My First Post, I have a question about speaker wires

[LBrize]

Hey all, I thought since I originated the post I'd offer my opinion as well.
Taking into account that there are many who simply don't believe there is an audible difference in wires, from novices to professional reviewers, I really just have to be honest and say that I can, quite easily, hear differences in wires. I can also hear differences in cd players (remember that?), picture differences in dvd players, etc.
Another myth (Julian Hirsch from stereo review) that we do not have the ability to remember how speakers sound. I can remember how a pair of Castles I once heard sounded, how an Audible Illusions M3 preamp sound so sweet and quiet, and how one of the first $30,000-plus Home Theater system sounded.
Perhaps my hearing is better than some others, perhaps not, but I can pick out one instrument in a concert and just listen to the one clarinetist, or trumpet, and I can definitely hear the differences between zip chord, solid core hookup wire, and the disappointing sound of the "good" cables I purchased several days ago.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Hey all, I thought since I originated the post I'd offer my opinion as well.
Taking into account that there are many who simply don't believe there is an audible difference in wires, from novices to professional reviewers, I really just have to be honest and say that I can, quite easily, hear differences in wires. I can also hear differences in cd players (remember that?), picture differences in dvd players, etc.
Another myth (Julian Hirsch from stereo review) that we do not have the ability to remember how speakers sound. I can remember how a pair of Castles I once heard sounded, how an Audible Illusions M3 preamp sound so sweet and quiet, and how one of the first $30,000-plus Home Theater system sounded.
Perhaps my hearing is better than some others, perhaps not, but I can pick out one instrument in a concert and just listen to the one clarinetist, or trumpet, and I can definitely hear the differences between zip chord, solid core hookup wire, and the disappointing sound of the "good" cables I purchased several days ago.

I believe that you believe all of that. This is, of course, quite different than actually believing any of it. In particular, there is a major difference between remembering that you liked or disliked a particular system (which I am sure you do) and actually having a detailed memory of the sound (which I am equally sure you don't.)

 

[B&W700guy]

Common Group Hug....that would be like arguing what band is better Yes or Abba. And I know you like Abba, so why argue

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can, quite easily, hear differences in wires.

I guess anything is possible. I guess it's possible that aliens live among us
I guess there might even be mutants with special hearing powers

I don't think it's wrong at all if you say that you think you can hear every difference. That's cool. But the same question that will be asked time and time again is "Was it at least a Single-blinded Listening study?"
If you have been part of a double or single-blinded study and you could tell the difference at least 80% of the time, then people will believe that you can actually tell the difference.

But anything is possible. Just because I can't tell the difference and 99.99% of all people can't tell the difference doesn't mean that you can't.

 

[B&W700guy]

I believe that you believe all of that. This is, of course, quite different than actually believing any of it. In particular, there is a major difference between remembering that you liked or disliked a particular system (which I am sure you do) and actually having a detailed memory of the sound (which I am equally sure you don't.)

I believe, you believe.....but I don't beleive what you believe. Now, can we all be freinds

 

[B&W700guy]

I guess anything is possible. I guess it's possible that aliens live among us
I guess there might even be mutants with special hearing powers

I don't think it's wrong at all if you say that you think you can hear every difference. That's cool. But the same question that will be asked time and time again is "Was it at least a Single-blinded Listening study?"
If you have been part of a double or single-blinded study and you could tell the difference at least 80% of the time, then people will believe that you can actually tell the difference.

But anything is possible. Just because I can't tell the difference and 99.99% of all people can't tell the difference doesn't mean that you can't.

I thinK it is more like Muntants with less hearing powers

So you don't beleive thats ok.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

So you don't beleive thats ok.

The claims about cables are actually relatively easy to believe compared to the claim about the "myth" of short auditory memory. It is a proven fact that auditory memory lasts a few minutes at the most. Nobody can make a valid comparison between speakers by hearing them an hour or more apart, unless there are huge differences.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Hey, I am on your side but not for the same reason. You think you can hear a difference in the wire when you cant and I think big, bulky wire is cool which it's not. I would love to have some giant Norquest wire but I am way to cheap to spnd money on something that doesnt matter. I am seriously considering replacing my 12 year old wire once I find some 10 gauge that is less than 30 cents/ft.

No...no no no...B&W GUY is cool and Greg is not.. now Greg don't hang your self with the 12 year old radio shack lamp cord! Well it is ok it will break before you get hurt

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hey, I am on your side but not for the same reason. You think you can hear a difference in the wire when you cant and I think big, bulky wire is cool which it's not. I would love to have some giant Norquest wire but I am way to cheap to spnd money on something that doesnt matter. I am seriously considering replacing my 12 year old wire once I find some 10 gauge that is less than 30 cents/ft.

If I were Bill Gates, I would definitely buy those $10,000 Kimber Kable wires just because I can. And if they came out with $50,000 cables, I would buy those and give my $10,000 cables to my brother

I love cool looking cables too. But I'm too cheap as well. I can't hear the difference, but I sure can SEE the difference

Actually, if Kimber Kable or Norquest would just drop their prices, I would definitely get them just for the coolness effect. I wouldn't cover them up either. I would want everyone too see my wires.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I believe that you believe all of that. This is, of course, quite different than actually believing any of it. In particular, there is a major difference between remembering that you liked or disliked a particular system (which I am sure you do) and actually having a detailed memory of the sound (which I am equally sure you don't.)

Oh, this is great, too much. LOL

 

[B&W700guy]

Hey, I am on your side but not for the same reason. You think you can hear a difference in the wire when you cant and I think big, bulky wire is cool which it's not. I would love to have some giant Norquest wire but I am way to cheap to spnd money on something that doesnt matter. I am seriously considering replacing my 12 year old wire once I find some 10 gauge that is less than 30 cents/ft.

Now can we all get along.....come on....

 

[B&W700guy]

Oh, this is great, too much. LOL

Now that you have your LOL, can we all know agree to disagree...pleese...I love it when you guys get All Geeked Up.

 

[LBrize]

Just a quick question, can any of you hear the 16kHz sound that comes from tube tv's? Or the sound of the capacitor charging in a flash camera? If not, then I'm not surprised you can't hear any differences in wire.
How about the memory.. I know this a gross example, but do you remember the fire alarm in grade school? When you think about it, don'tyou remember what it sounded like? What about when you walk outside in the morning to go to work, you can hear it in your head when you think about it, right?
Now, how about this. If you think about it, can't you "hear" in your mind the difference in the sound of running water in your bathroom, kitchen, bath tub, shower, and washing machine? All running water, so if there's no memory of auditory details, why did you just hear all of those different sounds in your head? What about the sound of your car engine, versus the sound of your wife's car? Do you need to look outside to know which car she is taking down the road? No? Because you remember what your car sounds like?

So why is it so hard to believe that type of memory is possible with smaller details?

Edit: Besides, guys I don't know what kind of stereos you all have, but I have a Pioneer receiver that's like 300 watts and a pair of Bose 501's. If your stereo isn't as good as that I can see why you can't tell any differences in wire.

 

[MDS]

All I am going to say is that example is known as arguing from a false premise.

 

[obscbyclouds]

Edit: Besides, guys I don't know what kind of stereos you all have, but I have a Pioneer receiver that's like 300 watts and a pair of Bose 501's. If your stereo isn't as good as that I can see why you can't tell any differences in wire.

I hope that's a joke, if so, it sure is a good one!

 

[LBrize]

All I am going to say is that example is known as arguing from a false premise.

How so? We are talking about auditory memory, right?

p.s. How can I create a signature that lists my setup similar to some others I have seen? Thanks

 

[Wafflesomd]

Once again.

I have to reccomend head-fi for all your cable needs.

If anyone can tell the difference between cables, it's them!

 

[MDS]

It's getting late and I'm fading fast so I'll pick this up tomorrow.

But, first of all auditory memory is about 4 seconds.

You think you remember the sound of the fire alarm right? Well, I remember the fire alarm went off dozens of times when I was in middle school - 30 years ago. Do you really think that if you heard the fire alarm at a high school as you drove by you could honestly say to yourself 'Gee, the fire alarm at middle school was much higher in pitch'. Get real.

That is false premise number one - assuming you have an adequate baseline for comparing sounds from the past with those you encounter in the present. If the past was 4 seconds ago, maybe....

Look, I don't particularly care if people believe they like the sound of one wire vs another. Maybe they actually do prefer one to another because one is accurate and adds no coloration to the sound and the other is high in capacitance and rolls off the highs, but it is incredibly simple to shred the argument that claims to prove that there is a marked difference betweeen wires.

The signature junk is in Quick Links->Edit Signature.

 

[LBrize]

Thank you for the signature info.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I hope that's a joke, if so, it sure is a good one!

Yes, I needed a good one about now and he provided it.