 sealed enclosure for my parents (60hz x-over) and it is not boomy or sloppy at all. It is nice, tight and controlled. It is also well calibrated within the system though.

The Titanic is another kit I am considering. The way you describe how it performs is EXACTLY what I am looking for. Perhaps I need to take a closer look at that kit. Right now, it is going for a little over $600 right now which is a very great price.

 

[speakerman39]

Mine does seem to have a touch of overhang, but it definitely isn't slow or one note sounding. I wasn't expecting it to be as good with music as it is. The servo 15 is a good sub too, just a little more costly than I'd like

It is hard to say how the Rythmik will do because it is going to vary some based on the room. Will it give you better kick with music? I'd think it will, but if you are looking to add another sub at the additional cost, how about just selling off the PB-12 and stepping up to a 20-39Plus?

Hi John. Once again thanks for posting. Can you tell me a bit more about the 20-39PLUS? I assume it is beeter with respect to musical applications BUT how does it perform with ht? It is my understanding that the Rythmik kit does BOTH musical applications and ht very well. This has something to do w/the "SERVO" technology I suppose. Care to be a bit more specific since you seem to know a great deal about the SVS subs. Annunaki does as well and I appreciate all of your help that everyone has given me here.

 

[annunaki]

The Titanic is another kit I am considering. The way you describe how it performs is EXACTLY what I am looking for. Perhaps I need to take a closer look at that kit. Right now, it is going for a little over $600 right now which is a very great price.

The kit you are looking at, does it use the 1000w amplifier or the 500w? If it uses the 1000w it is a very good deal. The extra power would be very beneficial. What type of crossover frequecy are you looking at using for your system? How low of frequency are your main, center, and surround speakers rated?

 

[Ron Temple]

I'll jump in since it's my Plus. I've heard Darien's Rythmik, I've auditioned a Velo DD15 for a month and John and I built a DIY SVS Plus with a PR design. I haven't heard the PB12NSD.

My experience with any large ported design is that due to the low tuning point it's subject to room gain, especially corner loaded, in the lowest octave. If you have any sort of a suckout in the 40-60hz area, deep bass dominates upper bass and the sub, no matter how capable, sounds a bit fat and not articulate. I feel those that feel SVS falls short musically are more likely suffering from room/calibration issues than lack of capability.

Back to the differences, the Plus will hit harder and be more articulate than the NSD. Tune it to 25hz and it will get even tighter. That being said, the sealed Velo and probably the Rythmik are slightly better for music. I haven't heard Darien's stretch and so didn't get a tactile feel, but the Velo had great upper bass detail and impact, extention into the teens, just not the power or pressurization in the depths. When running non-colocated dual +s, I got flat, the upper bass snapped in. Calibrated 5 dbs down from the mains, I get extremely tight uber-bass.

If you're going to run duals, I'd think both the kits, though the Rythmik's numbers impress me more, would greatly enhance your musical and HT bass...same with the Plus. You can't lose either way.

 

[speakerman39]

The kit you are looking at, does it use the 1000w amplifier or the 500w? If it uses the 1000w it is a very good deal. The extra power would be very beneficial. What type of crossover frequecy are you looking at using for your system? How low of frequency are your main, center, and surround speakers rated?

My mains are the Primus 360's BUT have very little bass. I have them X-overed at 80 Hz right now. It would be hard to go much lower because my center the Primus PC350 and rears the Primus 150's need to stay arounf the 80 Hz setting. The 360's could go a bit lower BUT I can NOT adjust them separately. In other words, whatever X-over setting I select incorporates all speakers set to "small". I tried the 360's set to "large" BUT it just does NOT sound as good to me. The 360 towere do, however, offer more dynamic capability than say using the 150's/160's for fronts. The kit I was referring to has the 1000 watt rms amp. That sub has to be a monster to say the least.

 

[speakerman39]

I'll jump in since it's my Plus. I've heard Darien's Rythmik, I've auditioned a Velo DD15 for a month and John and I built a DIY SVS Plus with a PR design. I haven't heard the PB12NSD.

My experience with any large ported design is that due to the low tuning point it's subject to room gain, especially corner loaded, in the lowest octave. If you have any sort of a suckout in the 40-60hz area, deep bass dominates upper bass and the sub, no matter how capable, sounds a bit fat and not articulate. I feel those that feel SVS falls short musically are more likely suffering from room/calibration issues than lack of capability.

Back to the differences, the Plus will hit harder and be more articulate than the NSD. Tune it to 25hz and it will get even tighter. That being said, the sealed Velo and probably the Rythmik are slightly better for music. I haven't heard Darien's stretch and so didn't get a tactile feel, but the Velo had great upper bass detail and impact, extention into the teens, just not the power or pressurization in the depths. When running non-colocated dual +s, I got flat, the upper bass snapped in. Calibrated 5 dbs down from the mains, I get extremely tight uber-bass.

If you're going to run duals, I'd think both the kits, though the Rythmik's numbers impress me more, would greatly enhance your musical and HT bass...same with the Plus. You can't lose either way.

Hi Ron and thanks for posting. I have read several of your posts and have learned a great deal by doing so. With that said I would like to point out that in no way am I unhappy with my PB12-NSD. But after countless email to Ed Mullen and moving things around a bit I now have my PB12-NSD in the optimal location for my living-room. Thus, it is located between my mains. As I have said on several occasions the PB12-NSD is NOT lacking in the lowest octaves BUT rather is a bit thin in the 40-80 Hz range. For example, when listening to fast up-beat music the kick-drum sounds very light. I prefer more punch and the PB12-NSD is not quite as articulate as I long for. So, in essence I want more tight, punchy, articulate bass that is MUCH thicker than what I am getting now. It also must be well defined and handle the transients well. No boomy one-note sounding bass. The PB12-NSD is not doing too bad BUT just need tighter output above 40 Hz and things will be fine. Maybe use my PB12-NSD when watching movies and getting a different sub such as the Rythmik kit for musical applications. But, the PE 15" Titanik III kit for only $610 delivered is almost too good to be true. I mean output of 115 db. That would really be awesome. The question is though will it suffer from overhang and thus muddy things up resulting in a one-note tone. From what I have garnered thus far, the Titanic III kit is just the opposite giving me what I am looking for. So, a better question is how does the Rythmik compare to the PE 15" Titanic III kit???? Care to elaborate?

 

[annunaki]

Speakerman,

Is it the attack of the kick drum you are after? That initial mallet strike hitting the skin? Or the thud that comes just after it?

If it is that initial attack, you need more midbass rather than subwoofer. You may even be better suited to add an eq so you can tailor the response to your liking. You have a very good subwoofer as it is, and it seems you have figured out the best position in your room.

Have you had the opportunity to see how the room response is using an RTA? What about test tones and an SPL meter? Do you perhaps have a null at your listening position from 40hz-80hz?

 

[speakerman39]

Speakerman,

Is it the attack of the kick drum you are after? That initial mallet strike hitting the skin? Or the thud that comes just after it?

If it is that initial attack, you need more midbass rather than subwoofer. You may even be better suited to add an eq so you can tailor the response to your liking. You have a very good subwoofer as it is, and it seems you have figured out the best position in your room.

Have you had the opportunity to see how the room response is using an RTA? What about test tones and an SPL meter? Do you perhaps have a null at your listening position from 40hz-80hz?

I want more attack-quicker, punchier, tighter, more controlled, and with more slam OR heaviness if you will. But, I also want more definition between transients. Yeah, I guess I want it all............LOL!!!!!!! Yes, I need more midbass BUT after working w/Ed Mullen my response is almost ruler flat from 20 Hz-80 Hz. This was done manually by using RS meter and the Rives Test CD2. Tracks 32-62 already account for the non-linearity of the RS meter. Ed told me I want more or less a "midbass" hump. He then suggested that I boost the signal between 40-60 Hz range and see how it affects the 60-80 Hz range. However, Ed was clear that I have plenty of energy between 20-80Hz that is almosrt ruler flat. Maybe I am used to a non-flat sound I dunno. But, I need more than what I am getting right now even though Ed helped me to get things sounding better. Just need more of it and with more resolve. Ed recommended me getting a BFD and I am looking into it as we speak.

 

[annunaki]

Honestly, I would consider another PB-12NSD. That will help in the slam department and balance response better through out the room. I would also invest in a behringer DCX2496 digital crossover eq for your subwoofers. You will be able to get the exact response you are after in the bass department. I would also suggest moving to a speaker that has more midbass oomph to match your sub(s). It sounds to me this is really what can make "the" difference. Getting a pair of speakers for your fronts that are good down to 40hz-50hz should help out a lot. Multiple drivers (for mid bass) will help you out there as well.

If you must do a new sub(s) it is sounding like the Rythmik may be a good choice for you. Sealed may be a decent route to go, but I would definitely do the EQ in that instance. After having that SVS the real deep bass will be less than what you are used to with a ported system.

If it is accuracy and slam you are after you may want to consider a DIY with two of the JL Audio 12W6v2 or 13W6v2 in properly done ported or sealed enclosures. They are pricey drivers ($430-$530 retail each) I admit, but they are some of the most accurate subs I have heard to date and that includes my W7 and SVS PB-12 Ultra. Mate them up with an EP2500 and a DCX 2496 and you have one hell of an accurate sub system.

 

[annunaki]

Please elaborate on a "BFD"?