Beginner question about which receiver

[gus6464]

I am brand new to the forums and just moved in to my first house and its time for a decent HT setup. I got a pretty good deal on a 50" 1080p samsung tv and a toshiba a2 hd-dvd player. My wife is letting me spend $2000 on a new receiver and speakers so I decided to go with the balanced AV product recommendation that consists of the Axiom Epic Grandmaster speakers and Hsu Research STF-2 sub. Now my question is about the Denon AVR-1707 that is recommended. I can get the receiver for $300 online and save around $150, so should I go for that one or get the Pioneer VSX-1016TXV which is listed as an alternative but I dont know if its better than the Denon. Would you recommend I stick with the cheaper Denon and go with some better speakers? Any help is greatly appreciated.

My other question doesnt really belong in this forums but its tied to the first one somewhat. I am going to put my old cheap Sony receiver and speakers in the bedroom but my subwoofer doesnt work any more. What is a fairly inexpensive replacement sub to buy to replace the broken one? I just dont want to walk into a Best Buy or Circuit City and buy one of the cheapest subs they got and then feel like I got ripped off somehow.

 

[Seth=L]

I would suggest the Onkyo TX-SR604 or possibly the 605 when it becomes available. Another good alternative would be the Yamaha RX-V661 or its big box store model HTR-6060. Both units offer HDMI switching and audio decoding where the Denon AV-1707 does not feature HDMI at all. The Pioneer VSX-1016TXV only had HDMI switching, no audio processing.

 

[Leprkon]

I'd like to put the Denon AVR 2106 on the table. For a similar price, you'll get more power. It doesn't do HDMI switching either (not a big priority for me, since I personally send all video direct to the display), but it will give you excellent quality sound.

http://dakmart.com/itemdetails/30630/173/

If you are in the market for a big-time whole-house unit with HDMI capability, you can pick up a Denon AVR 2307CI at second act for under $500.

http://www.secondact.biz/product/AVR2307CIRB

 

[Leprkon]

You can get some decent values on subs at Onecall or Ubid, but you have to watch the shipping. Sometimes you can get a better deal on a more expensive sub that actually has lower shipping.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=30742

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=24505

http://www.ubid.com/Yamaha_YST-FSW100__130w_Powered_Subwoofer_Black/a11018698.html

 

[Seth=L]

Given the OP's present equipment HDMI is pretty much a no brainer.

To utilize the HDMI output of the HD-A2 for that oh so great Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS-HD 7.1 audio you would be best off getting a receiver that can manage that stuff.

I think the Onkyo TX-SR605 is probably the best value and feature laden receiver for under $500.

 

[Leprkon]

Given the OP's present equipment HDMI is pretty much a no brainer.

To utilize the HDMI output of the HD-A2 for that oh so great Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS-HD 7.1 audio you would be best off getting a receiver that can manage that stuff.

I think the Onkyo TX-SR605 is probably the best value and feature laden receiver for under $500.

I would beg to differ on "no-brainer", depending on one's priorities. Your recommendation is a very short-term solution.

(quote from Wikipedia's entry on Dolby TrueHD),

All HD DVD players offer the option to transcode the TrueHD bitstream into a different legacy format (such as Dolby Digital or DTS), providing a high-quality approximation of the original TrueHD audio over the familiar TOSLINK cable.

Therefore, a similarly-priced but higher-quality receiver might be a better long-term value for the OP, even though they might be last year's model and have fewer "features".

This especially applies if he uses a VCR, CD player, phono, radio, or any other non-HDMI device on a regular basis, or might make a future investment in an HD player with external outputs (HD-XA1 or XA2), which could get new Dolbies and DTSes via software upgrade.

In these cases, the OP clearly would benefit from better audio quality in the long run. HDMI does nothing for audio quality on non-DVD sources (we could extend even this to any non HD-DVD sources, as I am personally not aware of any advanced audio on run-of-the-mill DVD discs).

HDMI in a receiver is clearly a one-trick pony, quality-wise.

In the end, it's the quality of the electronics that make a receiver a long-term value. Bells and whistles are very short-term.

Value is only defined by on one's priorities.

 

[no. 5]

Personally, I would use the six channel analogue connection rather then an optical or coax digital connection from the A2 to the receiver, if I didn’t want HDMI.
The reason being that, even though S/PDIF will carry DTS or DD audio transcoded from the original DD+ or TrueHD mix, it will not sound as good as the DD+, or TrueHD mix that can only be accessed with HDMI or the six channel analogue connection.

In addition to that, HDMI is currently the only option for passing a 1080p signal.


EDIT: I just found out that the A2 does not have a six channel analogue out, so that means the only way to get high resolution audio out of the thing is to use HDMI.

 

[Seth=L]

I would beg to differ on "no-brainer", depending on one's priorities. Your recommendation is a very short-term solution.

(quote from Wikipedia's entry on Dolby TrueHD),

All HD DVD players offer the option to transcode the TrueHD bitstream into a different legacy format (such as Dolby Digital or DTS), providing a high-quality approximation of the original TrueHD audio over the familiar TOSLINK cable.

Therefore, a similarly-priced but higher-quality receiver might be a better long-term value for the OP, even though they might be last year's model and have fewer "features".

This especially applies if he uses a VCR, CD player, phono, radio, or any other non-HDMI device on a regular basis, or might make a future investment in an HD player with external outputs (HD-XA1 or XA2), which could get new Dolbies and DTSes via software upgrade.

In these cases, the OP clearly would benefit from better audio quality in the long run. HDMI does nothing for audio quality on non-DVD sources (we could extend even this to any non HD-DVD sources, as I am personally not aware of any advanced audio on run-of-the-mill DVD discs).

HDMI in a receiver is clearly a one-trick pony, quality-wise.

In the end, it's the quality of the electronics that make a receiver a long-term value. Bells and whistles are very short-term.

Value is only defined by on one's priorities.

The quality of "sound" from either unit should be fine. The OP states that their is an HD-DVD player, and it only passes high resolution 7.1 over HDMI. It also has a very good auto setup by Audyssey. It has respectable power, in the same league as the Denon mentioned before. Faroudja DCDi video processing, which is a bit dated but at least it has upconversion hardware.

These receivers are in the same amplifier roster, so that shouldn't be an issue. And as far as "short term solution", I think you have it a little backwards. The Onkyo is future ready, the Denon is not really so equiped.

 

[darien87]

The quality of "sound" from either unit should be fine. The OP states that their is an HD-DVD player, and it only passes high resolution 7.1 over HDMI. It also has a very good auto setup by Audyssey. It has respectable power, in the same league as the Denon mentioned before. Faroudja DCDi video processing, which is a bit dated but at least it has upconversion hardware.

These receivers are in the same amplifier roster, so that shouldn't be an issue. And as far as "short term solution", I think you have it a little backwards. The Onkyo is future ready, the Denon is not really so equiped.

I agree with Seth.

I would also suggest the Yamaha 661. You can find them online for under $400. It does HDMI audio and has many other great features. I have only listened to a few Blu-ray discs with lossless audio, but Blackhawk Down blew me away. The difference between the Dolby Digital track and the PCM was pretty noticeable.

I would also question how good a "high-quality approximation of the original TrueHD audio over the familiar TOSLINK cable" would really sound.

 

[Leprkon]

The Onkyo is future ready, the Denon is not really so equiped.

Maybe you should check the specs on the two I offered. I think you'll find the 2307CI to have every bell and whistle in the book, even though it's not what I personally would buy.

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3255.asp

 

[Leprkon]

In addition to that, HDMI is currently the only option for passing a 1080p signal.

one would note that 1080P need not be passed through a receiver in order to get to a television.

 

[Seth=L]

Maybe you should check the specs on the two I offered. I think you'll find the 2307CI to have every bell and whistle in the book, even though it's not what I personally would buy.

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3255.asp

That receiver is $800.

 

[gus6464]

Well my complete setup will be the following:
Samsung TV has 2 HDMI inputs but one has to be used for the directv HD DVR since I have read there are issues with using a receiver for hdmi pass through.
I have the toshiba A2 hd-dvd but I will probably be getting an xbox360 for christmas (elite version).

Also have a Wii and PS2 but those are just going into the component inputs.
Since none of my players and consoles will be hdmi 1.3 I dont really care about having 1.3 support on the receiver so if buying a 1.2 receiver and having better audio quality for the same price I dont really mind. I just want something that can really power the speakers and sub for the price. So if the Yamaha 661 has better audio quality than the Denon 605 I dont really mind.

Also I will be mounting the surrounds on the corners of the back wall of the living room and was wondering if 16awg will be enough, its going to be around a 50 ft. wire run for each speaker. Or should I just go with 12awg? Will be purchasing Velocity wire.

 

[Seth=L]

I would probably use a higher gauge for longer cable runs.

 

[no. 5]

one would note that 1080P need not be passed through a receiver in order to get to a television.

You are absolutely right, there is no reason to run HDMI through the receiver for 1080p; but for high resolution audio from the A2, HDMI must go through the receiver.

Since none of my players and consoles will be hdmi 1.3 I dont really care about having 1.3 support on the receiver so if buying a 1.2 receiver and having better audio quality for the same price I dont really mind. I just want something that can really power the speakers and sub for the price. So if the Yamaha 661 has better audio quality than the Denon 605 I dont really mind.

Good thinking, but unless you want SACD support, all you will need is a HDMI v1.1compatible receiver.

Also I will be mounting the surrounds on the corners of the back wall of the living room and was wondering if 16awg will be enough, its going to be around a 50 ft. wire run for each speaker. Or should I just go with 12awg? Will be purchasing Velocity wire.

16awg would be ok, but as Seth said, 12awg would be better.