Adding Amp to Yamaha RX-V2600

[indcrimdefense]

ufobuster-

i used to have an all klipsch reference system (RF7 front, RF5 centers run as stereo pair & RF5 surrounds), & tinkered with alot of different components, so perhaps the following will be of some use. the klipsch system was used 1st w/ 2805 powering all, then tried various 2 channel & multichannel amps, & also tried various pre-amp/surround processors as well. adding an external amplifier can make a significant improvement, or it could be no improvement at all. i had success in the klipsch system w/ demos of the following: a B&K 125.2, krell showcase, cary cinema 5 & eventually purchased a krell ksa 2250 to power the RF7 fronts. i could not tell the difference between using the cinema 5 & the ksa2250 on the fronts. also tried rotel & nakamichi amp which sounded worse than using the 2805, klipsch horn tweeters do not work well with all components. the klipsch reference speakers sounded the best w/ the following setup; anthem avm30, cary audio cinema 5 or ksa2250 runnign the RF7. i was searching for better sound quality (particularly with vocals), was not concerned w/ how "loud" the system could play. the other significant improvement was when i bought another pair of RF5 & used as a dual center channel (avm30 allows you to assign different xlr outputs to support 2 center channels). i tried the rc7 but did not buy it, it lacked the punch of having 2 RF5 speakers, & seemed "lost" in between 2 RF7's compared to having dual center channels.

i sold all my klipsch speakers & upgraded to paradigm signature last year, but did enjoy the system while i had it.

my recommendation would be to find a dealer who will allow you to demo components in your home, take them home & try them out before you buy.

in numerous at home demos over the past 3 years, i have heard differences between different amplifiers, and at other times i know i would have failed a double blind test. it depended on which amplifiers & what pre-amp/processor i was using (demoed rotel, krell, cary audio & anthem before i purchased anthem). switching from using a 2805 as a pre/pro to the anthem avm30 was a significant improvement, & i think i posted my side by side comparisons sometime last year. based on my listening experience, all amplifiers do not sound the same, but at times simply switching amplifiers will not result in any improvement. you don't know until you listen for yourself. i recently purchased cary audio 500 M/B monoblocks to replace the ksa 2250 for my sig 8 front speakers, & there is a significant difference between the 2 amplifiers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I look forward to becoming involved in the community.
Chris.

Welcome aboard. Took you long enough

 

[Yamaholic]

Thanks! I've really enjoyed reading everyone else's posts. This is one of the most informative websites I've ever been to.

 

[Jey Jockey]

200wpc x 5 amp added to Yammy2500

I just inserted a new Emotiva MPS1 amp into my system using my Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver as a pre/pro for now. I have a "studio/dedicated HT" which is totally dead accoustically and play my music mostly around 90db and up to 100db if really rockin.The difference in sound is simply stunning, in multi channel audio with a really good DVD audio disc or DTS disc its a joy to behold. There is so much authority and power with that sense of sheer dynamic range its really something to hear, the bass is much cleaner , tighter and deeper. The surround channels are for one, WAY more up to par with the front channels, my multi channel stuff doesn't even sound like the same disc and thats the honest truth.
My Klipsch speaks are rated at 250 RMS but very sensitive at 100db but truly love the extra headroom they are now getting.

Watched the film "Open Range" the other night and the gunfight at the end is like nothing I have ever heard before, simply incredible power and depth in the gunshots it was like getting blasted by the weapon myself, this is another area where a big amp has the reserves for these huge peaks in sound. I was actually laughing and giggling , it was so much fun to hear.

I have also read all the "all amps sound the same" stuff and can say on my sysytem it makes a HUGE difference, even my wife says "holy sh*t" repeatedly...lol.
Flame away you guys with Panasonic HTIB's..and AVR's...been there, aint going back.

The pic is just to give you an idea of part of what my amp is driving.

Chris

 

[mtrycrafts]

Exactly my concern...
My mains are Klipsch RF-7 which really are efficient but do exhibit a tendency to swing to low impedence from what I have read. A lot of Klipsch owners prefer dedicated s/s (Rotel RB1080 has been recommended) or tube amps for this speaker.
The rest of the system: RF-5 for surround, RC-7 center, RSW-10 sub, Yamaha RX-V2600 with "rated" power that should be enough. I use the system for mostly music or concert DVDs. I have DVD-A and SACD playback (Yamaha DVD-C750) and enjoy good DTS and DD discs. I have a large collection of conventional CD so I'm going for real accuracy here and some quality two-channel potential which, again, the Yammi seems to handle fine.
My room is long: about 36', 16 to 18' wide and 9' high. A rather large volume which "soaks up" a lot of sound. My HT area is in one end...I'm about 11 feet away from the mains and center. It really sounds OK. The balance is good. I've already got some serious $$ invested and don't want to fail to develop the most potential from what I have....a little more in an outboard amp is OK....only IF it improves my sound QUALITY....I am certainly loud enough. I may try to borrow or buy used to try it out.


Roger

Your listening distance is not unusually far, so, while the volume is large, you are close to the speakers and the sound reaches you just fine with about an 8 dB spl drop from the 3ft position. This should not be an issue with those sensitive speakers whatsoever.
Do you have info on the impedance swing from the company? Or, from measurements such as Stereophile makes? Anecdotes is not a good source for reliable info.
Maybe you need a better sub?
I really don't see a real need for an external amp.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...but I'm looking for experience to tell me if my RF-7 pair will show better dynamics, staging, and fullness with dedicated amplification or not...maybe not...it may be as good as it gets now; however, some speaker threads I read suggest that dedicated amps for the main two channels are a "must have".

Remember, dynamics is the reproduction of the low levels and high levels. With those sensitive speakers and amp, I don't see an issue. Unless it is a speaker issue.
Your other two concerns are recording issues, room acoustics and speaker issues.
Some speaker threads are not fact based, so you need to be very careful and as you are doing, asking further questions, you may have better answers.

Asking and checking is part of the fun.
And did I properly audition this set-up? Of course...but when you get home and time passes, then the itch starts....I'm glad I don't do drugs.

Yes, you need to always ask; never stop asking questions as then there is no further learning
Itch? Well, that is a very possible source of your concerns

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I noticed that when powered internally by the Yamaha, the front speakers were set at +1.0 db. But when I ran YPAO with the fronts hooked up to the NAD, they are now set to +8.0 db. Lower input voltage on the NAD perhaps?
.

Yes, different amp gains will require different input voltages. You have a mix of amp gains, hence what you discovered.

 

[Nuglets]

Flame away you guys with Panasonic HTIB's..and AVR's...been there, aint going back.

Chris

Who's flaming except for you...We have been giving our opinions and you come in with a comment like that. Who here has a Panasonic HTIB and is telling him that it will perform just as well as a nice big amp? I read the whole post and see nothing of the sort...I think people might take you seriously if you didn't make comments like that one that prove you didn't even read the post and are now forming an opinion about what has been said here.

Look at my setup, I'd say it's a step up from a Panisonic HTIB. Now realize that I did the same thing as you except, I started with a low end Denon, bought a 300W/channel amp and didn't hear any difference whatsoever in sound quality. I then got an RX-V1400 and did the same thing and again didn't hear a difference. I do however experience a difference when I begin to push the amps closer to their limit, less compression, distortion, clipping, etc...And that for me is the reason I use separates along.

Another thing...I just reread your post and considering that you listen to multi-channel music when making these comparisons, that could easily explain the huge difference that you are hearing. The more channels that are playing simultaneously, less power is available for each channel and if you are cranking the volume up then it's a guarantee that you are pushing the receiver to it's limits and then yes the amp will help substantially. I have never claimed that all amps sound exactly the same but I will say that well designed solid state amps are meant to be transparent and based on my experience with 2-channel listening, as I don't get into the multichannel music thing, this holds true.

 

[mtrycrafts]

....I have also read all the "all amps sound the same" stuff and can say on my sysytem it makes a HUGE difference, even my wife says "holy sh*t" repeatedly...lol.
Chris

Where did you read this nonsense??? ALL amps includes all the ones that are poorly designed, high output impedance, euphonic fr, 3% THD, etc.

Perhaps, your eyes are playing tricks on you? You know, human senses are fallible and can be fooled. One only has to see a magician. Fools me most every time.
I don't suppose your wife is immune from being biased? to please hubby?

 

[wire]

Let me take a crack at this (never ending ) amplifier controversey.

'Headroom' does not equal 'sound quality' except when you need it; ie loud transients can require up to 10x the power to reproduce accurately. In other words, your 100 wpc receiver may be using only a few watts the majority of time but as soon as it needs the huge increase in power it can't keep up and an external amp may be better up to the task.

Don't get lost in the watts == better sound quality nonsense. If you have a 250 wpc amp, except for those brief transients when playing at a loud level, it will never use more than a few watts. So at 'normal' listening levels it will sound no different than the receiver alone - except for those amps that are 'voiced'; ie colored to impart their own particular sound quality.

I love the notion that X speakers 'need a lot of power to sound their best'. That statement makes NO logical sense whatsoever. That is equivalent to saying these speakers absolutely suck at low listening levels. Higher power won't help you through low impedance. Low impedance requires more CURRENT but of course voltage, current, and power are related so an external amp that can supply the current can supply more power as well.

As has said been said already, at normal listening levels an external amp will not likely buy you anything. At loud levels it will be more suited to dealing with transients and is usually more suited to driving low impedance loads.

If you have a large room and/or like to listen at very loud levels an external amp could be a worthwhile purchase; otherwise it is a waste of money. My little Onkyo 502 can get so loud you can't stand it in 16x18x9 room. When pushed really hard you can tell that it is struggling but I can't stand that level for long anyway.

Ok try your mighty Onkyo with a pair of AL-III's and see how far you get or even better some Amazings , Hell try my SDA 2b's , that thing will bottom out in 2 seconds and sound like crap to boot at normal listining levels . Sure it might sound good with a pair of Hersey's ( which i do like ) .

 

[wire]

I just inserted a new Emotiva MPS1 amp into my system using my Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver as a pre/pro for now. I have a "studio/dedicated HT" which is totally dead accoustically and play my music mostly around 90db and up to 100db if really rockin.The difference in sound is simply stunning, in multi channel audio with a really good DVD audio disc or DTS disc its a joy to behold. There is so much authority and power with that sense of sheer dynamic range its really something to hear, the bass is much cleaner , tighter and deeper. The surround channels are for one, WAY more up to par with the front channels, my multi channel stuff doesn't even sound like the same disc and thats the honest truth.
My Klipsch speaks are rated at 250 RMS but very sensitive at 100db but truly love the extra headroom they are now getting.

Watched the film "Open Range" the other night and the gunfight at the end is like nothing I have ever heard before, simply incredible power and depth in the gunshots it was like getting blasted by the weapon myself, this is another area where a big amp has the reserves for these huge peaks in sound. I was actually laughing and giggling , it was so much fun to hear.

I have also read all the "all amps sound the same" stuff and can say on my sysytem it makes a HUGE difference, even my wife says "holy sh*t" repeatedly...lol.
Flame away you guys with Panasonic HTIB's..and AVR's...been there, aint going back.

The pic is just to give you an idea of part of what my amp is driving.

Chris

Welcome to the world of Power Amps . Only a few can take the chance and save some $ to join us .
Your gonna have many years of enjoyment .

 

[Seth=L]

I just inserted a new Emotiva MPS1 amp into my system using my Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver as a pre/pro for now. I have a "studio/dedicated HT" which is totally dead accoustically and play my music mostly around 90db and up to 100db if really rockin.The difference in sound is simply stunning, in multi channel audio with a really good DVD audio disc or DTS disc its a joy to behold. There is so much authority and power with that sense of sheer dynamic range its really something to hear, the bass is much cleaner , tighter and deeper. The surround channels are for one, WAY more up to par with the front channels, my multi channel stuff doesn't even sound like the same disc and thats the honest truth.
My Klipsch speaks are rated at 250 RMS but very sensitive at 100db but truly love the extra headroom they are now getting.

Watched the film "Open Range" the other night and the gunfight at the end is like nothing I have ever heard before, simply incredible power and depth in the gunshots it was like getting blasted by the weapon myself, this is another area where a big amp has the reserves for these huge peaks in sound. I was actually laughing and giggling , it was so much fun to hear.

I have also read all the "all amps sound the same" stuff and can say on my sysytem it makes a HUGE difference, even my wife says "holy sh*t" repeatedly...lol.
Flame away you guys with Panasonic HTIB's..and AVR's...been there, aint going back.

Chris

If what you say is true, then it would mean your Klipsch speakers swing really low in impedance, and they might (I recall a thread I was reading a while back concerning Klipsch Reference series speakers and amplifier shut-down issues.

But here is another fun fact. You Klipsch are 100db @ 1 watt, that is very efficient. So you would need only 1 watt to produce the 100db "really rockin" volumes. And the fact remains that well designed and assembled amplifiers are sonically transparent.

I have one small question, how did you get the measurements for your decibel levels?

 

[wire]

ufobuster-



my recommendation would be to find a dealer who will allow you to demo components in your home, take them home & try them out before you buy. s.

Great advise .
I own Klipsch , for movies only . I do like Klipsch musically hooked up to my Tube amp , it really makes a difference to the speaker . You almost need a SS like Sunfire ( way to much power though ) , with a warm sound to even those speakers out . I ve heard all the older models on NAD and other seperates (freaking louder than some concerts , they just screem . Klipsch is a very well designed loudspeaker , for Loudspeakers they are that Loud .
You have to be careful what you power Klipsch with .

 

[wire]

But here is another fun fact. You Klipsch are 100db @ 1 watt, that is very efficient. So you would need only 1 watt to produce the 100db "really rockin" volumes. And the fact remains that well designed and assembled amplifiers are sonically transparent.

So true , all you need for a pair of towered Klipsch is a small and old 30 x 2 NAD int. amp to make them sing . They freaking loud .

 

[Jey Jockey]

Klipsch are loud indeed

hey guys and gals, yes the Klipsch are very loud and super efficient especially the higher end stuff. As far as impedance dips..I have no idea, all I know is what I hear although I did read that as well.

One thing to note is that Klipsch recommend that you use an amp at least as powerfull as its given RMS rating in my case it is 250 Rms for the 83's, that is off their website under things to know.

I measured the db levels with my RS SPL meter at my seating position.

Anyway, I sure like the new amp and thats all that matters

Chris

 

[Seth=L]

hey guys and gals, yes the Klipsch are very loud and super efficient especially the higher end stuff. As far as impedance dips..I have no idea, all I know is what I hear although I did read that as well.

One thing to note is that Klipsch recommend that you use an amp at least as powerfull as its given RMS rating in my case it is 250 Rms for the 83's, that is off their website under things to know.

I measured the db levels with my RS SPL meter at my seating position.

Anyway, I sure like the new amp and thats all that matters

Chris

I have got to say there are only two possible reasons for the change in audio.

A.) The Klipsch swing low, and the Yamaha can't properly handle the low resistance even at using just a few watts.

B.) The whole difference it based on bias. "your mind makes it real" You body reacts to how your brain percieves. things.

 

[MDS]

Ok try your mighty Onkyo with a pair of AL-III's and see how far you get or even better some Amazings , Hell try my SDA 2b's , that thing will bottom out in 2 seconds and sound like crap to boot at normal listining levels . Sure it might sound good with a pair of Hersey's ( which i do like ) .

I guess what you are saying is you have a bunch of incredibly inefficient, low impedance speakers and your room is the size of a concert hall. If you actually READ and understood what I wrote you'd see your situation would call for an external amp.

 

[wire]

I guess what you are saying is you have a bunch of incredibly inefficient, low impedance speakers and your room is the size of a concert hall. If you actually READ and understood what I wrote you'd see your situation would call for an external amp.

All im saying is speakers need the power and most made for sale in your Best byes and future shops are made for recievers . Power makes a differnce to some speakers ( not made for mass production ) . The AL-III"s ive heard Bi amped and with use with 1 external amp ( one amp still sounds alot better than anything you buy in Best Bye ) , these speakers with a ton of power really open up and sing ( the soundstage is unreal and clear ) . Same with even my 2b's , the Bryston really gets them going even at low levels ( soundstage ) .

 

[highfihoney]

I have got to say there are only two possible reasons for the change in audio.

A.) The Klipsch swing low, and the Yamaha can't properly handle the low resistance even at using just a few watts.

B.) The whole difference it based on bias. "your mind makes it real" You body reacts to how your brain percieves. things.

OR.............

C.) The klipsch speakers that he has are a very revealing speaker & they sound different when paired with different electronics.

Im not picking on you seth god knows i love ya

For the record, The reason i quote you so much is that i see you having fun in this hobby & that is the most important thing of all,i also suspect that you'll get around to trying out alot of different gear just for the fun of it.

My opinion from from decades of owning various klipsch speakers is this.

The way Klipsch speakers interact with different electronics is easy for alot of people to hear(including myself),from my experience klipsch does not pair well with alot of electronics which leads many to believe they sound like crap,if there was ever a brand of speaker made that required carefull component matching Klipsch is it.

 

[wire]

OR.............

C.) The klipsch speakers that he has are a very revealing speaker & they sound different when paired with different electronics.

Im not picking on you seth god knows i love ya

For the record, The reason i quote you so much is that i see you having fun in this hobby & that is the most important thing of all,i also suspect that you'll get around to trying out alot of different gear just for the fun of it.

My opinion from from decades of owning various klipsch speakers is this.

The way Klipsch speakers interact with different electronics is easy for alot of people to hear(including myself),from my experience klipsch does not pair well with alot of electronics which leads many to believe they sound like crap,if there was ever a brand of speaker made that required carefull component matching Klipsch is it.

Hi Fi
Have you ever tryed a tube amp matched to some Lascalla's or Hersey's .
Ive heard Hersey's matched with small NAD's (intra) , they sound quite good .