What price phase control?

[Buckle-meister]

All,

I wish to purchase two additional Mission Elegante e80 surrounds (with accompanying stands) to turn my 5.1 system into a 7.1 system. I'm buying at this time primarily because I suspect the Elegante range of speakers may not be available for much longer and I wish to have all my speakers in keeping with one another in terms of looks.

I'm also interested in buying 1 or 2 subs and this is the main thrust of this thread. I have Mission's Elegante e8as1 sub at present but am considering buying:

• Another e8as1;
• Two of the more powerful e8as2 subs (and selling the e8as1);
• Two subs from a different manufacturer altogether.

As you can see, I'd like to have a 7.2 system in one form or another.

The thing is, although I've absolutely no issue with my present sub's performance and am therefore quite happy to purchase another e8as1 to supplement it, it's frequency response isn't as low as the e8as2 (36Hz vs. 28Hz) and, of most importance to me, the e8as1 doesn't have variable phase control, only a 0º/180º switch instead.

Bearing in mind that I have software which allows me to obtain the best low frequency response with the equipment I have, my question to you all is:

Is having a variable phase control to fine tune my rooms low frequency response worth the extra expense of 2 e8as2's over 1 additional e8as1?

Cheers,

 

[MDS]

My opinion, which is based at least partially on experience, is that you can do without an infinitely variable phase control. Unless you have a room where you place the sub at the opposite end from the main speakers, it is next to impossible to hear any difference between a phase setting of 0 vs 180 so what's the point of being able to set it at 120 degrees (or whatever).

If the price difference is minimal and/or you just like the ability to 'tweak' go for it but I wouldn't make the presence of an infinitely adjustable phase control a make or break decision as to which sub or sub(s) to choose.

But hey, maybe my ears aren't good enough or my equipment isn't resolving enough (as the 'audiophiles' would say) to hear the difference and your experience may differ.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Thanks MDS,

My opinion, which is based at least partially on experience, is that...Unless you have a room where you place the sub at the opposite end from the main speakers, it is next to impossible to hear any difference between a phase setting of 0 vs 180...

I can't honestly tell you whether I can hear a difference as I've never done the comparison. However, I can tell you that there is a very noticable difference in frequency response plots between the two settings.

If it's "next to impossible to hear any difference between a phase setting of 0 vs 180", why have the control at all? Do you think it's a marketing issue?

 

[MDS]

No, I don't think it is just a marketing ploy. The phase control has a real use and fully variable gives you more control than only having 0 and 180 as choices.

All I'm saying is that the difference to me, in my room, is practically nonexistent.

 

[Tom Andry]

If you're having room issues (like just about everyone does) adjusting the variable phase can sometimes help. It takes some sort of real time measurement to really do it justice but running a bass sweep can reveal some differences as well. I'd personally like to see variable phase on all subs.

 

[Adam]

Assuming that electronics manufacturers do it, couldn't the phasing/timing (and equilization, for that matter) of a sub be adjusted through a receiver just like it is for other speakers? Maybe I'm missing something. Seems like a perfect thing to put into the auto-setup features that many receivers come with these days. I guess I just like things easy. My rear speakers don't have variable timing knobs on them, and they don't need them because my receiver takes care of the timing. I figure that it won't be long before outboard electronics handle this for subs (some stuff already exists), so phase controls on a sub aren't a big selling point for me.

 

[Buckle-meister]

If you're having room issues (like just about everyone does) adjusting the variable phase can sometimes help. It takes some sort of real time measurement to really do it justice but running a bass sweep can reveal some differences as well.

This is exactly my case. I use ETF and can at present get a flat response over at least 20 to 200Hz. However, I'm about to move and will have to go through the laborious (pays dividends though) process of trying multiple sub locations to get the best frequency response of my towers and sub combined.

I'm fairly confident that I can (eventually) get a pretty good response in any future room but figured that with variable phase control over a simple switch I'd be able to flatten out the response to a greater extent. Can't say whether or not I'd hear the difference though...

...phase controls on a sub aren't a big selling point for me.

If it wasn't for the fact that I actually measure my room's response it wouldn't be for me either. In fact I didn't even know about phase control at the time I purchased my system. Now that I do know about it, however, I'm wondering what 'weighting' to put against it.

 

[Buckle-meister]

And done.

Well, I decided to go for the matching e8as1, i.e. the smaller sub with the phase switch, alongside a pair of e80 surround-backs with matching stands. 7.2 is winging its way to me as I type; yee-haa!

Thanks for your thoughts folks. I've now another question but that'll be more appropriately addressed in the 'Room Acoustics' part of the site (after I post it that is). Feel free to chip in!