Dutch & Dutch 15c - standmount with 3 15" drivers

[shadyJ]

I thought most low frequencies were non-directional, and that explained our inability to state precisely where they originate from, as compared to higher frequencies.

What the 15C does that is so remarkable is that it does not leak low-frequency energy out from the sides or rear. Almost all loudspeakers become omnidirectional at lower frequencies. The 15C is pulling a very special physics trick where it uses phase cancellation to eliminate low frequencies from projecting anywhere but the front of the speaker.

 

[Kingnoob]

I thought most low frequencies were non-directional, and that explained our inability to state precisely where they originate from, as compared to higher frequencies.

15C looks amazing , wonder if floors need reinforced to hold 600+ pounds….
Yes non-directional,, but I can see both my subs and localize them . Even turned down to -15 on my avr . If I had a way to hide them better maybe it wouldn’t be easy to localize them at low volumes . Higher up they blend in better .

 

[highfigh]

Stretching the physics here ..... 309lbs bookshelf speakers

MARKETING!

 

[highfigh]

I thought most low frequencies were non-directional, and that explained our inability to state precisely where they originate from, as compared to higher frequencies.

Depends on the listener and frequencies- below a point, location of frequencies is hard to detect but reflections can add cues. Below some point, we aren't hearing the sund as much as feeling it becauseof bone conduction. That's likely the reason for the idea that directionality doesn't matter. I discussed this with the audiologist the last time I went for a hearing test after I asked them to repeat a few frequencies.

 

[highfigh]

Well .... standmount I believe .... they are on a stand
very NOT BOOKSHELF

Dutch & Dutch only do fully active speakers with DSP, the other models have plate amps, this one comes obviously with external dsp processor and amps.

I live in a flat, and they could fit here, if I won the Eurojackpot I assume

The link showed them described as 'bookshelf'- Land Of The Giants, maybe?

 

[haraldo]

The link showed them described as 'bookshelf'- Land Of The Giants, maybe?

Bookshelves in the US, maybe, not
In Norway, NO WAY

 

[haraldo]

I would just call them 'standmount' speakers. We really need to retire the word 'bookshelf' in bookshelf speakers. No one puts speakers in bookshelfs anymore.

As for the D&D speakers, I did hear them today at Axpona. I can't speak for the sound quality as they were placed in a busy hotel lobby, but the low-frequency directivity control was truly impressive. Cool speaker.

Are we also looking at very smart directivity at low frequences so some standing wave issues may be reduced here? or am I completely misunderstanding here?

 

[TLS Guy]

Are we also looking at very smart directivity at low frequences so some standing wave issues may be reduced here? or am I completely misunderstanding here?

No, not possible at low frequencies.

A crossover at 1250 Hz, is just nuts and absolutely stupid.

 

[haraldo]

A crossover at 1250 Hz, is just nuts and absolutely stupid.

Hmmmm .... a lot of people seem to think otherwise

 

[TLS Guy]

Hmmmm .... a lot of people seem to think otherwise

In that case they are a daft as brushes.

 

[Verdinut]

For speaker crossover frequencies, ideally they shouldn't be fixed in the human speech range: 400-4000 Hz. But for practical purposes, this is not often feasible.
It's of most importance to fix crossover frequencies which are suitable for the chosen drivers. These drivers have to be a good match. Passive crossovers have to be well designed for a smooth frequency response, using quality capacitors, not the electrolytic type often used in commercially sold, even expensive ones.

Facts about speech intelligibility

Spoken and sung words should be intelligible. Unfortunatley, it can be technically challenging to retain intelligibility, when recording or amplifying the voice. In this article, we present some facts on speech intelligibility and, most importantly, how to retain it.

www.dpamicrophones.com

 

[haraldo]

For speaker crossover frequencies, ideally they shouldn't be fixed in the human speech range: 400-4000 Hz. But for practical purposes, this is not often feasible.
It's of most importance to fix crossover frequencies which are suitable for the chosen drivers. These drivers have to be a good match. Passive crossovers have to be well designed for a smooth frequency response, using quality capacitors, not the electrolytic type often used in commercially sold, even expensive ones.

Facts about speech intelligibility

Spoken and sung words should be intelligible. Unfortunatley, it can be technically challenging to retain intelligibility, when recording or amplifying the voice. In this article, we present some facts on speech intelligibility and, most importantly, how to retain it.

www.dpamicrophones.com

This is active, with all processing being DSP based.... There are compression drivers like TAD TD-4003 that could be crossed as low as 600Hz, going all the way above 20KHz with a sensitivity of 112 dB (1W/1m) ... but I believe price for such things would be around $6,000 each so ... of course it is possible, but I reckon pricey pricey

 

[haraldo]

Can we trust Darko, stating that it may be $130.000 per pair
I think then definitely there would be way better options out there

 

[adk highlander]

Can we trust Darko, stating that it may be $130.000 per pair
I think then definitely there would be way better options out there

I saw. That is where I figured they would fall. How many 6 figure loudspeakers can the world support? Apparently many.

 

[Verdinut]

I saw. That is where I figured they would fall. How many 6 figure loudspeakers can the world support? Apparently many.

And only the gullible millionnaires will buy them.

 

[TLS Guy]

This is active, with all processing being DSP based.... There are compression drivers like TAD TD-4003 that could be crossed as low as 600Hz, going all the way above 20KHz with a sensitivity of 112 dB (1W/1m) ... but I believe price for such things would be around $6,000 each so ... of course it is possible, but I reckon pricey pricey

The fundamental problem with that speaker, as with so many speakers, is how resources are apportioned. So you have three 15" drivers assigned below 1250 Hz and one mid tweeter for the rest of the acoustic spectrum. The latter having to handle close to 50% of the speakers power output. That speaker is not going to provide good reproduction of orchestral music, opera or pipe organs. It will likely produce a good thump in the rock/pop class, but in nothing else.

As I have said before that speaker designers on the whole do not consider, the power bands of music that speakers are required to reproduce. So the designers concentrate on good FR bass extension etc. However, as I keep pointing out, standard measurements tell you absolutely nothing about the power band response, and reviewers don't want to blow speakers under review to find out.

However, I have alway had the power bands of sources front and center, when I design a speaker, and that really pays off and sets them apart in that regard and the speakers produce truly realistic dynamics without distress across the spectrum.

 

[haraldo]

JTR also has 15" drivers with a compression driver

JTR Noesis 215RM — JTR Speakers

www.jtrspeakers.com

 

[haraldo]

There is this from B&C which is a two way compression driver that can be crossed at 300Hz, so to call they guys at Dutch & Ducth idiots ... I think may be somewhat rash

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-6060--bc-speakers-dcx464-8-spec-sheet.PDF

 

[TLS Guy]

There is this from B&C which is a two way compression driver that can be crossed at 300Hz, so to call they guys at Dutch & Ducth idiots ... I think may be somewhat rash

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-6060--bc-speakers-dcx464-8-spec-sheet.PDF

They are all in the line of the old Altec and electro voice theater speakers. I have never heard speakers with this type of design be good home speakers.

 

[shadyJ]

They are all in the line of the old Altec and electro voice theater speakers. I have never heard speakers with this type of design be good home speakers.

The team at Dutch & Dutch have been at the bleeding edge of loudspeaker design for awhile now. Their 8c speakers had the most accurate response for a long time after they were released, which even Genelec and Neumann took some time to catch up with. I would give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.