Toshiba HD-DVD A20 vs A2

[math wizard]

I'm in the market for buying an HD-DVD player and can't decide between two models. The Toshiba A20 outputs 720p/1080i/1080p and upconcoverts up to 480p/720p/1080i/1080p. The A2 outputs 720p/1080i and upconcoverts up to 480p/720p/1080i. My TV (Samsung HP-S5053) has a native resolution of
720p. Would the A20 be overkill for this monitor? Will a 1080p signal be down-converted to 720p by the monitor? Will a 1080p signal display a better picture on this monitor than a 720p or 1080i signal? Any comments are appreciated.

 

[avaserfi]

You don't need the A20. If your screens native resolution is 720p thats what you will want to upconvert/display at because if you send any other signal to your screen it will just get up/downscaled to 720p.

 

[Seth=L]

That said, you can set the A20 to work with your TV. If you think you will ever upgrade your television (I assume you will, it has to break sometime.) the A20 would be more practical for the upgrade minded. Each player should produce the same results on your current television.

 

[jcPanny]

Get the A2

Save $100 and get the A2. Your current HDTV can't take advantage of 1080p output and will scale a 1080i input down to its native resolution. A few years from now if you decide to upgrade your TV, HD-DVD coupld be obsolete and if it is still around a new players will cost >$100.

 

[adk highlander]

Go with the A2. Hometheatermag did a review of the A20 this month and the units 1080p output was questionable. I don't have the article with me at work but I can post the details tonight if you are interested. Save your $100.

 

[detroit1]

reply

the 1080i, 1080p comparison is total nonsense

read what Projector Central said about this:

At this point we should address what can only be characterized as a hoax—the notion that Blu-ray must be technically superior to HD-DVD because the Samsung player outputs 1080p, whereas the Toshiba player is "only 1080i." One high-end home theater retailer told me last weekend that the reason you pay $1000 for the Blu-ray player is for the "higher resolution 1080p output." This is absolute baloney. If you encounter any retail sales rep feeding you this line, keep your wallet in your pocket and leave the store.

The truth is this: The Toshiba HD-DVD player outputs 1080i, and the Samsung Blu-ray player outputs both 1080i and 1080p. What they fail to mention is that it makes absolutely no difference which transmission format you use—feeding 1080i or 1080p into your projector or HDTV will give you the exact same picture. Why? Both disc formats encode film material in progressive scan 1080p at 24 frames per second. It does not matter whether you output this data in 1080i or 1080p since all 1080 lines of information on the disc are fed into your video display either way. The only difference is the order in which they are transmitted. If they are fed in progressive order (1080p), the video display will process them in that order. If they are fed in interlaced format (1080i), the video display simply reassembles them into their original progressive scan order. Either way all 1080 lines per frame that are on the disc make it into the projector or TV. The fact is, if you happen to have the Samsung Blu-ray player and a video display that takes both 1080i and 1080p, you can switch the player back and forth between 1080i and 1080p output and see absolutely no difference in the picture. So this notion that the Blu-ray player is worth more money due to 1080p output is nonsense.

 

[avaserfi]

There is a difference between 1080i and 1080p and that comes into play when the images are actually moving due to the processes involved with interlaced image refreshing. Read an indepth article here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/feature-article-1080p-3-2007-part-1.html

 

[no. 5]

the 1080i, 1080p comparison is total nonsense

Unless its a comparison between 1080i60 and 1080p24.

 

[detroit1]

in reality, though, you will not see this difference when you are watching the programs. this all sounds good in theory

 

[BMXTRIX]

in reality, though, you will not see this difference when you are watching the programs. this all sounds good in theory

It can make a difference on any display if it doesn't deinterlace properly, but you sure as hell came here with a holier than thou comparison of a Blu-ray player vs. a HD DVD player instead of addressing the actual HD DVD vs. HD DVD player that the original poster requested an opinion on.

The verdict from Home Theater Magazine, which is likely a very good one, is that the A20 doesn't offer solid enough processing on board to properly handle 1080p/60 output without introducing flaws to the video, as such, you should save your cash and go with the A2, or if you demand 1080p and want it to be good, then you will need to go up to the XA2 which adds analog output for HD audio formats.

I would stick with the A2 over the A20... and I wouldn't buy either with the news that has been coming out in regards to Blu-ray.

 

[detroit1]

keep in mind that HD DVD has Better Quality than Blue-Ray
Every review I have read comparing the same movie in both formats says the HD DVD is better quality. If you look at the Dolby web site, the Audio specs are much better with HD DVD than Blue Ray. Also, last month, the #1 selling DVD player on Amazon was the Toshiba HD-A2
Blue Ray uses MPEG2 for Video, that is NOT as good as the VC-1 that HD DVD uses for video

 

[avaserfi]

keep in mind that HD DVD has Better Quality than Blue-Ray
Every review I have read comparing the same movie in both formats says the HD DVD is better quality. If you look at the Dolby web site, the Audio specs are much better with HD DVD than Blue Ray. Also, last month, the #1 selling DVD player on Amazon was the Toshiba HD-A2
Blue Ray uses MPEG2 for Video, that is NOT as good as the VC-1 that HD DVD uses for video

Actually the audio/video quality between the two formats is the same with only differences being in the actual mastering of the disc. Lets look at the new release 300 for example. Here is a link to a review and specs on the HD version and here is the BD version. Notice how both have VC-1? Ohh, and their audio is exactly the same spec wise...curious isn't it?

Also its Blu-ray not Blue Ray...

 

[detroit1]

are you joking? that is 1 movie. It specifically states in the definition of both formats that HD DVD uses VC-1 while most all Blu-Ray uses MPEG2, just read the reviews of comparing both formats with the same movie; the results speak for themselves
also go to dolby.com; it specifically says the bitrate on Dolby Digital plus is 3 or higher on HD vs only "up to 1.7" on blu-ray.
That will be audible on even an average system

 

[avaserfi]

If we are talking HD formats shouldn't we be speaking in terms of their HD material meaning the TrueHD tracks on the discs not the compressed ones? Who cares about the Dolby Digital Plus tracks on the HD discs when there are TrueHD tracks that contain even less compression and are equal.

Also, if you look at the current trend in BD movies it isn't MPEG2 its at least MPEG4 or VC-1.

In the end the quality between BD and HD DVD is basically the same its the studio support that will drive the war to an end so I am done with this pointless debate.

 

[BMXTRIX]

keep in mind that HD DVD has Better Quality than Blue-Ray
Every review I have read comparing the same movie in both formats says the HD DVD is better quality. If you look at the Dolby web site, the Audio specs are much better with HD DVD than Blue Ray. Also, last month, the #1 selling DVD player on Amazon was the Toshiba HD-A2
Blue Ray uses MPEG2 for Video, that is NOT as good as the VC-1 that HD DVD uses for video

Detroit - I'm not sure why you turned a question about HD DVD into your personal pedalstal to spout lies about Blu-ray. If that's what you want to do, then I will happily hand your *** to you...

1. From day one, Blu-ray has delivered uncompress, lossless audio on way more titles than HD DVD has ever managed. It continues to do so on a regular basis. Blu-ray audio, on average, is superior than HD DVD.

2. Dual format studios have been mastering for the lowest common denominator. This means HD DVD, then transferring to Blu-ray. Studios which have stepped up and mastered for both Blu-ray and HD DVD separately (Paramount I believe) have shown as good, or better results on the Blu-ray title. If studios were really mastering for Blu-ray instead of HD DVD, you would see audio quality cut, extras removed, and video bit rates lowered to allow the film to fit on a 30GB disc. This is a studio decsion, not format specific.

3. VC-1 is superior to nothing if the bitrates and headroom is available and utilized properly. MPEG2, VC-1, and AVC have all shown incredible results on Blu-ray, while VC-1 must be used on HD DVD due to the lack of space.

4. Since inception, not one Blu-ray supporting studio has gone neutral or switched sides. Paramount and WB both went neutral before launch towards Blu-ray and in this last week a couple of foreign distributors ... maybe even more, have announced support for Blu-ray after being HD DVD exclusive.

5. This week, Target, BJs Warehouse, and Woolworth all announced that they would exclusively be carrying Blu-ray in their stores.

While you can talk about image quality all you want, when viewing all discs available on both formats, and taking their results as an average, Blu-ray and HD DVD produce nearly identical results... But, at the end of this year, Blu-ray will still have Disney, Fox, and Sony studios exclusively, while HD DVD will only have Universal exclusive.

So please, don't make HD DVD out to be more than it is, or better than it is. It is a very good looking format which has no other company, besides Toshiba, making HD DVD only stand alone players, and it has one exclusive studio that is rumored to be under exclusive contract only until the end of this year.

The only thing HD DVD really has is price, and when Toshiba subsidizes players, it is an artifical price which has locked out other manufacturers.

Want proof of price?

Samsung has a Blu-ray player that is $600 right now.
Later this year they will have a dual format player and it adds $450.00 to the price of their entire Blu-ray player to add HD DVD. That's $450 for just the technology to run HD DVD, not the cost of the case, electronics, etc. HD DVD costs no less to manufacture than Blu-ray, Toshiba is simply willing to subsidize to gain market share.

But, what happens in two years when Blu-ray players hit $120 and HD DVD players are $100? Do you think consumers will give up 40% of the studios just to save 20 bucks? They aren't doing it now, and they won't be doing it then.

 

[Tex-amp]

At first Blu was using MPEG2s, hence the need for more storage space to get the PQ, now most use the VC-1 that HD DVD uses.

As to which has better PQ it pretty much comes down to transfer quality.

Target is not an exclusive as Sony announced but them buying an end cap. I've never heard of BJ's Warehouse or Woolworths so I don't know what that means.

Sales of both formats combined is less then 1 percent of movies. The arguing over which format has the bigger slice of nothing is stupid. If you just don't have to have it wait until after the holidays to see what happens. Blu-ray at this point is PS3(Play Station 3). I'd really advise waiting until after the holidays to see what stand alone sales are for the two formats.

Toshiba and now HP are including HD DVD drives in some of their notebooks. Starting in 08 all Toshiba notebooks will include an HD DVD drive. That HP is including a HD DVD drive in a notebook makes me very suspicious of the claim that they cost $450.

Only 30% of US households have an HDTV for the HD movie formats.

As far as I'm concerned the HD format battle is just beginning.

 

[BMXTRIX]

At first Blu was using MPEG2s, hence the need for more storage space to get the PQ, now most use the VC-1 that HD DVD uses.

As to which has better PQ it pretty much comes down to transfer quality.

Target is not an exclusive as Sony announced but them buying an end cap. I've never heard of BJ's Warehouse or Woolworths so I don't know what that means.

Sales of both formats combined is less then 1 percent of movies. The arguing over which format has the bigger slice of nothing is stupid. If you just don't have to have it wait until after the holidays to see what happens. Blu-ray at this point is PS3(Play Station 3). I'd really advise waiting until after the holidays to see what stand alone sales are for the two formats.

Toshiba and now HP are including HD DVD drives in some of their notebooks. Starting in 08 all Toshiba notebooks will include an HD DVD drive. That HP is including a HD DVD drive in a notebook makes me very suspicious of the claim that they cost $450.

Only 30% of US households have an HDTV for the HD movie formats.

As far as I'm concerned the HD format battle is just beginning.

Good words, and I tend to recommend my clients away from both formats unless they really want a PS3 for both gaming and movie playback.

But, I'm not sure how much 1% matters or doesn't matter. That is, how much of the VHS market had DivX and DVD penetrated before DivX was considered dead? How long did it take?

Those are real questions I don't know the answer to.

But, I do know that if Universal should go neutral then there will be almost no reason to buy HD DVD anymore except price. That is, a person will be able to get 100% of the movies for $500 (likely less) or 40% of the movies for $300 (likely less). But, if they want all the movies, they must spent the extra for Blu-ray. The longer they wait to buy, the closer those prices will be and I think next year we may see some studio movement which affects things.

FYI: Target does not sell HD DVD stand alone players in their stores and has not made an annoucement to do so. So, not only will there be Blu-ray in the stores, they will be exclusive in stores as stand alone players. They will continue, as they have done all along, continue to offer HD DVD online for sale.

BJs I believe is East Coast only and Woolworths is big in some sections of Europe. Neither of these are earth shaking, but it isn't likely to see a BB/CC/Wal-Mart official exclusivity announcement without first hearing from smaller companies picking a direction.

 

[Tex-amp]

I'd say DivX biggest issue was it was only in CircuitCity(?). You can't try to replace the Blockbuster rental model unless you are as convenient or more so. If you could have gotten them at Blockbuster and not had to worry about returning them who knows how it would have turned out.

Target sells and will continue to sell the X-box HD DVD add-on. When PS3 is done clearing out the 60 GB and onto 80GB back at $499 you'll be able to get a x-box plus the HD DVD, with the x-box game library, for less than the PS3.

I don't see Universal going neutral at this point as there just isn't any money in HD movies regardless of format.

Now for public perception Blu-ray is destroying HD DVD.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I guess one of the latest PS3 rumors I have heard is that there will be a follow up 40GB PS3 without media slots/wi-fi for $400 nearing the holidays. With the willingness for game system subsidization and the drastic drop in Blu-ray production costs it would be possible.

 

[Leprkon]

Detroit - I'm not sure why you turned a question about HD DVD into your personal pedalstal to spout lies about Blu-ray. If that's what you want to do, then I will happily hand your *** to you...


4. Since inception, not one Blu-ray supporting studio has gone neutral or switched sides. Paramount and WB both went neutral before launch towards Blu-ray and in this last week a couple of foreign distributors ... maybe even more, have announced support for Blu-ray after being HD DVD exclusive.

I find it interesting that a major BR manufacturer has gone nuetral.. indicating they do not think BR has won much of anything...