is the professional correct?

[mathman]

Hi,

i'm a newbee so thanks for putting up with my ?'s.

I've wired the basement for the HT but wanted to bring in an expert to give it a once over. he surprised me with his suggestion of going with a projector and not a large TV. I stated that my concern is that there may be a fair amount of light in the room with the wetbar and pool table occupied at the same time as a movie/TV is on. My thought is that the light from these areas, while not shining directly on the screen, would degrade the picture quality. I explained that the quality of the picture was more important to me than screen size. Anywooo, i'd would appreciate it if you could provide you thoughts? BTW, from screen to seating can be a max of 16ft but could be a little as 12ft, ceiling is about 9.5ft tall, width is 23ft (but we don't plan to use all 23ft for the HT area). thank you!

 

[jaxvon]

Hi,

i'm a newbee so thanks for putting up with my ?'s.

I've wired the basement for the HT but wanted to bring in an expert to give it a once over. he surprised me with his suggestion of going with a projector and not a large TV. I stated that my concern is that there may be a fair amount of light in the room with the wetbar and pool table occupied at the same time as a movie/TV is on. My thought is that the light from these areas, while not shining directly on the screen, would degrade the picture quality. I explained that the quality of the picture was more important to me than screen size. Anywooo, i'd would appreciate it if you could provide you thoughts? BTW, from screen to seating can be a max of 16ft but could be a little as 12ft, ceiling is about 9.5ft tall, width is 23ft (but we don't plan to use all 23ft for the HT area). thank you!

Unless you opt for an expensive new screen technology, your thinking was correct. You need darkness for a good picture from a projector. I'm sure you've been to bars where they have huge projection screens that look like crap because there is too much light in the room. So I would vote big TV.

 

[AVRat]

Ditto, go with the TV, at 12' go as big as you can afford. Toshiba and JVC offer the most size/$ and provide excellent performance. http://hometheatermag.com/rearprojectiontvs/207rptvface/

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would offer a counter concept that is something that you should consider and take a look at. You see, front projection looks good as long as no ambient light is falling on the screen. If you are in a basement setup where you have control over your lighting that is falling on the screen then you can achieve excellent results on a 100" screen - or even larger - as long as you are using directional lighting instead of lamps and flood lighting.

http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html

Since your question is hardly unique, I wanted to really put it to the test with my 4 year old projector that carries fairly low lumen numbers - maybe a couple hundred - on a grey screen (.8 gain). Now, you see what things can look like with a fair amount of light in the room and how that affects image quality, you can make a more informed decision about what you would prefer.

I can tell you though, that if it required a minimal effort to go from a $3,000 50" plasma or 60" rear projection unit to a $3,000 or so 100"+ front projection setup, then I would be looking for ways to get the most image for my money.

 

[mathman]

great feedback! thank you all!

by the way your feedback makes me wonder if this professional heard what i said @ all.

 

[mtrycrafts]

great feedback! thank you all!

by the way your feedback makes me wonder if this professional heard what i said @ all.

I am sure he did, just that he didn't ask the right question: how much degradation can you put up with from max quality.

When the kids are not playing while watching, you would enjoy a better picture in the dark.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I would offer a counter concept that is something that you should consider and take a look at. You see, front projection looks good as long as no ambient light is falling on the screen. If you are in a basement setup where you have control over your lighting that is falling on the screen then you can achieve excellent results on a 100" screen - or even larger - as long as you are using directional lighting instead of lamps and flood lighting.

http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html

Since your question is hardly unique, I wanted to really put it to the test with my 4 year old projector that carries fairly low lumen numbers - maybe a couple hundred - on a grey screen (.8 gain). Now, you see what things can look like with a fair amount of light in the room and how that affects image quality, you can make a more informed decision about what you would prefer.

I can tell you though, that if it required a minimal effort to go from a $3,000 50" plasma or 60" rear projection unit to a $3,000 or so 100"+ front projection setup, then I would be looking for ways to get the most image for my money.

That is a great demo link, thanks. Some could redirect the light even more in planning and have less light on the screen and still have plenty for the kids.

 

[BMXTRIX]

That is a great demo link, thanks. Some could redirect the light even more in planning and have less light on the screen and still have plenty for the kids.

I think it's an excellent example of what many people end up with as overblown misconceptions of just how much light can be on in the room and still retain a very high quality image on screen with front projection.

Keep in mind, when the lights are on in the room, the closest ones, that don't fall directly on the screen, but are above my couch, are only about 8 or 9 feet away. In a basement like the one described above, it would be possible for the 'theater' area to be a near cave while the rest of the area is lit up with near daylight conditions.

I can run about 200 watts or more of halogen lighting in my family room before I would call it anything more than barely noticable on screen. By todays standards, my projector would cost about 300 bucks or so... So, a new AX100 from Panasonic would deliver a lot more bang for about $1,500... pair it up with a Carada Brilliant White screen for under $1,000 and you have over a 100" diagonal for under 3 grand...

The key is making sure to use directional recessed ceiling lights.

 

[pikers]

I would honestly tell you as a former consultant that FP isn't worth the effort/degradation in PQ unless the room is dedicated. For multipurpose environments like this, I would consider a 50" LCD panel, which is more tolerant of ambient light and virtually immune to burn-in. This takes care of the room's lighting concerns, as it does kids' viewing habits/video games.

I don't think the guy you spoke to had enough experience in real environments, dealing with real people--but he was right in theory that it *could* work OK. "OK" isn't good enough though.

 

[mathman]

here is the equipment he is recommending (i sure hope he isn't a member of this board!!!)

• 
  DA-light 92"
  Sharpvision XVZ 3100 HD DLP projector
  samsung BDP-1200 blu-ray
  Truaudio HT66A in wall flush mount HT speakers
  Truaudio Sur.1 surround rear channel in celiling
  yamaha rxv 797 7.1
  (i didn't see the center speaker listed so i have to check)
  
  
  
  any comments on the above would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mtrycrafts]

here is the equipment he is recommending (i sure hope he isn't a member of this board!!!)

• 
  DA-light 92"
  Sharpvision XVZ 3100 HD DLP projector
  samsung BDP-1200 blu-ray
  Truaudio HT66A in wall flush mount HT speakers
  Truaudio Sur.1 surround rear channel in celiling
  yamaha rxv 797 7.1
  (i didn't see the center speaker listed so i have to check)
  any comments on the above would be greatly appreciated.

Where is the HD-DVD player?
I would hold off on a hi-def DVD, I am for price drops on a couple of them, or one universal player for both formats.

How large is your room? That screen may be too small if you are going front projection, a reason one does that, large picture.

 

[AVRat]

Do you live in eastern Europe or Russia, because doing a net search for the Yamaha RX-V797 seems to be where that model is sold, otherwise never heard of it. There is however a RX-797 which is a stereo receiver, not what you want! TruAudio speakers have been mentioned here before, but they’re not well known. Like Mtrycrafts suggested, it’s probably best to skip the BD/HD-DVD player for now unless you really want it.

 

[BMXTRIX]

DA-light 92"

Dalite and Draper have very similar quality screens, but it should be noted that a Carada screen (fixed frame) costs less at full MSRP than either Dalite or Draper can touch.

At a 12' viewing distance, the proper screen size is about 110" diagonal, not 92" diagonal. You are well under what I would recommend in your situation. A Carada Brilliant White screen will run you about $890.00 shipped to your door.

http://www.carada.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=PROJECTION-SCREEN-H110C

Sharpvision XVZ 3100 HD DLP projector

I have seen pretty good results with the Sharp projectors, but I'm not sure how much this model really stands above the Optoma HD70 which is $1,000. Likewise, the Panasonic AX100U is about $1,500 and is a very versatile projector for both setup and brightness. If you aren't going 1080p, then I might opt for a slightly cheaper projection setup over a (barely) nicer projector.

samsung BDP-1200 blu-ray

If you want HD disc formats, then it isn't a bad choice, but I would strongly consider holding off for a year until the HD disc wars have played out a bit more. If you really want HD discs, then perhaps a PS3 or X-Box 360 w/HD DVD add on will work for you. Bottom line is that going with either Blu-ray Disc or HD DVD right at this moment is a gamble. But, as a PS3 owner, and a person who has critically evaluated HD DVD, I can say that the QUALITY from either format is truly amazing on a 110" screen.

Truaudio HT66A in wall flush mount HT speakers
Truaudio Sur.1 surround rear channel in celiling

I'm unfamilar with these speakers, so won't comment. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for with ceiling speakers. If you have the option of going in-wall or on-wall you can often get a lot more bang for your buck in overall audio quality. But, this isn't always feasible I'm aware.

yamaha rxv 797 7.1

Likewise, I haven't heard of/seen this receiver and their website doesn't list it anywhere except here...
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200028&CTID=5000600
and it is DEFINITELY a stereo receiver, not a surround receiver.
For $550.00 you can do a fair bit better... from Yamaha even:
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=547398&CTID=5000300

Other companies including Denon and Pioneer will have similar offerings.

Of course, you still have to add labor and you have to consider that part of the labor costs may be offset by MSRP pricing, which can (fairly) affect the bottom line.

 

[pzaur]

mathman,
If you are considering a projector, you definitely do NOT want a DLP projector in a room that is not darkened for viewing. You'll want to check out the LCD projectors.

We use these (LCD) all the time in our classrooms at school and have no noticeable issues with picture quality (birghtness/wash out). The lights in the classrooms are not turned off and most of the rooms have open (unshaded) windows. When a DLP projector is used the picture is washed out and difficult to view. Our Technology Specialist at the school only recommends LCD projectors for this particular reason. There was one DLP projector at the school which has since been retired in favor of the LCDs.

Of course, we're not watching movies on the projectors, but using them to project the computer screen onto a larger screen.

-pat

 

[mathman]

Hey...
this is still a work in progress, but the latest system i heard was a ARCAM AVR 300 (it may have been a 350) combined with Vandersteens 2CEs. they sounded great, but i would like to know what people think of these items.

Also, a major problem we have is that there are VERY few dealers in the Tacoma/Seattle area that carry better than average equip to listen to, so it is very hard to list to several systems and compare. Any ideas???

 

[Hi Ho]

If you are considering a projector, you definitely do NOT want a DLP projector in a room that is not darkened for viewing. You'll want to check out the LCD projectors.

I would have to dissagree. I have a Mitsubishi HD1000 DLP and I am still blown away by its ability to produce a very good picture in broad daylight. I don't normally use mine in those conditions but It would work good at a Super Bowl party or something.

http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/Hi_Ho/Projector/?action=view&current=CIMG9656.jpg

It is more washed out in the photo than in person. Of course, not all DLP projectors are created equal but my experience with mine and other DLP projectors is that they are capable of putting out just as much brightness as LCD models.

With that said, I would definetely recommend putting the HD1000 or HD3000 on the table for consideration.

 

[BMXTRIX]

mathman,
If you are considering a projector, you definitely do NOT want a DLP projector in a room that is not darkened for viewing. You'll want to check out the LCD projectors.

Pat - I'm not sure where you got this information from, but it is 100% inaccurate. DLP and LCD are very comparible for image quality and brightness, and overall, DLP often edges out DLP for both of these items. DLP usually costs a bit more to get the same versatility that DLP offers, so care must be taken when considering any projector for home theater.

My biggest factor between DLP and LCD is price and placement. The HD1000 previously mentioned or Optoma HD70 is a great choice, but if there are low ceilings in the room, then it won't work perfectly due to the lack of lens shift on the projector. In a room with 9 foot ceilings, these projectors can work phenomenally.

As for the OPs questions on speakers and receivers... It is just a tough one. A good store will have a good return policy, but you will pay a bit more for that benefit.

Axiom Audio and a few other online eTailers offer very good return policies for excellent speakers that you may want to try out in your setup.