SVS PB12-NSD coupled with Hsu MBM-12????

[speakerman39]

Has any member(s) here that own a SVS PB12-NSD sub used one with a Hsu MBM-12 midbass module? If so, how has this worked for you? The reason I am asking is because I have been seriously thinking about getting the Hsu MBM-12 to go along w/my SVS PB12-NSD. Thus far, the PB12 has impressed me down deep when watching a movie BUT have noticed it does not perform as well when listening to music. Unfortunately, I have learned that a sub such as the PB12 is tuned to 18 Hz but comes at a price in terms of output in the 35-80 Hz range. That is, the PB12 does not give me that quick and punchy articulation that I have come to know when listening to my favorite music cds. However, when watcing a movie the PB12 kicks as*. Just need more punch in the midbass area that is imho paramount for musical applications. I have experimented with room placement and X-over frequency, and etc. but only to no avail. Would the Hsu MBM-12 solve this problem for me OR would getting another PB12 fix my problem? Any other recommendations? Feel free to comment as I need YOUR input.

 

[Warpdrv]

Have you tried to take the SVS out of the 18hz tune, and try a higher tune..

With a lower tuning, you will sacrifice headroom, and possibly mid bass response... Also, what size room are you working with, Im sure you have posted it, but what is the size of your room ?

As I have stated before, I don't subscribe to the MBM module, as I think your speakers should be able to handle down to the sub xover...

Im sure more will chime in on this for you....

 

[Tomorrow]

Maybe Majorloser will chime in with his opinion. But I think I recall him saying that even with his 2 Hsu HO's, the MBM made a large and delightful difference in the bass experience.

 

[Matt34]

Maybe Majorloser will chime in with his opinion. But I think I recall him saying that even with his 2 Hsu HO's, the MBM made a large and delightful difference in the bass experience.

That's what he told me and his mains are no slouches either.

 

[mike c]

Have you tried to take the SVS out of the 18hz tune, and try a higher tune..

the single driver NSD is not tunable ... I think.

 

[speakerman39]

Have you tried to take the SVS out of the 18hz tune, and try a higher tune..

With a lower tuning, you will sacrifice headroom, and possibly mid bass response... Also, what size room are you working with, Im sure you have posted it, but what is the size of your room ?

As I have stated before, I don't subscribe to the MBM module, as I think your speakers should be able to handle down to the sub xover...

Im sure more will chime in on this for you....

Hi Warp-thanks for posting. The PB12-NSD does not have variable tuning. However, I have thought about sealing the 4" port to see if this would help. But, not sure if that would damage the 12" NSD driver. I am more than happy with the PB12-NSD ht performance but find it lacking when listening to music. I should have gotten a sub that offered a better balance of the two extremes. Personally, I really dont need a sub to play extremely low but do like good flat extension. My preference has been and will always be on music performance-it is here that I am not as happy. BTW, my room is just a tad bit under 2000 ft^3. I currently have the PB12-NSD placed between my mains because of using a 100 HZ X-over point. The PB12 blends better with my mains at that X-over point. When I had the PB12-NSD in the front left corner I used a 80 Hz X-over point.

 

[speakerman39]

Maybe Majorloser will chime in with his opinion. But I think I recall him saying that even with his 2 Hsu HO's, the MBM made a large and delightful difference in the bass experience.

Thanks for posting. Yeah, it would be nice if he would chime in. However, I am also looking for someone that has specifically used the Hsu MBM-12 with a SVS PB12-NSD OR even a PB10-NSD. So, if you are out there please share your thoughts/impressions. It would be much appreciated.

 

[speakerman39]

That's what he told me and his mains are no slouches either.

Hmmmmmm................interesting. What is he using for his mains? Dual HO's w/a MBM-12 would have to be stellar to say the least.

 

[speakerman39]

the single driver NSD is not tunable ... I think.

That is correct BUT what if I plugged the 4" port. Would sealing the cabinet allow for better midbass w/o damaging the 12 " NSD driver? I have not tried this because I prefer to error on caution. Please share your thoughts.

 

[mike c]

if you search Ilkka's subwoofer tests (at hometheatershack.com) look for his PB10 tests, I think he tested it with the port plugged.

 

[j_garcia]

That is correct BUT what if I plugged the 4" port. Would sealing the cabinet allow for better midbass w/o damaging the 12 " NSD driver? I have not tried this because I prefer to error on caution. Please share your thoughts.

I would call SVS on this one. I'm sure it can take it, but they will know best. You don't need to "seal" it, just plug the port.

 

[speakerman39]

I would call SVS on this one. I'm sure it can take it, but they will know best. You don't need to "seal" it, just plug the port.

Okay John will do. My PB12-NSD did not come with any port plugs. Do you know where I could get one? Could always use and old sock or two.........LOL!!!!!!

 

[j_garcia]

Socks are what I've used in the past.... No, they do not normally include a plug, so I would ask them their thoughts on what to use and if it is advisable for the NSD (probably will be fine). If the port is the same size as the ones used on the Pluses and the NSD/V, then they have plugs that you can use.

Hey, who is playing with the colors?

 

[speakerman39]

Socks are what I've used in the past.... No, they do not normally include a plug, so I would ask them their thoughts on what to use and if it is advisable for the NSD (probably will be fine). If the port is the same size as the ones used on the Pluses and the NSD/V, then they have plugs that you can use.

Hey, who is playing with the colors?

I will go ahead and give SVS a call. Who knows, plugging a port is all I need to do. Thanks for your help John.

 

[majorloser]

Hmmmmmm................interesting. What is he using for his mains? Dual HO's w/a MBM-12 would have to be stellar to say the least.

OK, OK, I get the hint!

I have Canton Ergo towers and center channel for my mains. Like Matt34 and Tomorrow stated, they aren't bad. I replaced two 500W 12" subs with Dayton Quattro drivers/passives tranducers and a 12" Canton sub (three sub total) with the two HSU VTF-3HO's with turbos. I added the MBM-12 earlier this year.

The biggest change that both my wife and I can see is there is much more "tactile" bass with the MBM-12 located right next to the seating position. It take a large load off the "true" subwoofers by releaving them of everything above 50 Hz. The HO's crossovers are set at 50 Hz and the MBM has a natural frequency roll off at 50 Hz. This natural roll off at 50 Hz is what makes the MBM different than a "true" subwoofer.

Do I really need the two HO's with the turbos in my fairly small theater, "NO".
But it's nice to know I can shake everything off the walls on the other side of the house when needed

 

[speakerman39]

OK, OK, I get the hint!

I have Canto Ergo towers and center channel for my mains. Like Matt34 and Tomorrow stated, they aren't bad. I replaced two 500W 12" subs with Dayton Quattro drivers/passives tranducers and a 12" Canton sub (three sub total) with the two HSU VTF-3HO's with turbos. I added the MBM-12 earlier this year.

The biggest change that both my wife and I can see is there is much more "tactile" bass with the MBM-12 located right next to the seating position. It take a large load off the "true" subwoofers by releaving them of everything above 50 Hz. The HO's crossovers are set at 50 Hz and the MBM has a natural frequency roll off at 50 Hz. This natural roll off at 50 Hz is what makes the MBM different than a "true" subwoofer.

Do I really need the two HO's with the turbos in my fairly small theater, "NO".
But it's nice to know I can shake everything off the walls on the other side of the house when needed

Hey thanks for posting Major. I bet your set-up kicks as*. Sounds like to me the Hsu MBM-12 just may do the trick for me. So, if I am understanding you correctly all I need to do is use a 1M2F "Y" adapter run one side into the Hsu MBM-12 midbass module and the other to the PB12-NSD input and use the X-over on my PB12 set to 50 Hz. In other words, the Hsu MBM-12 will play say from 80 Hz down to 50 Hz while my PB12-NSD will play from 50 Hz and down. How much output will the Hsu MBM-12 have below 50 Hz since it naturally rolls off? This is crucial because that way there would be some cancellation between where the Hsu MBM-12 rolls off naturally and where the PB12 kicks in from 50 Hz and down. Would there be any advantage to ascertaining some digital time correction here? I ask because it is quite evident you as well as others here know what you are talking about-or so it seems anyways..........LOL!!!!!

 

[majorloser]

Hey thanks for posting Major. I bet your set-up kicks as*. Sounds like to me the Hsu MBM-12 just may do the trick for me. So, if I am understanding you correctly all I need to do is use a 1M2F "Y" adapter run one side into the Hsu MBM-12 midbass module and the other to the PB12-NSD input and use the X-over on my PB12 set to 50 Hz. In other words, the Hsu MBM-12 will play say from 80 Hz down to 50 Hz while my PB12-NSD will play from 50 Hz and down. How much output will the Hsu MBM-12 have below 50 Hz since it naturally rolls off? This is crucial because that way there would be some cancellation between where the Hsu MBM-12 rolls off naturally and where the PB12 kicks in from 50 Hz and down. Would there be any advantage to ascertaining some digital time correction here? I ask because it is quite evident you as well as others here know what you are talking about-or so it seems anyways..........LOL!!!!!

The secret to the setup is placement. First thing to do is find the best place for your SVS sub. Some people claim to use the "sub crawl" method. I don't want to get into that now. Just do a search to find it since it takes awhile to describe. The next thing to work on is placement of the MBM. It should be placed as close to the seated position as possible. Behind or to the side of the seats.

You then run the LFE from the receiver to both units using a wye adapter. Set the LFE crossover in your receiver (or pre/pro) to 80 Hz. Set the crossover on the MBM to maximum. Then set the crossover on your SVS to 50 Hz.

Now the hard part CALIBRATION

>In my case, I set the LFE output on my pre/pro to 0.0 dB. It's a + or - for me from -8.0 dB to +8.0 dB.
>Turned off the subs and left the MBM "on".
>I then ran some test tones from 80 Hz to 50 Hz and adjusted the gain on the MBM level to 75 dB.
>Next I shut "off" the MBM and turned "on" the sub.
>Ran some test tones from 50 Hz to 20 Hz and set the gain on the sub level to 75 dB.
>After they were both set I turned them both "on" and adjusted the total LFE output using the pre/pro setting to 75 dB.

If you have a fairly large room, some added delay for the subwoofer might be needed since it's further away. The pre/pro (receiver) delay should be set for the distance of the closest item, in this case the MBM.

I'm thinking about moving to one of the Behringer devices (BFD). This will add the delay for the subs and attenuate the bass frequency peaks.

 

[speakerman39]

The secret to the setup is placement. First thing to do is find the best place for your SVS sub. Some people claim to use the "sub crawl" method. I don't want to get into that now. Just do a search to find it since it takes awhile to describe. The next thing to work on is placement of the MBM. It should be placed as close to the seated position as possible. Behind or to the side of the seats.

You then run the LFE from the receiver to both units using a wye adapter. Set the LFE crossover in your receiver (or pre/pro) to 80 Hz. Set the crossover on the MBM to maximum. Then set the crossover on your SVS to 50 Hz.

Now the hard part CALIBRATION

>In my case, I set the LFE output on my pre/pro to 0.0 dB. It's a + or - for me from -8.0 dB to +8.0 dB.
>Turned off the subs and left the MBM "on".
>I then ran some test tones from 80 Hz to 50 Hz and adjusted the gain on the MBM level to 75 dB.
>Next I shut "off" the MBM and turned "on" the sub.
>Ran some test tones from 50 Hz to 20 Hz and set the gain on the sub level to 75 dB.
>After they were both set I turned them both "on" and adjusted the total LFE output using the pre/pro setting to 75 dB.

If you have a fairly large room, some added delay for the subwoofer might be needed since it's further away. The pre/pro (receiver) delay should be set for the distance of the closest item, in this case the MBM.

I'm thinking about moving to one of the Behringer devices (BFD). This will add the delay for the subs and attenuate the bass frequency peaks.

Thanks for the info major BUT I have not bought a Hsu MBM-12 just yet. I am seriously thinking about it. Heck, right now my funds are not only rather limited but very tight as well. I am familiar w/the crawl method with respect to sub placement. I have already experimented w/the possible placements and as such have the PB12 placed between my mains. Never really got much improvement regardless of where I placed the PB12. I will say that in the front left corner while placed closer to the walls the low end rumble was a bit more noticeable. However, I am not after gaining anything down low as the PB12 is stellar in that respect-what I am after is more punch and articulation above the 30-35 Hz. More specifically, in the 60-80 Hz range where it is crucial for superb musical reproduction.

 

[Sheep]

Before you go buying midrange accelerators, I would suggest different placements, as well as settings.

I don't know about you, but the ouput at 18hz seems similar to the output between 30 and 80Hz.

If I were you, I'd get an SMS-1 and have a flat in-room response. Then get some acoustic treatments. The sub is quiet because of room reflections.

SheepStar

 

[speakerman39]

Before you go buying midrange accelerators, I would suggest different placements, as well as settings.

I don't know about you, but the ouput at 18hz seems similar to the output between 30 and 80Hz.

If I were you, I'd get an SMS-1 and have a flat in-room response. Then get some acoustic treatments. The sub is quiet because of room reflections.

SheepStar

Not sure what happened to my post BUT I will give you a quick respone as it is getting late. Not sure if room relections is my main problem because I used to own a Mirage S12 and it did quite well musically speaking. In fact, I have my PB12-NSD in the same exact location as I did the Mirage S12. And, I can say w/o a doubt that the Mirage S12 had more output above 35 Hz and was much more articulate and punchy sounding when listening to music. The Mirage S12 was also very good with ht BUT the PB12-NSD is better down low. I also used to own (2) Acoustic Research 8" subs that were very musical and not bad with ht applications. Therefore, I do not believe the PB12-NSD has less ouput in the 60-80 range Hz because of room reflections BUT due to having an 18 Hz tune which results in less output in the 30-80 Hz range. I am by no means an expert but this is how it has been explained to me by some of the experts I have talked to as well as read for myself. Have any other ideas of what it could be??? Thanks for your help.