Yamaha HTR-6090 vs. Harman Kardon AVR-445

[kareem17]

Hey guys in your opinion, which is the better receiver the Yamaha HTR-6090 vs. Harman Kardon AVR-445? All I hear is that the AVR-445 is better because of Harman Kardon using high current amp? but the HTR-6090 has way more wattage? what do you guys think?

 

[no. 5]

"high current" doesn’t mean anything, it's a marketing term created by H/K. Sorry to break it to you.

A watt is a watt, if the Yamaha has more watts, it has more power.

 

[nm2285]

Except that, from what I remember, Yamaha measures their power ratings while powering one channel at a time at 1khz. HK measures their power ratings while powering all 7 channels at the full spectrum. As a result, HKs ratings are lower, but are at least as powerful as the Yamahas. In practice in a normal situation, you'll never use the full power of either.

 

[no. 5]

Yamaha (like everyone but H/K and Outlaw) rates their receivers with two channels driven 20Hz to 20kHz, the RX-V series is advertised as such, but the HTR series is advertised with a two channel driven at 1kHz number.

you are quit correct that H/K uses an all channels driven test to rate their receivers, however, bench tests do provide some interesting data:

H/K AVR330
$799, rated power: 55 watts ACD (seven channels), 65 watts two channels driven.
Bench test: one channel: 95 watts, five channels: 66 watts.
(and it went into protection mode when being tested for 4 ohms )

Denon AVR-2307CI
$800, rated power: 100 watts two channels driven (out of seven).
Bench test: one channel: 140 watts, five channels: 86 watts.
(no trouble driving 4 ohms)

Onkyo TX-SR504
$300, rated power: 75 watts two channels driven (out of seven).
Bench test: five channels: 72 watts.
(and can drive 4 ohms)

It should be noted that the wattage differences in the above receivers do not equate to big volume a deference, and as far as sound quality goes, you’re speakers will have a far bigger impact on the sound.

 

[mike c]

buy the receiver with the features you want ...

 

[no. 5]

I seem to have forgotten to include a Yamaha in my previous post, oh well. I'll through in a Sony for this post.

Yamaha RX-V750
$650, rated power: 100 watts two channels driven (out of seven).
Bench test: 159 watts one channel driven, 65 watts five channels driven.
(can handle 4 ohms)

Sony STR-DE897
$400, rated power: 100 watts two channels driven (out of seven).
Bench test: 149 watts one channel driven, 76 watts five channels driven.
(can also handle 4 ohms)

And I'll second Mike too

 

[WorldLeader]

My Harman Kardon AVR235 (7x55 watts) pushes some hard to drive three way Klipsch speakers pretty easily. I haven't had any problems with it, and I am skeptical of the fact that a similar HK went into protection mode when trying to drive 4 ohm loads. I also see HK receivers for much less than the MSRP (mine was $220)

 

[no. 5]

I am ,skeptical of the fact that a similar HK went into protection mode when trying to drive 4 ohm loads.

The problem presented itself when driving Multichannel test tones into 4 ohms, the receiver was unaffected with single channel test tones at 4 ohms.
and it had no trouble with program material in to 4 ohms.

So, although the AVR330 can handle a 4 ohm load (as long as you’re not playing test tones ), it would seem to be a little less stable at it than some models from other manufactures.

And besides, this is one model; just because the 330 had a bit of difficulty with 4 ohms, does not mean that all H/K's will display instability when faced with a low impedance.

 

[wire]

"high current" doesn’t mean anything, it's a marketing term created by H/K. Sorry to break it to you.

A watt is a watt, if the Yamaha has more watts, it has more power.

Opps
I thought High Current was invented by NAD and Proton ( opps thats Headroom , the abilty for the amp to reach lower ohms , without blowing your speakers ) . Anyhow , the HK will probobly deliver more High Current watts ( Head Room ) than the Yammy and is (hk) equal if not more in real world listining .
So a watt is a watt , depending how you present it .

 

[no. 5]

Opps
I thought High Current was invented by NAD and Proton ( opps thats Headroom , the abilty for the amp to reach lower ohms , without blowing your speakers ) . Anyhow , the HK will probobly deliver more High Current watts ( Head Room ) than the Yammy and is (hk) equal if not more in real world listining .
So a watt is a watt , depending how you present it .

I don't really know that H/K came up with the "High Current" amplifier thing, I just assumed it was H/K because I almost always hear the phrase in connection with H/K.

But as far as a receiver delivering 'high current watts'; to get 50 watts at 8 ohms, it takes 20 volts and 2.5 amps, but with the same 20 volts into 4 ohms, 5 amps would be drawn in the circuit, netting 100 watts at 4 ohms.
And if you wanted 50 watts out of 4 ohms, it would take 10 volts and 2.5 amps, so although 50 watts at 4 or 8 ohms gives you the same power, it gets there with deferent numbers in the equation.
If current (amperage) is changed into a given impedance, then the wattage would change too.

Headroom is amount of reserve power an amplifier has before it clips.


(As I'm not a EE, to those of you that are; please provide corrections if needed )

 

[mike c]

but if this so called high current thing is supposed to give a receiver the ability to reach lower ohms, why then did the HK330 in question go into protection mode using MULTICHAN 4 ohm test tones while the supposed NON high current yamahas and denons did not?

real world all channels driven aside, these 3 receivers were subjected to the same test ... one failed. period. high current BS.

back to the real world then:
what GIVES headroom is the receivers ability to shell out the watts. which gives higher dynamic power: yamaha does, HK doesnt. granted yamaha exaggerates, while HK underrates ... the results does point to the fact that the yamaha was the better receiver in terms of power output. (y657 vs. hk330)

 

[wire]

but if this so called high current thing is supposed to give a receiver the ability to reach lower ohms, why then did the HK330 in question go into protection mode using MULTICHAN 4 ohm test tones while the supposed NON high current yamahas and denons did not?

real world all channels driven aside, these 3 receivers were subjected to the same test ... one failed. period. high current BS.

back to the real world then:
what GIVES headroom is the receivers ability to shell out the watts. which gives higher dynamic power: yamaha does, HK doesnt. granted yamaha exaggerates, while HK underrates ... the results does point to the fact that the yamaha was the better receiver in terms of power output. (y657 vs. hk330)

My Bryston has Headroom , My Carver has Headroom and lots of Current . Ive never blown a tweeter yet (knock on wood ) in my polks and i pushed them hard years ago . Im not sure about this SP3 ( its a different animal to me )
Well maybe HK is like all the rest now . Back when i listin to there equipment it was up to par with NAD . Look at my equipment , i havent had to upgrade in 20 or more years ( again knock on wood ) , So if i listin to a Yammy or anything new in that class , its usally not for long .

 

[Yamahaluver]

My older Yamaha amps and receivers deliver power fine, they never claimed high current, yet the dual mono MX-1000 delivers power into real difficult load NS-1000, so does my latest Z9 and with ease without breaking a sweat, the high current, soft clipping, DPD etc. were more of sales jargon than pure tech, what matters is pure clean power, not headroom, damping, feedback etc.

 

[Yamaholic]

Yamaha HTR-6090

I own a Yamaha HTR-6090 and I could not be more pleased with it. In fact, I am so happy with it that I am commiting the unpardonable audiophile heresy of selling my separate power amplifier and preamplifier to keep the Yamaha.

It is more than powerful enough to drive my Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v3 speakers to silly volume levels without strain. It sounds as good as the Anthem/Rotel combo it is replacing plus it has more features than most people will ever be able to use.

I don't have any personal experience with recent Harman Kardon, but I can give an unequivocal thumbs up to just about anything that Yamaha makes.

Hope this helps.

 

[baseman]

FWIW, While waiting for my infinity's to arrive I hooked my RX-V659 up with my old Advent Smalls from the early 70's which are rated at 4 ohms and are rather inefficient. I drove them for several hours a day for about 2 weeks, sometimes at VERY high levels and experienced no troubles at all. The amp seemed to get hot sooner (maybe), but no hotter overall than it does now driving two Primus 360's and two Primus 150's.