Speaker Recommendations for Accoustical Nightmare of a Room

[FunkIncubator]

I have accepted the task of researching A/V products for my parents' new home, which is nearing the end of construction. They displayed their (uninformed) desire for high-end equipment when they dropped $12K at the Bose boutique. Luckily, I was able to convince them to return it all and we've been piecing it all together over the last few months.

The main remaining purchase is the 5.1 speaker setup in the living room/home theater. I was ready to sell them on Axiom speakers when I began to recognize the severe difficulties of the room's accoustics. Before I describe the room, let me pose my question: Given the room's dimensions/accoustical properties, would it be a waste to purchase a $1500 Axiom setup if the room is going to make it sound like a $200 HTIB?

The room: The living room is completely open to the kitchen with hardwood floor throughout. From the primary listening position, the kitchen is to the left. The couch will most likely be positioned directly against the back wall, about 15' from the TV. The ceiling starts at 8' height at the right wall, but it's vaulted to a peak of 12' between the living room and kitchen. The ceiling is faced with hardwood as well.

My greatest fear is that the room's accoustics will make the Axioms sound so bad, they'll wish they'd kept the Bose (which sounded great in their accoustically sound demo theater with nothing to compare to). Another speaker option I recently discovered is the Hsu Ventriloquist, which is under $600. Would we be better off saving $1K going this rout if the room is as awful as I think? Thanks for the help.

 

[jaxvon]

Go for the best speakers your can afford on the budget (this does not include a sub). I would recommend auditioning Vandersteen. I would also try to convince them to invest in an area rug for the room if they don't already have one. I would also work on getting some acoustical treatments for the ceiling and walls. Good broadband absorbers that work with your decor should be fairly easy to find and not overly expensive. For a subwoofer, I would recommend Hsu or SVS, as they present the highest value in subwoofers that I know of. You could end up with a killer audio system for half the price they paid for the Bose (and actually, even less). Before discussing electronics, go out and find speakers you like or at least do some auditioning. Speakers and room acoustics are by far the most important choices you can make towards achieving good sound. Your choices of receiver and whatnot should fit into the budget after the speakers.

 

[FunkIncubator]

Thanks for the input. I'm well aware that they can get something much better than Bose for far less, that's what convinced them to return it all. The attractiveness of the setup is a huge consideration, so my options for accoustic treatments are limited. Hopefully we'll be able to do a couple panels on the back wall, and there will be a rug on the floor. Can any of you accoustic experts tell me whether the room, as is, will make a hi-fi setup like Axiom sound like garbage?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I dont have a single soft thing in my house and my system sounds great. I have a huge room that opens into the kitchen and two hallways (~8000 cubic ft), hardwood floors, Tile kitchen, granite counters, high ceilings and leather furniture. I was expecting to spend a lot of money on Accoustic treatment but have not added anything. I will put down an area rug when we find the right one and I am sure it would sound better with treatment but dont be overly concerned; get the good stuff and it will sound fine.

 

[GeorgeH]

I'm not an acoustical expert, but I'll second Greg's feedback. I have a setup that is similar, but arguably not quite as bad, as your parent's. Living room open to the right to the kitchen, and to the front-right to a vaulted entry way. Living room is carpeted, but the entry way and kitches is hardwood. Ceilings are flat (except for the vaulted entry way). Leather furniture, with couch up against the back wall with some windows directly behind it.

I have Onix Reference 1s as mains, Ref 100 as a center, and a UFW-10 as a sub (still waiting on the surrounds). This is a recent upgrade from an older, two-channel system using TDL bookshelves and no sub. I can say with complete certainty that the Ref1s make for a substantial upgrade over my old system. SQ and imaging is better without question - the upgrade was well worth it. Is it as good as it could be? Obviously not, but the system still sounds better than it did.

So, no, I don't think the room will make the Axiom system sound like a cheapo setup, at least when they are both listened to in the same setting. One thing you should watch for is a spike in the bass repsonse with the main seating position up against the back wall. I get that pretty bad - I've even measured it. Good news is you can control that with the electronics and/or the sub, as long as you are willing to accept a lower bass response elsewhere in the room.

Also, I have read that Axioms are not a good match for a bright room. Perhaps Aperions or Rockets would be a better match?

 

[FunkIncubator]

Thanks guys. I've read a lot of Axiom owners' thoughts about the brightness of the speakers. Some of them say the speakers are just exposing imperfections in the source material, others swear that they are not too bright. Axiom has a 30-day guarantee, so if it is unbearable, we'll have to reconsider. Plus, Axioms seem to be a very good quality for the price, and the custom finish options may be just enough to encourage the leap into Hi-Fi.

I really appreciate the feedback. I was hoping to hear from some folks with similar rooms. Greg's room sounds nearly identical with the granite countertops in the adjoining kitchen. I do anticipate doing some tweaking to the receiver, hopefully the Yamaha (already bought it) setup/EQ utility will be helpful. Did you use it, Greg?

 

[Scott R. Foster]

The system will never perform better than your speakers... but room treatments can have a stunning effect.

The best answer is good speakers, and a rational treatment plan. Any serious "hi-fi" project needs to find a way to fit both in the budget IMO.

My $0.02

 

[Warpdrv]

I whole heartedly agree on some rational thought to acoustic panels or room treatments of some form, and you can do it tastefully...

With that said, let me get this right.... they are going from buying $12K worth of equipment, taking it all back and now you are spending $1500. on Axioms...
I have absolutely no problem with axioms, but isn't there something in the middle ground that you could find.... Seriously?, Now this is just my opinion, but I think you could find some absoulutely beautiful speakers, B&W, Paradigm, Vandersteens, Focal, Canton, Def Tech, Monitor Audio just to name a few...

Speakers are not going to make any difference as to how this room sounds..
I have excatly the same room structure... 8ft to 18 ft ceilings, wood floors.

Acoustic Treatments... Go around and sample speakers, anywhere you can, figure out what sounds the best to you and your parents in their enormous budget and then factor in some pretty nice looking panels.

http://www.auralex.com/sound_absorption_sonosuede/sonosuede.asp
http://www.auralex.com/gallery/images/s3_3.jpg

Maybe you could get one of the forum sponsors to help you on what you could do.. they are great guys here....

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I really appreciate the feedback. I was hoping to hear from some folks with similar rooms. Greg's room sounds nearly identical with the granite countertops in the adjoining kitchen. I do anticipate doing some tweaking to the receiver, hopefully the Yamaha (already bought it) setup/EQ utility will be helpful. Did you use it, Greg?

The only thing I did was run the auto-setup and then adjust the levels and crossover to the correct settings. My sub blended in quite easily (Avia) and I havent had to mess with it much. To be honest I am waiting to see how aesthetically pleasing Warp's room treatment turns out and then I may jump into that. Like I said; it sounds good now but I bet it can sound better.

 

[Warpdrv]

The only thing I did was run the auto-setup and then adjust the levels and crossover to the correct settings. My sub blended in quite easily (Avia) and I havent had to mess with it much. To be honest I am waiting to see how aesthetically pleasing Warp's room treatment turns out and then I may jump into that. Like I said; it sounds good now but I bet it can sound better.

Well with said... I just finished installing my first set of panels from ATS Acoustics. Very happy with the results... VERY..
I'll post in Room acoustics tomorrow, 12 hour day at work, pilllow is calling my name... SLEEP !!

Warp

 

[FunkIncubator]

With that said, let me get this right.... they are going from buying $12K worth of equipment, taking it all back and now you are spending $1500. on Axioms...
I have absolutely no problem with axioms, but isn't there something in the middle ground that you could find....



I need to qualify the $12K claim. That was for a whole-home system. The main system was $3K, which included dvd player, receiver, and speakers. To convince them to return it all, I told them they could get much better sounding speakers for less than that. That is how Axiom's $1500 - $2000 smaller systems fit right in that sweet spot.

I just saw your post on your newly-added panels, I like those. suppose I wanted to make my own: what are they made of besides a frame and some fabric? It can't be that simple, can it?