JL Audio home subs?

[WorldLeader]

I have serious doubts to the truth of a DIY product going down to 10hrz. I refuse to belive that some guy in his gargage can easily build something that manufacturers with millions of dollars in research and production capabilities can't.

EDIT: after reading this post over, I want to make it clear that I am speaking not to all DIY owners and hobbiests, but to the fact that one person is claiming to have made one product that performs astronomically better than most anything else (if not everything else) out there. I fully understand and recognize that speaker makers like Polk Audio exist only because Matthew Polk started building his own speakers in his garage.

READ THIS

AND THIS

AND THIS PDF, page 38-41

Don't bash till you do some research

 

[zumbo]

READ THIS

AND THIS

AND THIS PDF, page 38-41

Don't bash till you do some research

I haven't read any of your links.

Let me tell you why.

You posted this:
Originally Posted by JLowe, he has a 2 Avalanche 18" IB
The preliminary results are insane. I moved from dual SVS 16-46 PC+'s, wow, who knew they were falling on their faces so much! If the SVS pair could be called impressive, then the IB is simply scary. Where I was scared to pump the SVS up for fear of it bottoming, I'm now scared turning the IB up for fear of bringing my home down on top of me!

Someone was "scared to pump-up the volume for fear of bottoming." I have a NHT SW-12, which hardly compares to a SVS 16-46, and I have no fear of it bottoming. Ever. So, that right there tells me everthing else is BS. Complete and utter BS.

 

[jaxvon]

I haven't read any of your links.

Let me tell you why.

You posted this:
Originally Posted by JLowe, he has a 2 Avalanche 18" IB
The preliminary results are insane. I moved from dual SVS 16-46 PC+'s, wow, who knew they were falling on their faces so much! If the SVS pair could be called impressive, then the IB is simply scary. Where I was scared to pump the SVS up for fear of it bottoming, I'm now scared turning the IB up for fear of bringing my home down on top of me!

Someone was "scared to pump-up the volume for fear of bottoming." I have a NHT SW-12, which hardly compares to a SVS 16-46, and I have no fear of it bottoming. Ever. So, that right there tells me everthing else is BS. Complete and utter BS.

Perhaps you should get off your high horse. Aside from absolutely gigantic enclosures, the only way to achieve the kind of subsonic response that WorldLeader is talking about is with an IB setup. And perhaps the user that posted before that had fear of bottoming his subs has a huge room and desires levels of bass that you do not.

 

[InTheIndustry]

READ THIS

AND THIS

AND THIS PDF, page 38-41

Don't bash till you do some research

Thanks for the links (although I did research what IB subs are before I posted) I read the forum posts and the second link. The third link would not grant me access to the page.

The second link, to me, tells the story in both pictures and words. It also validates my guy in his garage statement  . Those are completely custom built bass systems. Going up into an attic, building enclosures in basement joists, cutting out (did I count 9?) different fittings for drivers. And then the wiring and amps to put it all together. Cheaper... well, maybe, if you don't make any mistakes or hurt yourself and/or your home. Better? Maybe - (and that's a big MAYBE), if you build it exactly right. I'm sure those systems play super loud and move tons of air, but there's ultimately more to it than that. Practical, even possible, in most homes? No way in hell. For all the trouble people are going through to reinvent the wheel and save a few $ (and not have any warranty) I don't see the trade off for most homes. To me, $3200 looks like a relief and a bargain in comparison to what some of these folks are doing.

On the other hand, it looks like a super fun project. But it's still not something to recommend to just anybody. To build something like what these people are showing would take considerable talent, time, and space.

Question is: Does a recommendation for this project belong in this thread?

 

[zumbo]

Perhaps you should get off your high horse. Aside from absolutely gigantic enclosures, the only way to achieve the kind of subsonic response that WorldLeader is talking about is with an IB setup. And perhaps the user that posted before that had fear of bottoming his subs has a huge room and desires levels of bass that you do not.

Not on a high horse. And, I have to say, this is a shock coming from you. My room is 30' x 20' with open beam ceilings. Besides, the room has nothing to do with a sub bottoming. I have no fear of my sub bottoming. It has never done it, and in no way, does it compare to the SVS mentioned.

 

[jaxvon]

Not on a high horse. And, I have to say, this is a shock coming from you. My room is 30' x 20' with open beam ceilings. Besides, the room has nothing to do with a sub bottoming. I have no fear of my sub bottoming. It has never done it, and in no way, does it compare to the SVS mentioned.

I forgot that you had a huge room. And as for bottoming out, what is the FR of your subwoofer? It's much easier to bottom out subwoofers when you try to push them hard in the subsonic range. Anyway, all I was getting at is that you should not write-off IB setups just because you think one guy singing their praises is a tool. I eventually hope to install an IB setup for subsonic bass in addition to in-room subwoofers, but that is down the road. I don't have the money or living space to do it right now.

And if you want to reply, please do it via PM so we don't take this thread further off track. Thanks.

 

[darien87]

The glossy piano black finish on the f113 MSRP is $3300 and the standard black is $3200.

Every market is different (yours in particular because cost of living might not allow dealers to give very big price breaks).

That's the price the dealer here in the Bay Area gave me. I almost choked!!! Maybe if I was hella rich, I wouldn't care. But I'm not Bill Gates. There is NO WAY IN HELL I would pay 3-Grand for a sub.

 

[Sheep]

OK we get it, you don't want to buy the sub, move on already.

SheepStar

 

[Ketsueki]

So you purchased two 4ohm SVC woofers?

I guess you plan on running them in series for an 8ohm load?

How do you plan to power them?

Gonna take alot of power for two subs run in series.

You may be better off selling one, and just running one @ 4ohm.

Here's why. If you run two of them in series @8ohm off of an amp EX.(DAYTON HPSA1000 1000W SUBWOOFER AMPLIFIER), you will get 512W. Now divide that by two, and each sub will get 256W.

But, if you run one @4ohm, that amp will give you 1024W. This is a better option, no matter what amp you choose, as long as the amp is 4ohm stable.

Now, that amp is $398.80. Your subs were $150.00. A cheap box will be around $100.00. Total of $648.80, and you still need wire to hook-it up to the amp. Plus, you have to hope the box is tuned for the sub. No way to compete with a company that does this.

A much better option, for the same amount of money, ready to plug-and-play.
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3.html

I would send the subs back Jack.

im only using one sub ($75shipped but i realize if you wanted just one you would still have to buy them both) and a A350 amp that puts out 380 watts rms @4ohms ($170shipped) and i built a 3/4 inch MDF sealed box for it and painted it with some cheap paint (i work at a lumber yard so i get a discount on prices) the box only costed me about 60 bucks for materials and then of course you need speaker wire and RCA's and all that fun stuff so id have to say realisticly it costed ME about 350 bucks.

however with that said i dont doubt that a HSU sub will sound much better then my setup, and in reality the only reason why im using a car sub in my home setup is because i was interested in buying an infinity sub for my car and ran across a buy one get one free deal. because my storage space in my car is rather valuable to me, i only use 1 sub in my car and is also the reason why i picked up a 10" sub over a 12" so i was left with an extra sub and decided to use it rather then sell it. ive tried it before and considering im still way young and have very little experience under my belt, i decided to try it hoping i could learn some thing

so in reality if i was in his boat, id probably buy a IB sub even if the price was higher then a DIY setup especially considering considering a DIY one is possibly a gamble that you could end up on the wrong side of

 

[WmAx]

i
however with that said i dont doubt that a HSU sub will sound much better then my setup, and in reality the only reason why im using a car sub in my home setup is because i was interested in buying an infinity sub for my car and ran across a buy one get one free deal.

If you are talking about the Infinity Kappa Perfect *.1 subs, realize, that almost no drivers have the linearity of these drivers. To exceed the quality of these drivers is no small feat, though some examples of such do exist(JL Audio's HT subs, JM Labs Utopia series, etc.). As an example, the Kappa Perfect 12.1 tested in thorough SPL vs. distortion tests, equaled, and in some cases, [1]exceeded the Velodyne DD-12, a multi thousand dollar high end home subwoofer that is highly regarded. Of course, if you have drivers in a non ideal or poorly designed enclosure for the application, or poor room placement, acoustically poor room, etc., then it does not matter what quality the raw drivers may be, the result will not sound great.

-Chris

Footnotes
[1] http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28126&page=2

 

[darien87]

OK we get it, you don't want to buy the sub, move on already.

SheepStar

What's your deal Sheep? If you have nothing to add to this discussion, I suggest you move on. I'm sorry it bothers you, but I started this thread before I knew how much JL subs were. I'm sorry that it bothers you that I was shocked by their high price tag.

I'm sure it's a great sub, and that I would love it if I could afford it. But $3,200 just doesn't fit into my bang-for-the-buck calculations. Maybe I'll start saving up or hope to become rich and famous. Oh yeah, California Lotto's up to $48 million. Maybe I'll go buy some lottery tickets.

 

[Tom Andry]

I agree with Sheep, you've made your point. You think they are overpriced... for YOU. Others don't agree and would like to discuss the subs here (in the thread you created but don't own). If you would like to discuss subs that are more in your price range, it would be a good idea to start a new thread. Go ahead and list your budget up front so that you don't experience any more "sticker shock" or the need to blow your bottom dollar on lottery tickets.

On a separate note, IB discussions don't really fit here either. Feel free to take that to a different thread as well. Personally, I'm very curious about the JL subs. The technology looks sound and while they are expensive, they are by no means the most expensive on the block. And if someone is going to charge an arm and a leg, they should at the very least provide performance. And it looks like JL is doing that.

Of course their top dog is more about status ("I bought the top of the line") than bang-for-the-buck as InTheIndustry indicated. But that is nothing new. Many companies put out a crazy expensive top of the line product that really doesn't deliver the increase of performance that you'd expect for the increased cost.

 

[darien87]

I agree with Sheep, you've made your point. You think they are overpriced... for YOU. Others don't agree and would like to discuss the subs here (in the thread you created but don't own). If you would like to discuss subs that are more in your price range, it would be a good idea to start a new thread. Go ahead and list your budget up front so that you don't experience any more "sticker shock" or the need to blow your bottom dollar on lottery tickets.

On a separate note, IB discussions don't really fit here either. Feel free to take that to a different thread as well. Personally, I'm very curious about the JL subs. The technology looks sound and while they are expensive, they are by no means the most expensive on the block. And if someone is going to charge an arm and a leg, they should at the very least provide performance. And it looks like JL is doing that.

Of course their top dog is more about status ("I bought the top of the line") than bang-for-the-buck as InTheIndustry indicated. But that is nothing new. Many companies put out a crazy expensive top of the line product that really doesn't deliver the increase of performance that you'd expect for the increased cost.

Geez. Heaven forbid I state my opinion. But I am perfectly willing to discuss the merits of JL subs. I'm sure they're a great product, (as I can attest to by my experience with their car audio products). Perhaps someone like InTheIndustry can shed a bit more light on the subject. Like, is it the signal processing and automatic room optimization that drives the high price tag? How well do these features work?

Just because I think they are overpriced doesn't mean that I'm not interested in getting more information about them. I'm still waiting for someone who has experience with them to say how they sound.

 

[mike c]

I think it's the overall size of the box that's the major appeal to people. but the fact that the box is small but still performs well means that:

there's a whole lot of amplifier power ... check. 2500 watts I think

the driver is small but does the job of bigger drivers ... check. 13" driver with incredible excursion

I believe the room optimization is just a bonus.

 

[JimP]

I think it's the overall size of the box that's the major appeal to people. but the fact that the box is small but still performs well means that:

there's a whole lot of amplifier power ... check. 2500 watts I think

the driver is small but does the job of bigger drivers ... check. 13" driver with incredible excursion

I believe the room optimization is just a bonus.

.....and its (as far as I know) one of the only new high quality subs that have come out in the last few months. People assume that its necessarily better than some subs that have been out for a while that you don't hear much about anymore.

 

[mike c]

.....and its (as far as I know) one of the only new high quality subs that have come out in the last few months. People assume that its necessarily better than some subs that have been out for a while that you don't hear much about anymore.

imagine buying something new and saying ... my old one was better.
that would be hella boring.

 

[Seth=L]

imagine buying something new and saying ... my old one was better.
that would be hella boring.

That happens to me, but only because the older and better thing broke.