New HT, looking for comments or suggestions

[Pheaton]

Hi all,
I am starting the process of adding a HT to my newly refinished basement. This is my first serious HT and I am still new to this forum and mid- to high-end audio. I have been doing lots of research on line and will be going to many b&m stores to audition as many speakers as I can. The room will be used 50/50 for movies/music. Sound quality is important to both myself and my wife. Here are some details of the set-up;

1. Room Dimensions: 22' long by 12' wide Seating will be around 12' from the screen.

2. Speakers: I am looking at on-wall for all of the speakers due to a very active 2 yr old. He has already come close to knocking over a Def Tech BP 2006 tower upstairs in the living room, so I don't want a repeat in the basement. The on-wall issue has been giving me the most trouble with research, just not a lot of it out there, at least that I have found. I also expect that I will have problems auditioning on-walls too, but who knows, maybe I will get lucky. I will be looking for a 7.1 set-up and the budget is $4000 for the speakers.

3. Receiver: 4306 Denon. I currently have a 2802 right now and have been happy with it. I like the ability to connect to a PC on the 4306 and I hope to add a PC to act as a music server/storage device in the future. Reciever Budget $2000

4. Projector: Least amount of research done in this area. Right now I am leaning towards the Panasonic 1000. Seems to be giving the most bang for the buck in the 1080p range of projectors. But I have not yet seen it, and I am still trying to figure out how to arrange some sort of shoot-out between several 1080p projectors. Projector Budget $4000-$5000

5. Screen: Right now I have no clue as to model or make, but I do want it to be motorized and retractable. 2 yr old + crayons = bad for screen Screen Budget ?

6. DVD player: Really not sure here. One that plays all formats; DVD, CD, SACD,... sounds good, and the Denon 3910CI sound like it might fit the bill, but it is pricey and that might push me over budget with everything else I want to get. DVD player Budget ?

Sorry for the long post, but I just want to try to give you all the info I can up front. Does anyone see any problems or am I making a bad move somewhere?

Any thoughts about on-wall speakers in that price range?

Thanks in advance for all your help, it is much appreciated,

Pheaton

 

[avaserfi]

While I cant speak for most areas of your post I do know that the oppo DV-981HD is a great dvd player that plays pretty much every format and doesnt cost an arm and a leg. Retail is around 230 and its worth every penny.

Check out the link in my sig goes straight to the official page.

 

[Warpdrv]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=827979&highlight=inwall

Alot of company's offer in walls that aren't too bad...

Triad, Paradigm, Speakercraft, B&W

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30966

do your homework...

Good Luck

 

[AVRat]

Stick with Def Tech: Mythos 8s up front, BP2X for the sides, and Mythos Gems for the rear. Minimally, go for an HSU VTF-2 MK3 or SVS PB12-NSD sub.

 

[mazersteven]

Stick with Def Tech: Mythos 8s up front, BP2X for the sides, and Mythos Gems for the rear. Minimally, go for an HSU VTF-2 MK3 or SVS PB12-NSD sub.

Not a fan of the Mythos speakers. Sounded flat and lifeless to me. Mids where shallow. JMO

Auditioned at a audio boutique store.

 

[mazersteven]

For $4K I would look seriously at Triad in-walls if that's an option.

Maybe for on-walls these

http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/range.php?range=4

or these

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.ranges/Label/Range FPM Series

 

[Pheaton]

Speaker Update #1

Hi all,
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I went out with the wife today to audition some speakers. The first shop we went too had 4 nice little cubicles with a different setup in each. We decided to listen to the B&W FPM 4 and a 650 sub (might have the model # wrong there.) that were set up there. We both thought that they were pretty clear in the high and mid range but very lacking in the bass. We used Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, and the 'watcher in the water' scene from Fellowship of the Ring. We moved to the next cube over and listened to a set of Klipsh on wall with a 500W 10' sub (Don't remember the model numbers) Very underwhelmed with these. No where near as clear as the B&W's. Quick conclusion; B&W FPM4 might work with a different sub, but no WOW factor.

Moved on to look at projectors at the same place. Looked at the Yamaha 720p and the colors were not rich. Pixelation on text, overall not a great image.

So on to store number 2, conveniently located 2 blocks down the street;

Talked with the sales guy and stated that we were interested in on-walls.... He says that he only has one brand to show me. Gallo Reference 3.1 which are not on wall, but he thought that the Reference AV center that was would give us a good idea of how they would sound. (I am not convinced about that, but we gave a listen anyways) So start off with good old Stravinsky and they are nice, in fact very nice. Better clarity than the B&W's with a much better bass line. Move on to Carmina Burana. Still nice. Move to Dead can Dance, it is with this that I begin to notice sounds that I have not heard before. Also the bass line is tight and responsive. Starting to feel some WOW. My wife, who has better ears than I do, turns to me and says, "These are definitely better than what we have at home." Okay, lets hear some more; next it is Joe Satriani. Here the bass line is muddy. Sales guy says that it is the recording. Move on to Steve Vai, on Firegarden Suite the guitar was much more pronounced on the Gallo's than on my system at home. Finally we get to Macross Plus Soundtrack. Again we both hear things that we have not heard before in this recording. Quick conclusion; we like, but want to actually hear the Reference AV on-walls. Sales guy says he will contact the supplier to see if he can get those in. Cool.

Projectors were next; Looked at a Sharp 720p and the new Epson 1080p. Hands down the Epson blew the sharp out of the water. Image was striking. Colors were deep while the image was crisp. Watched Discovery HD to do this test.

Next on the list are Vienna Acoustic and Sonus Fabers (These are probably out of the price range)

BTW, I read the AMG_Roadster thread, and by the end of this I promise that I will not leave you hanging as to what system I go with. (Those that care, anyways )

Comments, Suggestions, or Concerns still welcome,

Pheaton

 

[AVRat]

Just curious, what is the price on the Gallo Reference AVs? I had seen MSRP of $1,200 each.

 

[Pheaton]

Just curious, what is the price on the Gallo Reference AVs? I had seen MSRP of $1,200 each.

Hi,
We did not discuss price of individual speakers, but I gave him my $4k budget, and he said he thought he could get close to that. My plan is to wait for him to get a pair of Reference AV's and then go back for a second listen. I will get actual pricing then. When I find out more I will let you know.

By the way I forgot to mention that the setup was using a NAD receiver and DVD player. Does anyone have experience with NAD's? For or against? How do they compare to Denon?

Thanks,

Pheaton

 

[Driving_Hamster]

I too am looking at 1080p PJ's. I have heard some really great word of mouth on the new Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 projector. I am trying to find a dealer in my area that has one set up so I can preview it. It will likely will be the way that I will go when the time comes.

Enjoy your search! Let us know what you select.

 

[cjschrot]

i haven't been doing this long, but the Panasonic PTAE1000U has a great 1080p projector. If you check the specs vs. others I think they are favorable and the picture looks great (even on a textured tan wall).

I also like the carada screens (good value for the money).

CJ

 

[Pheaton]

Speaker Update #2

Hi all,
Speaker audition #2,
First up; Def Tech Mythos 3 as R/L, Mythos 2 as Center, BPX as surrounds, and Super Cube II as sub; These sounded okay, but not great. Started off with the gems as the surround, but did not like the variation in sound as you moved around the room. So we switched to the BPX and they were better. The mains and the center channel sounded about the same as the B&W FPM 4 from day one, which was pretty good. The super cube was a disappointment.

Second was NHT 3 as R/L, no center channel, no surrounds, Velodyne 8' sub. This one was difficult to get a good feel. The NHT's sounded good and the sub was good too, but without surrounds and center hard to make a comparision. The dealer had suffered some water damage to the store, that is why no center or surrounds. I think I would like to give these another chance with the full system.

Third was Vienna Acousitcs the wall mount series (Schoneberg, Waltz, etc.) Going in I had high hopes for these, but came away very disappointed. The highs drowned out everything. While listening to Carmina Burana you could not here the alto voices at all. On the positive side the Schonenbergs probably had the best bass so far with out a sub.

Fourth was Linn. Going in I had not heard of these, but the sales guy thought that they might fill the role we are interested in. I did not get the model on these but they were wall mountable. But they too were disappointing. With this set I did not hear the same clarity as either the Gallo, B&W, or even the Def Techs. The bass was also very muddy to my ears (wifes ears too).

Last was B&W XT2 as R/L, XTC as center LM1 as surrounds and SV1 as the sub. We both liked these better than the FPM 4 from before but we are very concerned about using these in our space. Just don't think they will be able to handle the room.

We are actually a little down after today. It just seems that we are not able to find tower quality sound in an on-wall. (While still staying within budget) We may have to rethink 7.1 and maybe drop to 5.1 to maximize our dollars. Also as I thought when we started this, it is difficult to audition the on-walls due to the set-up's in the stores.

On the projector side of things, we did see the Sim2 Domino 80 1080p projector and WOW It was awesome. The colors were superior to the epson and the clarity was just incredible. BUT, I am beginning to hate this word, the cost was $10k which is double of the projector budget. So for all of you with $10k to spend on a projector, go check that one out.

Our next hope with speakers are RBH, triads, and Vandersteen. Just have to find dealers for these brands close to us.

So the journey continues.....

Pheaton

 

[solomr2]

Hi all,
Speaker audition #2,
First up; Def Tech Mythos 3 as R/L, Mythos 2 as Center, BPX as surrounds, and Super Cube II as sub; These sounded okay, but not great. Started off with the gems as the surround, but did not like the variation in sound as you moved around the room. So we switched to the BPX and they were better. The mains and the center channel sounded about the same as the B&W FPM 4 from day one, which was pretty good. The super cube was a disappointment.

Second was NHT 3 as R/L, no center channel, no surrounds, Velodyne 8' sub. This one was difficult to get a good feel. The NHT's sounded good and the sub was good too, but without surrounds and center hard to make a comparision. The dealer had suffered some water damage to the store, that is why no center or surrounds. I think I would like to give these another chance with the full system.

Third was Vienna Acousitcs the wall mount series (Schoneberg, Waltz, etc.) Going in I had high hopes for these, but came away very disappointed. The highs drowned out everything. While listening to Carmina Burana you could not here the alto voices at all. On the positive side the Schonenbergs probably had the best bass so far with out a sub.

Fourth was Linn. Going in I had not heard of these, but the sales guy thought that they might fill the role we are interested in. I did not get the model on these but they were wall mountable. But they too were disappointing. With this set I did not hear the same clarity as either the Gallo, B&W, or even the Def Techs. The bass was also very muddy to my ears (wifes ears too).

Last was B&W XT2 as R/L, XTC as center LM1 as surrounds and SV1 as the sub. We both liked these better than the FPM 4 from before but we are very concerned about using these in our space. Just don't think they will be able to handle the room.

We are actually a little down after today. It just seems that we are not able to find tower quality sound in an on-wall. (While still staying within budget) We may have to rethink 7.1 and maybe drop to 5.1 to maximize our dollars. Also as I thought when we started this, it is difficult to audition the on-walls due to the set-up's in the stores.

On the projector side of things, we did see the Sim2 Domino 80 1080p projector and WOW It was awesome. The colors were superior to the epson and the clarity was just incredible. BUT, I am beginning to hate this word, the cost was $10k which is double of the projector budget. So for all of you with $10k to spend on a projector, go check that one out.

Our next hope with speakers are RBH, triads, and Vandersteen. Just have to find dealers for these brands close to us.

So the journey continues.....

Pheaton

In my experience, the smaller on-wall mythos didn't cut it for me either. However, the mythos-1 towers really shined for me. I ended up going with gems for surrounds, mythos-3 for center, and the supercube 2.

I would have preferred the supercube 1, but it was nearly twice the cost. Eventually, I would like to upgrade the gems to mythos-2, and use the gems elsewhere for zone 3. But really, with the Mythos-1 mains and mythos-3 center, together with the supercube 2, the sound was quite natural and precise, the soundstage was big, and overall the sound was warm and very rich, especially with music. They're not as impressive with movies, but that was a reasonable compromise for me since 80-90% of my listening is music.

However, with your $4000 budget, the on-wall mythos are way below your means, unless maybe you're going for dual subs.

 

[jcPanny]

New HT

Also check out the new JVC 1080p PJ for $5k.
http://www.visualapex.com/lcdprojectors/LCD_projectors_details.asp?VA=JVC-DLA-RS1U&chPartNumber=DLA-RS1U

Some outriggers added to floorstanding speakers would make them more stable and kid friendly. You could use something similar to bolt the speakers to the floor.
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/furniture/speaker-and-display-mounts/soundocity-outrigger-review

If you are considering floorstanders for 2 channel music, check out the Onix Strata Minis. You could add the Ref 100 center and Ref 1's and a sub to finish off the HT.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would second that recommendation that you take a long hard look at the new JVC 1080p front projector as reviews across the board seem to be glowing for this model. Another consideration is the BenQ W10000 which has received high praise and solid reviews as well as it carrying a solid warranty which is always a plus for projectors.

For audio - so much is personal preference, but I would recommend that you look at the Mythos 8 line, not the 2/3 line as the 8s use the same driver array (I believe) as the Mythos 1 series. It seems that most other companies, including B&W, are copying their on-wall design from Def-Tech so I'm not sure how much better you are going to get with this type of design.

For a screen... Well, if it is going to be motorized, then it should be a tab-tesnioned motorized model and it really should be from one of the big three manufuacturers to ensure quality. That means Da-Lite, Draper, or Stewart Filmscreen.

Keep in mind: A 106" diagonal Draper Premiere tab-tensioned motorized screen will run you about $2,000
TWO Carada Criterion fixed 106" Brilliant White screens will run about $1,700. So, it would cost less to take the chance on a couple of fixed screens compared to a single motorized setup.

 

[AVRat]

Looks like BMXTRIX beat me to the punch regarding the difference in the Mythos 8s, which is why I initially recommended them instead of the 2s/3.

 

[mjhamre]

Gallo AV comments

Talked with the sales guy and stated that we were interested in on-walls.... He says that he only has one brand to show me. Gallo Reference 3.1 which are not on wall, but he thought that the Reference AV center that was would give us a good idea of how they would sound.

I have the Reference AVs across the front. Like you I was having trouble finding high quality on wall speakers. I have not heard the Ref 3.1s, but the AVs are definitely designed to be integrated with a Sub, something to keep in mind during your audition. I'm very happy with these speakers so far, they are on stands for now, will be wall mounted in the new place. The Alison Kraus and Union Station Live CD was part of my test CD, and I thought they gave the most natural rendition of the live experience that I heard while demoing, including some floorstanders. It was not a side by side demo, but I did think that Piano (3rd movement of Moonlight) sounded more natural on the Vienna Acoustics floorstanders (Mozart I think), so you may want to include some of your favorite piano passages when you are testing. On a side note, those aluminum grills are very hardy, when my Nintendo Wii controllers go flying the only thing I will have to worry about will be the plasma...

The one thing that they do not handle well in my opinion is off axis response in the vertical axis. I can listen to the L&R from a huge angle and still have them sound pretty good because of the cylinder tweeter design, but stand up and they do not sound the same. When I was listening at the dealer he had them set up low and I actually sat on the ground because I noticed this. I'm going to mount all three of them at ear level when I am sitting on the couch, but it would definitely be something to think about if you wind up with a big projection screen and want the side speakers way above ear level.

The center channel off axis horizontal response is great over the window that they don't have blocked off, but the other day I gave friends the best seat for a basketball game and wound up sitting WAY to the side (probalby 70 degrees off of center). Center channel dialog was very hard to hear. Switched to stereo and even though I was 40-50 degrees off of the right speaker it sounded great. In fact we have a computer that in the current rental house is about 80 degrees off axis on the left speaker and it sounds amazingly good considering. For most setups the window on the center channel (they list it as 120 degrees) is probalby fine, but if you have figured out your couch layout you should definitely listen at the dealers with strong center channel dialog from all the angles you would want to sound good.

Good luck finding something that you are happy with.

--Matt

 

[Pheaton]

I would second that recommendation that you take a long hard look at the new JVC 1080p front projector as reviews across the board seem to be glowing for this model. Another consideration is the BenQ W10000 which has received high praise and solid reviews as well as it carrying a solid warranty which is always a plus for projectors.

For audio - so much is personal preference, but I would recommend that you look at the Mythos 8 line, not the 2/3 line as the 8s use the same driver array (I believe) as the Mythos 1 series. It seems that most other companies, including B&W, are copying their on-wall design from Def-Tech so I'm not sure how much better you are going to get with this type of design.

For a screen... Well, if it is going to be motorized, then it should be a tab-tesnioned motorized model and it really should be from one of the big three manufuacturers to ensure quality. That means Da-Lite, Draper, or Stewart Filmscreen.

Keep in mind: A 106" diagonal Draper Premiere tab-tensioned motorized screen will run you about $2,000
TWO Carada Criterion fixed 106" Brilliant White screens will run about $1,700. So, it would cost less to take the chance on a couple of fixed screens compared to a single motorized setup.

Hi all,
I will try to check out the JVC if I can find a dealer near me. I wish I could have heard the Mythos 8's, but the dealer did not have them. As AV-Rat pointed out early on they would probably be the ones I would be interested in. I will still try to find someone that has them and give a listen.

Thanks for the screen info. I did not realize the price difference between motorized and fixed. Something that I will have to think about.

Does anyone have any experience with the Triad Bronze On-walls? I think they are in the same price range as the Gallo's, Def Techs, and B&W's. Just wondering if anyone has heard them.

Thanks again for all the comments,

Pheaton

 

[Pheaton]

I have the Reference AVs across the front. Like you I was having trouble finding high quality on wall speakers. I have not heard the Ref 3.1s, but the AVs are definitely designed to be integrated with a Sub, something to keep in mind during your audition. I'm very happy with these speakers so far, they are on stands for now, will be wall mounted in the new place. The Alison Kraus and Union Station Live CD was part of my test CD, and I thought they gave the most natural rendition of the live experience that I heard while demoing, including some floorstanders. It was not a side by side demo, but I did think that Piano (3rd movement of Moonlight) sounded more natural on the Vienna Acoustics floorstanders (Mozart I think), so you may want to include some of your favorite piano passages when you are testing. On a side note, those aluminum grills are very hardy, when my Nintendo Wii controllers go flying the only thing I will have to worry about will be the plasma...

The one thing that they do not handle well in my opinion is off axis response in the vertical axis. I can listen to the L&R from a huge angle and still have them sound pretty good because of the cylinder tweeter design, but stand up and they do not sound the same. When I was listening at the dealer he had them set up low and I actually sat on the ground because I noticed this. I'm going to mount all three of them at ear level when I am sitting on the couch, but it would definitely be something to think about if you wind up with a big projection screen and want the side speakers way above ear level.

The center channel off axis horizontal response is great over the window that they don't have blocked off, but the other day I gave friends the best seat for a basketball game and wound up sitting WAY to the side (probalby 70 degrees off of center). Center channel dialog was very hard to hear. Switched to stereo and even though I was 40-50 degrees off of the right speaker it sounded great. In fact we have a computer that in the current rental house is about 80 degrees off axis on the left speaker and it sounds amazingly good considering. For most setups the window on the center channel (they list it as 120 degrees) is probalby fine, but if you have figured out your couch layout you should definitely listen at the dealers with strong center channel dialog from all the angles you would want to sound good.

Good luck finding something that you are happy with.

--Matt

Hi all,
Thanks for the info, I have decided that if the dealer can get a pair of AV's then they will get a second listen. But it will be helpful to check on the vertical axis when I go back.

Pheaton

 

[corey]

As a side note, remember that your "very active 2 yr old" will be 2 for a lot less time than you will own these speakers.