Noob question for the experts

[davey28]

I've owned a pair of JBL L5's for the past 15 years. I used to power them with an older Pioneer receiver rated at 110 wpc. I recently purchased a new Denon AVR 1907 rated at 80 wpc. The JBL's can handle up to 350 watts each so I feel they are being under powered and I'm losing what they have to offer. My question is, can I connect an external amp to the Denon and still get all the features (5.1 / 7.1) the Denon has to offer? If this is possible, how are the connections made to and from the Denon to the amp?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Dave

 

[avliner]

Hi Dave,

welcome to the forum!

If your AVR has PRE OUTS (check the back panel; if it does, you'll find 8 RCA female plugs, being one for each channel, including the SW), then yes, you can add an outboard amp., otherwise no way.

To make that connection is pretty simple; let's say you want the L/R fronts to be powered by the amp, ok? You'll need to connect 01 RCA cable each from the Denon pre outs (L/R), straight to the L/R inputs on the amp.
From there (amp. outputs), you'll connect the wires to the speakers and you'll be ready to go.

Cheers.

 

[darien87]

Hey Dave,

According to Denon's website your receiver has "Pre-amp outputs for Multi-Zone". So it sure as heck sounds like you can do it. I'm just about to do the same thing with my Yamaha 661. So you can just find yourself a high powered 2-channel amp to run your JBL's then let the Denon run your other speakers.

 

[MDS]

I'd check the manual to be sure (or better yet, look at the back of the receiver. )

'Multi-zone pre-outs' probably means it has pre-outs for the zone 2 feature so you could use a 2 channel amp (instead of the receiver) to drive zone 2 and retain 7.1 in the main zone.

 

[davey28]

Guys, thanks for the welcome and the excellent info! As some of you said, the Denon does have have pre outs for the main zone AND zone 2. When using zone 2 with a different source, the receiver becomes 5.1 only. My plan is not to use zone 2 with a separate source and connect it 7.1. Currently it's connected as 5.1 as I haven't got the rear surrounds in yet. I only want the external amp to drive the front L/R JBL's and I'll let the receivers internal amps drive the surrounds. My concern or should I say, lack of knowledge, was when I connect the external amp, do I lose the ability of 5.1/7.1 but from what you all say, I wont. GREAT to know!!

With that said, what should I expect to pay ball park figure for a used, say, 200 x 2 wpc amp? What would be a good search term if I were looking on Ebay? Or are there better places to look?

Thanks again for any info. This is a great forum!!

Dave

 

[Duffinator]

With that said, what should I expect to pay ball park figure for a used, say, 200 x 2 wpc amp? What would be a good search term if I were looking on Ebay? Or are there better places to look?

Thanks again for any info. This is a great forum!!

Dave

If you want to stick with Denon look for a used POA-2800. 200x2 with a huge toroidal tranny. They typically go for about $400 on eBay, about the same price as your AVR. But once you have it you can use it with any AVR or pre in the future.

 

[davey28]

If you want to stick with Denon look for a used POA-2800. 200x2 with a huge toroidal tranny. They typically go for about $400 on eBay, about the same price as your AVR. But once you have it you can use it with any AVR or pre in the future.

Thanks Duffinator but it doesn't have to be Denon. Are there any other decent brands out there for a little less money? And what the heck is a "toroidal tranny"? Sounds like something in my car! I guess I really dont need to know, it's way over my head anyway.

Also, I see some amps on Ebay that have the 1/4"? headphone type inputs. Is there a way to make these type work? RCA to headphone adapter perhaps?

 

[avliner]

Dave,

the best bet, moneywise, would be the Behringer A500 (brand new, at $170).

 

[highfihoney]

Sure there are cheaper amps but im a firm believer in ya get what ya pay for,especially with amplifiers,i would look at Audiogon.com for used amplifiers, its way better than ebay.

Duffinators suggestion was a good suggestion but that dont mean that there are not other amps to be had,just keep in mind its going to cost you $400 to $500 for any decent amplifier on the used market.

 

[darien87]

Sure there are cheaper amps but im a firm believer in ya get what ya pay for,especially with amplifiers,i would look at Audiogon.com for used amplifiers, its way better than ebay.

Duffinators suggestion was a good suggestion but that dont mean that there are not other amps to be had,just keep in mind its going to cost you $400 to $500 for any decent amplifier on the used market.

Exactamente dude. I just paid $550 for a used Acurus 200x3, but from what I've read, it's a pretty awesome amp.

 

[davey28]

"Also, I see some amps on Ebay that have the 1/4"? headphone type inputs. Is there a way to make these type work? RCA to headphone adapter perhaps?"

I asked this question on an earlier post. Guess you all must have missed it.

 

[darien87]

"Also, I see some amps on Ebay that have the 1/4"? headphone type inputs. Is there a way to make these type work? RCA to headphone adapter perhaps?"

I asked this question on an earlier post. Guess you all must have missed it.

I believe you are looking at pro-gear which uses XLR connectors. There are adapters to make those work. Chris, who goes by Wmax here is intimately knowledgable about that stuff. Shoot him a PM and he'll be able to help you.

 

[davey28]

Went with the Behringer A-500

OK guys, I ordered up a pair of the A-500's. One for the L/R fronts and one for the center. I should have them Tuesday. Later I plan to add one more so each front speaker will have it's own amp. So now I have another question. I have all my gear located in the basement except for the display, DVD player and or course the speakers. I'm using an RF remote (URC MX-900) to control everything. Will I still be able to use the Denon's volume control to control the output of the amps? I sure hope so!! Running up and down the stairs to adjust volume will be a royal PITA!

TIA

Dave

 

[Duffinator]

OK guys, I ordered up a pair of the A-500's. One for the L/R fronts and one for the center. I should have them Tuesday. Later I plan to add one more so each front speaker will have it's own amp. So now I have another question. I have all my gear located in the basement except for the display, DVD player and or course the speakers. I'm using an RF remote (URC MX-900) to control everything. Will I still be able to use the Denon's volume control to control the output of the amps? I sure hope so!! Running up and down the stairs to adjust volume will be a royal PITA!

TIA

Dave

No problem, I use an external amp with mine and it's just plug and play. You will want to check the output with a sound meter for fine tuning but when I added my Denon amp it was spot on with no adjustment needed.

 

[jcPanny]

Amp control

Dave,
You should have no problem controlling the volume with the Denon. You will adjust the volume on the amps just once when equalizing the levels with the center and surround channels.

One problem you might run into is the Behringers don't have a triggered power on. You will have to leave the amps on all the time, manually turn them on when you want to use the system, or get a power stip or power center that can provide the triggered power function. Also note, you can only run the behringers in 500 Watt bridged mode if your speakers are 8 ohms.

I ended up adding an Emotiva LPA-1 amp to my system. It has 6/7 channels of >200 Watts at 4 ohms and has the trigger on feature so it turns on/off with the receiver.

 

[davey28]

Dave,
You should have no problem controlling the volume with the Denon. You will adjust the volume on the amps just once when equalizing the levels with the center and surround channels.

One problem you might run into is the Behringers don't have a triggered power on. You will have to leave the amps on all the time, manually turn them on when you want to use the system, or get a power stip or power center that can provide the triggered power function. Also note, you can only run the behringers in 500 Watt bridged mode if your speakers are 8 ohms.

I ended up adding an Emotiva LPA-1 amp to my system. It has 6/7 channels of >200 Watts at 4 ohms and has the trigger on feature so it turns on/off with the receiver.

Great info JCP! Thanks! Now I have more questions...

I knew the Behringers didn't have the trigger and wasn't sure how I was going to handle turning them on/off. From what I understand they run pretty cool so for now I'll just leave them on. I found a website that describes turning a standard power strip into a 12v triggered power strip using a auto relay. I dont see anything on the back of the Denon about 12v out? So how would I make the power strip turn on/off?

My JBL L/R fronts are 6 ohms. Will this be a problem? I'm really confused when it comes to impedance loads. From what I've read it appears driving the 6 ohms increases the amps output? I could be way off on this.

Again guys, thanks for this great info! I love learning about this stuff!

 

[alexsound]

Just out of curiousity, how big of a room do you have ? I know you said you used to have your JBL's hooked up to a "110w" Pioneer, but if your intention is to get "louder", at least in stereo, the Denon probably has the same real world power output if not more than your older Pioneer does. I assume you have already hooked everything up and did you notice any difference in volume capability ? I'm saying this because, if, A: you have a small room, B:Your only going by published power specs, and power is the only concern you have, then don't waste your money on another component you may not even need. I used to own a pait of JBL L80t3's' which aren't as efficent as the L5's and had them hooked up to an older Yamaha RXV395 ( At the time, their cheapest surround receiver) and this combo could get plenty loud, without audible distortion. By the way, there are reviews out there on the Denon 1907 showing it to be a fairly powerful receiver in both stereo and multi-channel output. One more thing. The 350W input power spec on
your L5's doesn't mean much. Even today, there aren't very many amps (affordable) capable of actually putting out that kind of power, at least on a continuous basis and if you did get one and played your music loud enough where the amp was actually putting that kind of power out to your L5's, your ears would be bleeding.

 

[davey28]

Just out of cuiousity, how big of a room do you have ? I know you said you used to have your JBL's hooked up to a "110w" Pioneer, but if your intention is to get "louder", at least in stereo, the Denon probably has the same real world power output if not more than your older Pioneer does. I assume you have already hooked everything up and did you notice any difference in volume capability ? I'm saying this because, if, A: you have a small room, B:Your only going by published power specs, and power is the only concern you have, then don't waste your money on another component you may not even need. I used to own a pait of JBL L80t3's' which aren't as efficent as the L5's and had them hooked up to an older Yamaha RXV395 ( At the time, their cheapest surround receiver) and this combo could get plenty loud, without audible distortion. By the way, there are reviews out there on the Denon 1907 showing it to be a fairly powerful receiver in both stereo and multi-channel output. One more thing. The 350W input power spec on
your L5's doesn't mean much. Even today, there aren't very many amps (affordable) capable of actually putting out that kind of power, at least on a continuous basis and if you did get one and played your music loud enough where the amp was actually putting that kind of power out to your L5's, your ears would be bleading.

The room isn't large, about 12 x 19. My intension isn't really to get "louder" but more get punch at lower volumes. The L5's just seem flat, even with the Denon. I really cant tell any difference between the Denon and the old Pioneer so you're probably right in that the Denon is as capable as the old Pioneer. I just feel the L5's have been under powered since the day I bought them.

I haven't received the Behringers yet so I cant comment what difference they will make. I certainly dont want to waste money on something that I wont notice.

 

[darien87]

Great info JCP! Thanks! Now I have more questions...

I dont see anything on the back of the Denon about 12v out? So how would I make the power strip turn on/off?

Looking at Denon's website, it doesn't look like the 1907 has trigger outputs. That sucks. But another option is to go with something like the Belkin PF31. It has a 120V input that can be used to turn on remote amplifiers. Belkin supplies the cable, but it's only about 6 feet long. What you're going to have to do is get an extension cord that is long enough to run from the 120V outputs on the back of your receiver, and connect that to the Belkin cord that attaches to the Belkin's remote AC input. The Belkin will "see" this signal when your Denon turns on and then, it will activate it's switched inputs and turn the amps on.

I do the same thing with my Acurus 200x3, using the trigger out from my Yamaha.

 

[alexsound]

If it's more punch you want at lower volumes, then maybe you need a
good sub. Lots of good ones available in the 400-500 dollar range that would help the low end on your L5's. A lot of people don't realize the difference a good subwoofer can make, especially at lower volumes. That may be all you need. Take a look at the 'Pro Reviews" on the Audioholics home page and there are a few reviews on lower priced subs.