Hello, 1st post, question on HK replacement.

J

Jack Fessler

Enthusiast
Jack here from Las Vegas.....found this site looking for write ups/difference of two Harmon Kardon receivers. Lot of knowledge and helpful people.

After sending in my HK DPR 2005 twice for repair, HK replaced it with an AVR635.

While I'm happy that I finally have a unit that works, not only do the prices seem to be lower on the 635 but the rated power is less also (I know it's not all about the power)

What are your thoughts on the swap??


BTW, I did search "Harmon Kardon" trying not to be redundant....if this has already been covered; I apologize in advance.
 
nav

nav

Audioholic
Despite the difference in MSRP, if I was choosing between the two units for myself, I would select the AVR 635. So, as far as "[my] thoughts" go, I would feel it was a sufficient trade if maybe not a perfect one.
 
J

Jack Fessler

Enthusiast
Thank you.....could you be a little more specific??


I know I'm fixating, but the power difference is kinda bugging me.
 
nav

nav

Audioholic
Thank you.....could you be a little more specific??
Harman Kardon's DPR line was always noted as plagued by apparent quality control problems, as you've noticed first-hand. The AVR has been known to have its quirks as well, but less severe and universal.

The DPR 2005's power rating is at twice (0.15%) the distortion of the AVR 635 (0.07%). I'm positive that neither is audible, but that is a source of a little of the DPR's extra power. I have not yet found measurements that I could use to compare the power output of the two units, so I cannot really expand on this further. Do you already have the AVR 635 and does it seem to be performing well-enough in terms of power?

Harman Kardon's MSRPs are always fantastically inaccurate. By the time the DPR line was discontinued they were actually relatively close in price (it dropped to ~$500 during clearance if I recall correctly) and they both sell for nearly the same amount used.

The AVR 635 has an additional component input, more digital audio inputs (one extra optical and one extra coaxial), and it otherwise has all of the same processing capabilities. It is, however, bigger, likely runs warmer (due to its more traditional power supply and amplifier setup), and is not nearly as pretty on the inside.
 
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J

Jack Fessler

Enthusiast
Impressive!!!

Initial clarity/volume is adequate, haven't cranked anything in stereo yet.

Sounds like I shouldn't bother to complain.




Now I'm just picking your brain:

"due to its more traditional power supply and amplifier setup), and is not nearly as pretty on the inside"

Did the AVR replace the DPR??? Is one amp/power supply inherently better than the other? (is this like a tube vs. digital debate?)

Thanks for taking the time to answer what are probably obvious questions.

Just remember, there are no dumb questions.......just dumb people!!!
 
nav

nav

Audioholic
Impressive!!!

Initial clarity/volume is adequate, haven't cranked anything in stereo yet.

Sounds like I shouldn't bother to complain.
Good to hear.
Did the AVR replace the DPR??? Is one amp/power supply inherently better than the other? (is this like a tube vs. digital debate?)
The AVR line is Harman Kardon's primary receiver series. The DPR line was their attempt at utilizing class D amplifiers.

Class A, B, and A/B amplifiers had been around long enough to virtually perfect and class D is much newer. While class D was still evolving (it arguably still is), amplifiers utilizing the design were generally considered not particularly suitable for hi-fi applications (either due to relatively high distortion, non-linear frequency response, et cetera). Class D amplifiers are extremely efficient (many times over 90%) compared to the traditional amplifier classes [1]; that is, there is less power wasted as heat in the process of power amplification.

So, basically, class D amplifiers must not be designed terribly to sound good. Of course, that's true with all amplifiers, but designers have had less practice with class D so there is a greater ratio of poor designs than with class A/B. I couldn't say much about the implementation of the DPR 2005's amplifier.

[1] Class A has a wide range depending upon implementation from ~15-40%, class B allows up to ~70%, and class A/B is a hybrid of the two to improve on class B's fidelity and is likewise up to ~70%. Switching power supply designs such as class G or H can increase the efficiency up to ~80%.
 
J

Jack Fessler

Enthusiast
Great knowledge.............thanks for your time.


What's funny about this experience is I've always bought Onkyo, Kenwood and other "chain store" products. The only time I've splurged is I bought a 100 pound MONSTER JBL 1200 Watt Amp to cure some clipping at the volume levels I was listening to. (still have it, and it works flawless)

Was all uppity when I bought the HK thinking I was stepping up.....here's hoping the AVR treats me better than the DPR.

Would like to comment that HK's customer service is lightning fast!!!
 
B

bommai

Audioholic Intern
New to H/K - love sound quality, irritated by quirks

My first two HT receivers were Denon. Then I wanted something else. After researching the forums, I decided to buy a AVR 247 (new, available at Best Buy). Loved the sound. Works with PCM through HDMI. However, it had video scaling issues and LFE 10dB boost issues. So, I returned it and got the AVR 645 from amazon. Love the sound even more and no issues with LFE boost or scaling (no scaler - which is good). However, this receiver does not pass through 1080p (doesn't matter to me right now). It also has trouble processing MPCM from HD-DVD players. Bluray works fine. It gives me occasional purple color in the picture when switching resolutions with PS3.

Now, I heard about the 745 and some one was saying it is noticeably better than the 645. I got tempted and bought that through the Harman refurbished eBay auction. The 645 is going back. I hope the 745 is really an improvement over the 645.

Some people seem to have had a lot of issues with H/K receivers.
 
J

Jack Fessler

Enthusiast
Hi everyone!!!

Can't believe it's been 11 years!!!

Glad to report the HK is still chugging along!!

I gave it to my son and he uses it for his modest system.

Have a Yamaha 7.1 receiver for my main listening/viewing pleasure.....nothing extravagant.

I did something dumb which leads to another dumb question and the thread resurrection

I sold the 1200 watt Amp along with the preamp.....no clue why, not like it was costing me anything to keep.

So as an "unsophisticated" audiophile(?) who thinks AC/DC > Bach, I want another monster amp to drive those ridiculous Cerwin Vega XLS215 speakers.

Just a 2 channel setup.....


This will be a man cave system (2000' garage) to cause deafness.....live on an acre, not worried about neighbors.

Are pre-amps still used on the high powered stuff??

Thanks for your patience and what may be obvious questions to most here.

Look forward to recommendations.

Regards
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Weldome bacl from 11 years but a bit of Huh? What Yamaha avr did you end up with? The XLS215 were reasonably sensitive so deafness might need an external amp, if your Yamaha can provide appropriate pre-outs......pre-amp before amp is generally a good idea.

Hi everyone!!!

Can't believe it's been 11 years!!!

Glad to report the HK is still chugging along!!

I gave it to my son and he uses it for his modest system.

Have a Yamaha 7.1 receiver for my main listening/viewing pleasure.....nothing extravagant.

I did something dumb which leads to another dumb question and the thread resurrection

I sold the 1200 watt Amp along with the preamp.....no clue why, not like it was costing me anything to keep.

So as an "unsophisticated" audiophile(?) who thinks AC/DC > Bach, I want another monster amp to drive those ridiculous Cerwin Vega XLS215 speakers.

Just a 2 channel setup.....


This will be a man cave system (2000' garage) to cause deafness.....live on an acre, not worried about neighbors.

Are pre-amps still used on the high powered stuff??

Thanks for your patience and what may be obvious questions to most here.

Look forward to recommendations.

Regards
 
J

Jack Fessler

Enthusiast
Weldome bacl from 11 years but a bit of Huh? What Yamaha avr did you end up with? The XLS215 were reasonably sensitive so deafness might need an external amp, if your Yamaha can provide appropriate pre-outs......pre-amp before amp is generally a good idea.
Thanks for the welcome back.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

The Yamaha stays where it's at. (It's an RX V861) I do have some Cerwin Vega 15" as the front speakers; in stereo mode, it could use some more power, but it's ok.

The amp recommendation I'm looking for is a replacement for the JBL 1200 watt rig I sold at a garage sale....like an idiot.

Later, I sold the NAD pre-amp on flea bay...actually got good money for it if I remember correctly.

A clean 500 WPC will suffice.....just a simple 2 channel amp.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Don't know anything about the CV amp. I wonder how loud the "cooling tunnel" is, though. I use several Crown XLS 1500s (Drivecore series, not the older XLS which was a different design) and like them a lot; the fan noise is a non-issue with them and they have a bit more consumer friendly connectivity especially on the gen 2s (adjustable sensitivity and some other features were added over gen1). The XLS2002 is similarly priced to the CV amp and has similar spec. Might check out differences between XLS/XLi as discussed in this thread.
 
J

Jack Fessler

Enthusiast
Thanks!!!

The knowledge on this site is 2nd to none!!

Next dumb question.....it's been a while since I've dealt with separate components.

I'm assuming I need a pre-amp to run a CD player etc.

Or since there will be a TV in the man cave, do what lovin' suggested and get a modest receiver WITH preouts to just run the amp in stereo mode??

I think I'm getting a picture on what I'm attempting.

Cannot wait for Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap played at 11 on the dial!!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks!!!

The knowledge on this site is 2nd to none!!

Next dumb question.....it's been a while since I've dealt with separate components.

I'm assuming I need a pre-amp to run a CD player etc.

Or since there will be a TV in the man cave, do what lovin' suggested and get a modest receiver WITH preouts to just run the amp in stereo mode??

I think I'm getting a picture on what I'm attempting.

Cannot wait for Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap played at 11 on the dial!!
I would just get an AVR. The DACs and sound quality of the AVRs these days are top notch compared to separates systems.

The Denon X3000 series (X3300, X3400, and soon X3500) is normally $1K, but often on sale for $599 brand new. Some people may call places like Electronics Expo to ask a salesperson if they would sell for $550 shipped and they may oblige.

I have compared these x3000 series to high-end separates and they sound as awesome.

Of course, anything above like the X4000 (sale for $800),X5000, X6000, X7000, and X8000 series would sound awesome, but costs more.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks!!!

The knowledge on this site is 2nd to none!!

Next dumb question.....it's been a while since I've dealt with separate components.

I'm assuming I need a pre-amp to run a CD player etc.

Or since there will be a TV in the man cave, do what lovin' suggested and get a modest receiver WITH preouts to just run the amp in stereo mode??

I think I'm getting a picture on what I'm attempting.

Cannot wait for Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap played at 11 on the dial!!
Your Yamaha V861 has pre-outs...
 
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