Upgrade or modify speakers

[Rickster71]

Hello All,
Has anyone ever tried upgrading or modifying their speakers?
I saw the site I've linked below, a few years ago.
They do upgrades, etc.

http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=14

I've refoamed drivers, and re-capped crossovers, but these guys have an anechoic chamber, and could chart a 'before' and 'after'.
It always sounded interesting to me, and I wondered if anyone's tried it, or had any experience with GR research before?
Thanks, Rick

 

[vman71]

I have upgraded all my speakers crossover networks. I actually do it as a side business too. Most importantly, to your question, it depends on your speakers. Generally, speakers benefit (some more than others) from upgrading the crossover networks and better internal wiring.

All of my speakers benefitted greatly from upgrading the crossover networks. I have never had a single customer say that they didn't hear a very nice sonic improvement after I upgraded their crossover networks.

I believe in crossover upgrades and other mods more than any after-market interconnect, power cord and/or speaker cabling. All of this coming from my personal experience.

 

[WmAx]

I have upgraded all my speakers crossover networks. I actually do it as a side business too. Most importantly, to your question, it depends on your speakers. Generally, speakers benefit (some more than others) from upgrading the crossover networks and better internal wiring.

All of my speakers benefitted greatly from upgrading the crossover networks. I have never had a single customer say that they didn't hear a very nice sonic improvement after I upgraded their crossover networks.

I believe in crossover upgrades and other mods more than any after-market interconnect, power cord and/or speaker cabling. All of this coming from my personal experience.

First, please define what you mean by upgrading the crossover. Modified response targets? Upgraded components(of the same values)?

How will replacing wire make an audible difference(unless it is defective with poor connections or of an extreme small guage, for example, 24 or 26 AWG)?

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

Hello All,
Has anyone ever tried upgrading or modifying their speakers?
I saw the site I've linked below, a few years ago.
They do upgrades, etc.

http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=14

I've refoamed drivers, and re-capped crossovers, but these guys have an anechoic chamber, and could chart a 'before' and 'after'.
It always sounded interesting to me, and I wondered if anyone's tried it, or had any experience with GR research before?
Thanks, Rick

One can modify most speakers in the correct manner, and it will usually result in improvement. This depends solely on the speaker system's present design. Most speakers can yield vast improvements by modifying the internals of the cabinet system to reduce panel resonance and replace the usually useless acoustic damping materials used stock with high quality material such as high density fiberglass board or high density mineral wool board. The crossover can often be improved, but this does require measurement equipment and knowledge of how to use such equipment, unless you can find a pre-designed improved crossover for a specific system.

-Chris

 

[vman71]

First, please define what you mean by upgrading the crossover. Modified response targets? Upgraded components(of the same values)?

How will replacing wire make an audible difference(unless it is defective with poor connections or of an extreme small guage, for example, 24 or 26 AWG)?

-Chris

For me and what I personally do, upgrading means:
- One-for-One parts swap with better quality parts (i.e., cheap electrolytic to a polypropelene) and usually trying to stay with the original value. Better values are used where appropriate (5% tolerance resistor to a 1% non-inductive resistor)

Q: Response targets.
A: Response targets are my ears, meaning, if I can tell/more importanly "hear" if it does sound better, then I'm on the mark. That's why I made my earlier statement that upgrading crossovers is better than any interconnect.....because in my experience, it is a very noticeable audible difference. (The K.I.S.S. principle here - hearing tells me everything I need to know)

Q: How will internal wire make an audible difference.
A: Let's face it, most if all the internals of a speaker are made with the cheapest of parts in most cases. Every little bit helps, while the internal wire doesn't make a big difference it helps. It's a very easy thing to change out and if the crossover is already out (including the internal wiring), it just makes sense to replace it. Crap wire or crap parts are just what they are, crap. Even if you replace it with something slightly better, the positives add up.

 

[WmAx]

For me and what I personally do, upgrading means:
- One-for-One parts swap with better quality parts (i.e., cheap electrolytic to a polypropelene) and usually trying to stay with the original value. Better values are used where appropriate (5% tolerance resistor to a 1% non-inductive resistor)

While I do not support the use of electrolytic capacitors in extremely value sensitive parts of a circuit(they tend to drift in value after a decade or so), there is no substantial evidence to suggest that they will impart any true coloration if they are currently in good condition and have not drifted in value substantially. Of course, if you change out the electrolytic capacitors in old speakers, there is a real chance that you could cause audible difference just by restoring the original values to factory specification.

Q: Response targets.
A: Response targets are my ears, meaning, if I can tell/more importanly "hear" if it does sound better, then I'm on the mark.

Indeed. But what process do you use to determine what you hear? If the trials are not blinded (and proper number of trials and statistical analysis is not performed) then the field of psychology strongly suggests that the actual confidence level of your result is low.

-Chris

 

[vman71]

While I do not support the use of electrolytic capacitors in extremely value sensitive parts of a circuit(they tend to drift in value after a decade or so), there is no substantial evidence to suggest that they will impart any true coloration if they are currently in good condition and have not drifted in value substantially. Of course, if you change out the electrolytic capacitors in old speakers, there is a real chance that you could cause audible difference just by restoring the original values to factory specification.

Example - (both brand new, within specs) A polypropelene will perform better than the same value electrolytic. Kind of like comparing 93 octane to 87 octane, the 93 will provide better performance.

Indeed. But what process do you use to determine what you hear? If the trials are not blinded (and proper number of trials and statistical analysis is not performed) then the field of psychology strongly suggests that the actual confidence level of your result is low.

Hearing in general and hearing memory are very subjective, so you have a point. I just approach this from an honest perspective and using my best hearing judgement. I must not be off because, not a single customer of mine has ever said that they didn't hear better sonic performance after the upgrade.

I don't upgrade crossovers to rip people off or to sell them something that I know to be false. They can look at my own equipment and know my speakers are the same thing as they are purchasing. And I LOVE the after results of upgrading my speakers.

We are just talking about two different ways of getting from point A to point B. I'm a person of honesty and integrity, the values my parents and the military instilled in me. If I recommend something, irrespective if it costs a penny, I'm going to be honest. Based on that, my confidence level is high.

 

[g_hause]

Decent speakers tend to be designed for the drivers that they will be using. If you have an old beater pair, throw some Dynaudio woofers in them for fun. It's an easy thing to do and it might just make you happy.

 

[Sheep]

Example - (both brand new, within specs) A polypropelene will perform better than the same value electrolytic. Kind of like comparing 93 octane to 87 octane, the 93 will provide better performance.

Actually, that is a bogus statement. The higher octane gas is for higher combustion engines. it will actually perform worse in an engine designed for 87.

If you don't measure you're results, there is no proof that anything positive happened.

SheepStar