Pro-amps vs HT amps?

[jbrillo]

Can someone explain to me how pro-amps differ from home theater amps?

I've read of people using pro-amps as a cheaper alternative to HT amps and was wondering if they are truly comparable or not. I don't know if there are any technical differences between the two. All I know is that they're both amplifiers, but would it be better to use one or the other for your home theater? Just wondering. Thanks.

 

[OttoMatic]

Hi there,

It's my opinion, that, in general, there's no reason why you couldn't use a pro amp in your HT; many people do. They supply lots of power for their price, and are usually very durable.

Depending on the make and model, there may be connection differences, but that's easy to overcome with cabling and adapters, if need be.

One thing to look out for -- some have fans that can be annoying if they're in the same room with the listener. I'm using a Behringer EP2500 for my IB sub, and it's unbearable when in the same room. I just bury it in the basement now, so it's no bother to me in the living room.

Although they are reasonably priced compared to some audiophile grade amps, you may still be able to do better with a "normal" HT amp. I bought a Sunfire Cinema Grand from AudiogoN for $863. After paying $300 for a full overhaul at the factory, I'm in for about $1200. That's a 200x5 amp. If you're paying $200 for pro amps, and you need five of them, well, you're pretty close. Just depends on the deals you're able to find and what you want to get out of it.

 

[jbrillo]

Thanks for the reply. One more quick question.....do you know if they're internally made up of the same things???

 

[OttoMatic]

Thanks for the reply. One more quick question.....do you know if they're internally made up of the same things???

In general, I would say that any amplifier could be different than another. Components, design, power supplies and other pieces of the puzzle could all be of very different qualities. That said, they are conceptually similar.

If you are not going to be critically listening to two-channel music, I think you will be OK with either.

 

[fmw]

I think they are fine even if you are listening critically to two channel music. I've used pro audio amps in home theater before. Just get something that isn't too powerful to avoid the fan noise issue Ottomatic mentions.

They are very much like home amplifiers in terms of design and specification but they are rugged and beefy because they are often moved around a lot. They are often driven hard. They should put power supplies in the home audio gear like these amps have. They perform as accurately as the home audio amps do. They will play recorded music from 20hz to 20khz just like they will amplify a PA system or a musical instrument and do it as well as a high end home audio amp.

I'm sure it is a discontinued model but I used to have a QSC USA400 amp driving the mains in my HT. No cooling fan at all. It was 100 watts per channel, heavy, accurate and sounded the same as the high end home audio amps. Crown - a local company to me - makes some very nice power amps. They made some powerful class A amps for high end audio years ago but the Stereophile magazine reviewers drove them out of the business. They couldn't stand the concept of a pro audio amp driving a $20,000 pair of speakers - even though they could drive a 1 ohm load accurately without working up a sweat.

You will need to make up custom internconnect cables from your preamp, however, because they don't use RCA jacks. Most use phono plugs and jacks so you will have to make up some RCA to Phono interconnects. I just cut one end from the RCA interconnects and soldered on phono plugs. Otherwise it is a painless and effective way to drive speakers accurately.

I've gone back to using a receiver for the simplicity and lower cost of it but, if I were to return to using separates, I wouldn't even consider buying home audio amps for home theater. I'm serious. Pro audio amps are cheaper, more reliable, stronger and just as accurate in their ability to amplify.

 

[OttoMatic]

I think they are fine even if you are listening critically to two channel music.

Right, I didn't necessarily mean to imply that I think one type is better over the other. Indeed, one of the items on my list of things to do is to do double-blind testing between my $200 Behringer and a $5K BAT. While I believe it's possible that there are some differences sonically between amps, I cannot yet say for sure from first hand experience.

fmw is right, there's really not a good reason not to if you're looking for lots of good, reliable power.

 

[fmw]

Right, I didn't necessarily mean to imply that I think one type is better over the other. Indeed, one of the items on my list of things to do is to do double-blind testing between my $200 Behringer and a $5K BAT. While I believe it's possible that there are some differences sonically between amps, I cannot yet say for sure from first hand experience.

fmw is right, there's really not a good reason not to if you're looking for lots of good, reliable power.

I would bet good money that, if neither is driven to unreasonable levels, there won't be an audible difference, if you can level match them accurately. The meaningul difference between amps is their ability to drive difficult loads hard. Obviously, when they clip, they all sound awful.

 

[jinjuku]

I used to drive my 2.1 setup years ago with Crown DC-300A. The sound was clean. It didn't sound any better or any worse than any Adcom or NAD amp that I had heard at the time at normal listening levels. The Adcom and NAD couldn't keep up with it when you turned the volume up though.

That was a hard hitting amp when you put the volume to 11. Thing was made in 1976... still wish I had it. But at 70+ lbs got tired of moving it

 

[kicknsupra]

i alway did like pro amps well the good ones anyway
i love my qsc
so much power and clean they even have a thx certification for theaters
i biamped my mains i like them so much
i love haveing a ton of power with the 2 amps i have so much head room its crazy
i have mx2000a runing my bosepro bins
if you do look at pro amps take a look at qsc they are not cheap but they are some of the best pro amps you can get
i got all mine used so look around
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/kicknsupra/IMG_0293.jpg

 

[cornelius]

There are some great pro amps out there, one of my favorites being McIntosh. Yup. I was in The Hit Factory (big NY studio at the time) and I peered around the SSL board and saw big blue meters. They were driving the big Urei-s without breaking a sweat. I guess that makes them pro amps!

Where I work now, we have a couple of Crown amps, and they sound much better than the cheapo Samson/Alesis amps that we also have. I'd happily put one of the Crowns into a home system. It's hard to believe that Stereophile could drive them out, they seemed to really like the Westlake monitors, which was just a studio monitor in a nice box!

 

[zildjian]

IYou will need to make up custom internconnect cables from your preamp, however, because they don't use RCA jacks. Most use phono plugs and jacks so you will have to make up some RCA to Phono interconnects. I just cut one end from the RCA interconnects and soldered on phono plugs. Otherwise it is a painless and effective way to drive speakers accurately.

No need to cut or solder anything, just use a RCA Female to 1/4" phono mono male adapter to plug into the amp if it uses phono only inputs and keep your rca's intake.

 

[highfihoney]

There are very few real differences between pro amplifiers & home amplifiers,the main difference being that most hi power pro amps use a cooling fan instead of convection cooling.

If you do the right research you can save a ton of cash by running pro amps.

 

[fmw]

It's hard to believe that Stereophile could drive them out, they seemed to really like the Westlake monitors, which was just a studio monitor in a nice box!

Hard to say what the motivations might be behind the activities. What they did was pan the Crown 250 wpc Class A power amp. Since what Stereophile does is riddled with subjectivity, beliefs, hopes and placebo effect, they are capable of about anything. Might have been a personal thing or a political thing. You never know. What I know, though, is that the Crown was an excellent amplifer - rugged, powerful and clean as a whistle. It sounded just like other 250 wpc Class A power amps in the high end audio industry.

The sad thing is that people actually base purchase decisions on the subjective opinions of the Stereophile reviewers. When these guys pan something, it stops selling. They are a big fish in a small pond with a lot of influence. Crown is an average fish in a larger pond and I don't think they enjoyed the high end audio business, particularly after being unfairly panned. I can imagine them flipping the finger at Stereophile and going on about their business which is making great amps for the recording and musical performance businesses. At any rate, they are appreciated by musicians and recording engineers all over the world.

 

[Sheep]

In general, I would say that any amplifier could be different than another. Components, design, power supplies and other pieces of the puzzle could all be of very different qualities. That said, they are conceptually similar.

If you are not going to be critically listening to two-channel music, I think you will be OK with either.

Uh, no. Power is power. It doesn't matter what the amp is made off, etc etc. 200 watt home and vs 200 watt pro amp with every output spec similar = SAME SOUND.

SheepStar

 

[OttoMatic]

Uh, no. Power is power. It doesn't matter what the amp is made off, etc etc. 200 watt home and vs 200 watt pro amp with every output spec similar = SAME SOUND.

SheepStar

Have you done double-blind testing yourself? I haven't, but I intend to, before making such bold statements.

Do all speakers sound the same if they can "handle" 100 W, or whatever?

 

[jinjuku]

Uh, no. Power is power. It doesn't matter what the amp is made off, etc etc. 200 watt home and vs 200 watt pro amp with every output spec similar = SAME SOUND.

SheepStar

Ok, you get ONE 'I didn't say something asinine' per year. You may want to cash it in right now.

 

[fmw]

Uh, no. Power is power. It doesn't matter what the amp is made off, etc etc. 200 watt home and vs 200 watt pro amp with every output spec similar = SAME SOUND.

SheepStar

If you take two amplifiers with the same output power specs but one has a stronger power supply that can supply more current to the output stage, that amp will have more headroom. In other words it can be driven harder before it begins to clip. Clipping sounds pretty bad, even for a short period of time because it is a serious distortion of the wave form. So while your statement might be a fair statement much of the time in most circumstances, it isn't true all the time in all circumstances.

 

[gmichael]

Uh, no. Power is power. It doesn't matter what the amp is made off, etc etc. 200 watt home and vs 200 watt pro amp with every output spec similar = SAME SOUND.

SheepStar

Whoops. Quick, find that delete button. Ah, never mind. It's too late.

 

[highfihoney]

If you take two amplifiers with the same output power specs but one has a stronger power supply that can supply more current to the output stage, that amp will have more headroom. In other words it can be driven harder before it begins to clip. Clipping sounds pretty bad, even for a short period of time because it is a serious distortion of the wave form. So while your statement might be a fair statement much of the time in most circumstances, it isn't true all the time in all circumstances.

You are 100% correct,the problem with specs & engineering is that it is impossible to account for all variables ,with the speaker system being the biggest variable of them all,dbt's are as meaningless to determine differences in sound as are sighted listening tests ,because they both rely on human auditory skills & memory,both of which are different from person to person & are not infailble.

The only proper way to determine differences in amplifiers is by measuring the output from the speaker with each amplifier,done this way differences will show up .

But..............can you hear a difference

 

[Sheep]

Before you guys post, you should REALLLY read the post properly in which you're replying to. Here, I'll put it in bold. It'll be like an audiophile pop-up book.

"Uh, no. Power is power. It doesn't matter what the amp is made off, etc etc. 200 watt home and vs 200 watt pro amp with every output spec similar = SAME SOUND."

SheepStar