PB10-NSD to the PB12-NSD?????

[Buckeye_Nut]

I want a plus too. I think i have upgrade-itus. My PB12-NSD rocks so hard I'm wondering how much harder a plus would rock.

my 2 cents......

Since you already own the NSD, I don't think the cost/performance benefit is enough to be worthy of an upgrade to the Plus. Yes, the plus is a better sub and a great value, but considering you already own the NSD..... for you, I dont think it would be good upgrade for the money.

If you have upgrade-itis as an NSD owner, my suggestion would be to step-up to the Ultra or Plus2. Otherwise, I'd hold onto my cash and spend it elsewhere.

 

[speakerman39]

I think you chose wisely........

I think many people confuse wanting more output, when what they really need is more performance and a more capable sub. If more output is what you need, then all you need to do is turn up the gain and make your current sub louder.

On the other hand, a more capable sub will offer more performance, lower extension, etc, etc, etc. at any given level of 'output'.

well done...

Thanks, as I sure hope you are correct. My PB12-NSD will be here about the middle of next week. Hopefully, I will know somthing by next weekend. Personally, I believe it will be enough for me. If not, I will soon get another while they are on sale for $499........LOL!!!!

 

[autoboy]

OK, i finally moved my pb12 -nsd sub around and I found a place behind the chair in the right front corner of the room that allows the sub to go lower than in other postions. OMFG!!! This sub hits hard. I had to turn the sub gain down several degrees but now it really really shakes the room hard. My reference material is the Transformers HD trailer on my xbox360 and when the robot climbs out of the pool, my gf (who constantly tells me to turn it down and hates audio) came down from the upstairs bedroom and told me the entire house was shaking and she thought that was awesome. WOW. She has never cared before. The big plus is that the sub is barely visible back there. I'm still dialing in the exact gain for this postion but I'm very impressed with this sub for HT. I don't think I need the plus anymore. Right now I have the gain at about 1/3.

 

[ironmike86]

How big is the room?

 

[speakerman39]

OK, i finally moved my pb12 -nsd sub around and I found a place behind the chair in the right front corner of the room that allows the sub to go lower than in other postions. OMFG!!! This sub hits hard. I had to turn the sub gain down several degrees but now it really really shakes the room hard. My reference material is the Transformers HD trailer on my xbox360 and when the robot climbs out of the pool, my gf (who constantly tells me to turn it down and hates audio) came down from the upstairs bedroom and told me the entire house was shaking and she thought that was awesome. WOW. She has never cared before. The big plus is that the sub is barely visible back there. I'm still dialing in the exact gain for this postion but I'm very impressed with this sub for HT. I don't think I need the plus anymore. Right now I have the gain at about 1/3.

Geez...........can't wait till I get my PB12-NSD. Thanks for the detailed info there. Your post has triggered lots of anticipation if you know what I mean????

 

[autoboy]

How big is the room?

Room is 2200 ft^3 open to the kitchen through a 7X10 doorway. The sub was in the other corner next to the open doorway which is why the extension and SPL was not as high. This position was kinda where my old sub worked best except the PB12 did not fit in the same spot so I moved it closer to the wall. Crawling for bass really does help.

 

[speakerman39]

WooHooo..............my PB12-NSD is being delivered today!!!!! I just can't wait till it is here. You know I want my baby to come home to daddy.....LOL!!! Thanks for all the info people as this forum is so helpful. Lets keep up the good work.

 

[j_garcia]

Great. I'm interested in hearing what you think about the differences.

 

[speakerman39]

Well, the PB12-NSD arrived and it is bigger than the PB10-NSD as well as heavier. No big deal as I was expecting it to be as size is really not an issue w/me. I just placed it where I had the PB10 and left the levels on my receiver the same. Intially, I listened to a few cds that I am quite familiar with and I did notice a couple of things. Musically, speaking the PB12 had more impact down low. However, I believe the PB10 was a bit more articulate. Above the 35 Hz range I honestly could NOT tell much of a difference between the two. The only thing that really stood out at least so far is that the PB12 is a bit sluggish when compared to the PB10. I also watched "The Fountain" which was just released to ht Tuesday and I could tell a difference in output. That is, the PB12 was more authoritative down low than the PB10. The movie really came alive even when the PB12 was playing even at extended periods of time. There is no doubt in my mind that the PB12-NSD is better than the PB10 w/repect to viewing movies. With music the PB10 is imho a bit better over-all. Keep in mind, that I have yet to experiement with placement NOR have I done any calibration. In other words, these findings thus far are my intial impressions. At this point, I venture to say that the PB12-NSD will probably be all I need. Just wish it was a bit more musical. I also think the Mirage S12 I owned at one time was more articulate with music BUT down low the PB12 is noticeably better. Perhaps, adding a second PB12-NSD may smooth things out a bit more as well as offer more punch w/music applications. Only time will tell and I will keep everyone posted.

 

[speakerman39]

After listening a bit more today I have come to the conclusion that the PB10 is a "bit" better than the PB12-NSD when listening to music. By that I am referring to the attack or the quickness of the music. In other words, the PB10 is punchier resulting in a more tighter sound if you will. However, when things go deep the PB12-NSD really shines and is quite noticeably better than the PB10. Of course, it should given that it has a larger port area, larger driver, more power, and etc. As a result, the PB12-NSD is able to move more air and thus more spl. I must say that I feel very comfortable with my purchase-at least for now anyways.

 

[j_garcia]

Glad you are happy with it. There is only a 25w difference between the 10 and 12, so not a huge difference. Like I said, it was mainly at the bottom where you would notice the difference.

 

[speakerman39]

Glad you are happy with it. There is only a 25w difference between the 10 and 12, so not a huge difference. Like I said, it was mainly at the bottom where you would notice the difference.

Yeah you were right on target John.......as always......LOL!!!! This is why I always enjoy reading your posts. So, how would adding a second PB12-NSD sound? Would, in your opinion, there be more output above the 35-40 Hz range??? Or, would the gain come more down low???? Maybe perhaps gain more down deep as well as above the 35-40 Hz range??? Just wanted to get your thoughts. Thanks for your help.

 

[j_garcia]

You will get more sound everywhere It will give you even more authority down low, but it won't make the sound any "faster" like the PB-10.

 

[speakerman39]

You will get more sound everywhere It will give you even more authority down low, but it won't make the sound any "faster" like the PB-10.

Thanks John. What about from say 35-80 Hz???? Will there be more output or will it be mainly down low??? Any suggestion(s) on making the PB12-NSD more musical???

 

[mike c]

cough i told you, you need a plus cough

 

[speakerman39]

cough i told you, you need a plus cough

Yeah I may had been more happy with the Plus BUT I am happy with the PB12-NSD. Two of them would really have to be awesome. However, it will be take a while before I can get another. Perhaps sometime in July or August. It all depends on if I decide to go ahead and upgrade my receiver first. Too bad we all only have so much money to work with. My family is always telling me if I won the Lottery that I would spend most of it on "Audio Stuff" and to be honest they are right................LOL!!!!!

 

[j_garcia]

If I won the lottery, audio gear would be right up there on my list too

I would experiment with the x-over point and placement to see if that changes response any, as it could be somewhat room related as well. The PB-10 sounds more prominent higher up because you don't have as much at the bottom as you do with the PB-12, but if you look at the charts for each, their curves are quite similar.

 

[speakerman39]

If I won the lottery, audio gear would be right up there on my list too

I would experiment with the x-over point and placement to see if that changes response any, as it could be somewhat room related as well. The PB-10 sounds more prominent higher up because you don't have as much at the bottom as you do with the PB-12, but if you look at the charts for each, their curves are quite similar.

Yeah Erik K at SVS told me the PB12-NSD would do everything the PB10 would do BUT with more of it. Just like you said their respective response curves are very similiar. I will spend some time and play with the X-over point as well as placement to see what happens. Right now it is in the front left hand corner of my living room close to my fronts. That is where the PB10 sounded best. I may try the back left hand corner which is to the immediate left of my seating position as my couch is against the back wall. When I tried the PB10 there I did not find it to sound any better or add any more punch. Figured the PB12 would yield the same result but one never knows. My plan is to take my time as it weighs like 75 lbs. and is also kinda bulky. Thanks for the suggestions. Have a good day John.

 

[Ron Temple]

Corner placement is likely the culprit. I was getting in excess of 10dbs below 35hz in the back left corner. This will drown out the mid bass dip that most rooms feature. Calibration will probably drop your gain/trim a db or 2...see how it sounds, then if still a bit slow, try it between your mains.

 

[speakerman39]

Hi Ron, I messed w/some of the settings a bit and yielded much better results. For one, I turned the bass level on my receiver up a full db and increased the X-over to 100 Hz. Yes, I am aware that by increasing the X-over will result in a more localized sound. However, the trade-off is gaining a bit more output within the 40-100 Hz range. I also pulled it out from the corner a bit and I turned the gain up to about 2/3rds-things improved dramatically. My living room is filled with levels of clean bass that the PB10-NSD was not able to output. Not that it was any slouch BUT the PB12-NSD just does it better. Things have tightened up a lot BUT w/music the PB10is still a bit better. At least now, I can live with the results I am getting. I also watched a couple of movies today and the PB12-NSD is absolutely amazing to say the least. I feel like I have made the right decision and it looks like (1) PB12-NSD will be plenty. Who knows, I may get another in a couple of months. Dual PB12-NSDs would have to be monsterous. Thanks for everyone's help especially you John. I also want to thank SVS for building such an impressive product. The build quality is as equally impressive.