Sub suggestions

[nick1000000]

I love my LPA-1. It makes my old speakers from the HT in a box sound amazing. Both the pre amp and amp are great bargans for only $899 (no tax or shipping). I hate their customers service. They never call me back or answer after 3pm PST. But I havent had a problem yet. I would really recommend it.

 

[j_garcia]

The minis only go down to 70Hz. Barely able to allow for a 80Hz subwoofer crossover\slope.

Ever heard a pair??? I think you are confusing their specs in a big way:

This is the rated -3dB point in a typical room.

Low-Frequency Extension* 43 Hz (DIN)

THIS:

Frequency Response:
On-Axis
±2 dB from 70 Hz - 20 kHz
30° Off-Axis ±2 dB from 70 Hz - 15 kHz

is the accuracy over a given range. I had a friend comment that he thought I had my sub on when I had them playing full range when I owned them. They don't go really low, but it is lower than the average bookshelf.

Respectable would be beyond what you could ask of a single 6.5" driver and a 13" x 7" x 11" cabinet.

Um, my A/V-1s are -3dB at 55Hz and they use a single 5 1/4 mid bass... and the cabinets are a bit smaller than the Minis.

 

[nick1000000]

I've listened to them many times before I decided and thought they had a good low end. The sub I tested them with was not that good so I could not compare.

 

[nick1000000]

Okay, I have e-mailed both HSU and SVS. I need to decide whether I want the Hsu VTF-2 MK3 or the SVS PB10-NSD. I was just wondering if anyone has had experience with them and could recommend one. I am leaning more toward the SVS.

 

[Peter Marcks]

The room is 20X26X22 but the HT area is 11X16X22. One of the walls is split by an enrty way.

That's a huge room nick!!! Even though the 12" models we have like the VTF-2 Mk3 and VTF-3 Mk3 can fill relatively large rooms, that is still pretty huge for a single 12" woofer, let alone 10" or smaller.

I would place a single VTF-2 Mk3 sideways directly behind the couch in the nearfield position, for lack of better options with your room size and budget constraints. If you can save up for the VTF-3 Mk3, then place that sideways behind the couch as well, with woofer firing towards the couch.

Sincerely,

 

[Warpdrv]

Maybe compare it to a fart in the wind.....

Can I say that..?

 

[Warpdrv]

I would place a single VTF-2 Mk3 sideways directly behind the couch in the nearfield position, for lack of better options with your room size and budget constraints. If you can save up for the VTF-3 Mk3, then place that sideways behind the couch as well, with woofer firing towards the couch.

Better yet... for asthetics you could have two of them behind the couch like a long table.

 

[nick1000000]

I'm glad you replied. I have a question. First off, I can extend the budget if it is really necessary. Are you saying get two subs to put behind the couch or are you suggesting the VTF-3 MK3 would be adequite? I have 2 couches. One is along the 16' wall, and the other is along the back wall(20') in front of a fireplace. I know I shouldn't put it there. Where the other sofa is, it is 5' away from the main seeting area.

 

[nick1000000]

Better yet... for asthetics you could have two of them behind the couch like a long table.

I could use them as a vibrating coffee table

 

[westcott]

Okay, I have e-mailed both HSU and SVS. I need to decide whether I want the Hsu VTF-2 MK3 or the SVS PB10-NSD. I was just wondering if anyone has had experience with them and could recommend one. I am leaning more toward the SVS.

The HSU far outperforms the SVS PB10-NSD. It outperforms the PB12!!!!

See for yourself

And placing them behind the couch is the worst place for a subwoofer theroretically. The best position for a sub is almost always opposite of the seating position in a rectangular room. And, if not placed along a wall, you will lose some free reinforcement\dB.

I suggest you go to the Audioholics University section and do some homework instead of relying on hearsay. Lots of good articles to substantiate my remarks.

 

[westcott]

Ever heard a pair??? I think you are confusing their specs in a big way:

This is the rated -3dB point in a typical room.



THIS:


is the accuracy over a given range. I had a friend comment that he thought I had my sub on when I had them playing full range when I owned them. They don't go really low, but it is lower than the average bookshelf.



Um, my A/V-1s are -3dB at 55Hz and they use a single 5 1/4 mid bass... and the cabinets are a bit smaller than the Minis.

Since there are no published specs on frequency response below 70Hz, other than 43Hz DIN, it is hard to comment on linearity and distortion levels below 70Hz. It would be safer to assume that a subwoofer would pick up where the minis left off. I would not ask them to do much below 70Hz with a subwoofer anyway. It is better to relieve the strains associated with lower frequencies to the subwoofer so the minis can do what they do best, mid to high frequencies.

 

[j_garcia]

The HSU far outperforms the SVS PB10-NSD. It outperforms the PB12!!!!

It also costs $250 more than the PB-10 and $100 more than the PB-12, so what is your point? They are all solid subs.

And placing them behind the couch is the worst place for a subwoofer theroretically. The best position for a sub is almost always opposite of the seating position in a rectangular room. And, if not placed along a wall, you will lose some free reinforcement\dB.

Wow, ignorance abounds. Just in case you didn't know, Peter Marcks WORKS FOR HSU. Somehow I don't think you have more knowledge about subs than he does.... He is saying that near field will give slightly more output and tactile response at the listening position without buying a larger sub.

I suggest you go to the Audioholics University section and do some homework instead of relying on hearsay. Lots of good articles to substantiate my remarks.

Since there are no published specs on frequency response below 70Hz, other than 43Hz DIN, it is hard to comment on linearity and distortion levels below 70Hz. It would be safer to assume that a subwoofer would pick up where the minis left off. I would not ask them to do much below 70Hz with a subwoofer anyway. It is better to relieve the strains associated with lower frequencies to the subwoofer so the minis can do what they do best, mid to high frequencies.

HELLO!? That is Paradigm's published spec... I also owned these speakers for a few years so I actually have first hand experience with them unlike your hearsay.

 

[westcott]

Okay, I have e-mailed both HSU and SVS. I need to decide whether I want the Hsu VTF-2 MK3 or the SVS PB10-NSD. I was just wondering if anyone has had experience with them and could recommend one. I am leaning more toward the SVS.

Nick made no mention of money concerns. He simply stated he could not decide between the two. So, if money is not an issue, buy the better sub.

 

[j_garcia]

I owned the PB-10 and a Mk1 VTF-2. They are both very good subs.

 

[AVRat]

Nick, the Minis w/ the largest in the SVS/HSU arsenal that you can comfortably afford is a good start.

 

[Peter Marcks]

Good evening nick!

I'm glad you replied. I have a question. First off, I can extend the budget if it is really necessary. Are you saying get two subs to put behind the couch or are you suggesting the VTF-3 MK3 would be adequite? I have 2 couches. One is along the 16' wall, and the other is along the back wall(20') in front of a fireplace. I know I shouldn't put it there. Where the other sofa is, it is 5' away from the main seeting area.

Do you mind working up a quick sketch of your room?

I don't want you to have to bust your budget. Just start with one subwoofer placed next to or behind your primary listening position, you can always add another down the road if necessary. One of the benefits of nearfield placement is that impact is great due to close proximity to the listener. So even in a large room, you will get very good impact at the primary listening position.

Sincerely,

 

[Peter Marcks]

Wescott, I feel that in many rooms, mid-bass is best experienced in the nearfield, and deep bass is best experienced in the farfield (front corner). One of the nice things about nearfield placement is reduced room reflections due to the higher ratio of direct-to-reflected sound. The problem with positioning a true subwoofer in the nearfield to handle low/mid/upper bass is that, in rooms that are not very deep, there can be some cancellation as one pressure wave moves forward and reflects backward as a second pressure wave moves forward. That's why nearfield placement of a true subwoofer tends to work best in relatively deep rooms (say, 15-18 feet or deeper). If one has a limited budget and a relatively large room, nearfield placement is a great way to get high impact and good sound without having the subwoofer run out of steam from being placed very far away from the listening position in a large open room.

 

[nick1000000]

Good evening nick!



Do you mind working up a quick sketch of your room?


Sincerely,

I posted the picture in the forum that you wanted.

 

[westcott]

Wescott, I feel that in many rooms, mid-bass is best experienced in the nearfield, and deep bass is best experienced in the farfield (front corner). One of the nice things about nearfield placement is reduced room reflections due to the higher ratio of direct-to-reflected sound. The problem with positioning a true subwoofer in the nearfield to handle low/mid/upper bass is that, in rooms that are not very deep, there can be some cancellation as one pressure wave moves forward and reflects backward as a second pressure wave moves forward. That's why nearfield placement of a true subwoofer tends to work best in relatively deep rooms (say, 15-18 feet or deeper). If one has a limited budget and a relatively large room, nearfield placement is a great way to get high impact and good sound without having the subwoofer run out of steam from being placed very far away from the listening position in a large open room.

If that is where your subs are designed to perform best, than that is where they should be placed. I would never suggest that I know more about a manufactuers sub then they do. The volume of bass produced by a ported sub like yours may in fact perform better away from the walls. I agree that placing a subwoofer in the corner excites too many room modes and that is why I recommend subs placed mid wall for a flatter frequency response while still gaining some free dB from room reinforcement. I see no real advantage of placing a sub behind a couch if one is sitting the proper distance into a room. The sub will still be fairly close to the rear wall if the listener is positioned two thirds into the room. If he is sitting closer, he is in a null and he has more problems than just a lack of subwoofer capabilities. The best sub in the world would not help him then. Here again, you know what your subs are designed for and if nearfield placement is how they were meant to be placed, then that is where they should go.

 

[j_garcia]

Did you even read his post? He said far is preferred, but if you have a larger room and a smaller budget, near field can yeild better results with near field because you hear and feel the sound BEFORE room effects. By having the sub closer to you, you can calibrate lower and use less power to generate the same SPL.

2/3 on the wall is a generic recommendation, just like front corner is, to start with, as the "best" position will be different in every room.