Electric Vehicles?

[j_garcia]

Subarus hold their value notoriously well and have a near cult-like following. Nissans, not so much.

Most EVs lose a pretty good chunk of value in general in the first few years. The demand for used EVs isn't there.

 

[Eppie]

Most EVs lose a pretty good chunk of value in general in the first few years. The demand for used EVs isn't there.

I think the issue there is reasonable battery replacement cost. Who wants to buy a used EV knowing that in a few years the battery could be toast and too expensive to make replacement worthwhile? The cars end up being scrap value only. Electrical motors have a very long life span. EVs could be on the road for many years if battery replacement was affordable.

That's an oversimplification or course. Battery technology is evolving so quickly that no manufacturer wants to stockpile 10 year old battery tech. Eventually we may see some battery tech where the batteries last 20 years or more which would be considered the life of the car.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I think the issue there is reasonable battery replacement cost. Who wants to buy a used EV knowing that in a few years the battery could be toast and too expensive to make replacement worthwhile? The cars end up being scrap value only. Electrical motors have a very long life span. EVs could be on the road for many years if battery replacement was affordable.

That's an oversimplification or course. Battery technology is evolving so quickly that no manufacturer wants to stockpile 10 year old battery tech. Eventually we may see some battery tech where the batteries last 20 years or more which would be considered the life of the car.

This ends up with car makers trying to pretend that their EV cars should be replaced like iPhones. If only there were any foreseeable and obvious issue with this notion, I wonder....

 

[Alex2507]

This ends up with car makers trying to pretend that their EV cars should be replaced like iPhones.

That's a nightmare scenario for me. I work for enough things.

I need a car to work for me, not the other way around.

I must be in the wrong tax bracket for this thread.

 

[Eppie]

I have seen designs for easily replaceable battery packs but they have been from small companies looking to innovate. We need a major auto-manufacturer to take the lead on this but it will likely take some government incentives. Not going to happen in the U.S. under the current administration.

 

[j_garcia]

There are Teslas on the road that are 15 years old. I see a few of the first gens almost every day around here. That's longer than the average person keeps a car, so it should not be a huge concern. At the same time, you can't expect to get a good return on your investment on an EV because that battery concern, real or not, still affects the value.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

That's a nightmare scenario for me. I work for enough things.

I need a car to work for me, not the other way around.

I must be in the wrong tax bracket for this thread.

The issue is that EV batteries in their current generation is 100% wear items and the replacement of this battery is anywhere between 15 to 40 THOUSAND dollars.
The ease of replacements could be extremely helpful during charging - I believe they are doing it somewhat successfully in China in a limited rollout. In the States, Tesla ran a very small experiment, but very few were interested. I guess it was a combination of lack of convenience, the remote location of this test, and the cost.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

There are Teslas on the road that are 15 years old. I see a few of the first gens almost every day around here. That's longer than the average person keeps a car, so it should not be a huge concern. At the same time, you can't expect to get a good return on your investment on an EV because that battery concern, real or not, still affects the value.

According to 100% accurate Reddit posts (/s) , the owners say that after 8-10 years of Telsa S driving they see range loss between 8% to 16%. Battery warranty only goes to 8 years.
https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/zg48l5 Also, Tesla's warranty-replaced battery isn't covered by it's own warranty.

 

[j_garcia]

According to 100% accurate Reddit posts (/s) , the owners say that after 8-10 years of Telsa S driving they see range loss between 8% to 16%. Battery warranty only goes to 8 years.
https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/zg48l5 Also, Tesla's warranty-replaced battery isn't covered by it's own warranty.

Yes, they're losing range, but I still see people driving them. That ~16% hit doesn't lower it enough that it becomes a problem. That is expected with current battery technology. Solid state batteries are showing 0% degradation on first charge, where you can lose up to 2-3% already. They also show very low idle charge loss, even with fast charging. How long it will take them to become mainstream is anyone's guess. Most companies seem to be saying 2027. BYD is the only one who is saying they're production ready.

BYD hits a milestone with solid-state EV batteries due out as soon as 2027

The world’s leading EV maker is preparing to introduce new battery chemistries to stay a step ahead of the competition....

electrek.co

BYD reveals the 'world's longest-range EV' that can drive 1,036 km on a single charge

BYD is launching fully electric vehicles with over 1,000 km (620 miles) CLTC range. After previewing the new Denza Z9...

electrek.co

 

[Matt34]

Saw this article the other day, swapped the battery at 360k miles.

https://insideevs.com/features/754979/hyundai-ioniq-5-400000-miles/

 

[Mikado463]

Saw this article the other day, swapped the battery at 360k miles.

https://insideevs.com/features/754979/hyundai-ioniq-5-400000-miles/

a S Korean 'test mule' ?

 

[j_garcia]

Pricing for the launch edition R2 is $58K. Not sure I am prepared to pay that, despite 650+hp / 600+tq. The Premium will be released later in the year for $53K and drops only a few features and lowers power to 450hp/530tq, which is plenty. Both with a ~330mi range. I will save more than enough money per month by moving to the house to cover that, but that doesn't mean I need to just go spending it. She and I will discuss. I also need to see how it does, since this is the first year for this car.

I will almost certainly go with another lease of an Ioniq 5, possibly an XRT, and consider an R2 later.

*edit - LOL, I just logged in to make the next to the last payment on the Ioniq and they are offering to waive the first 3 payments and no fees to stick with them (for specific models, XRT not included).

 

[jinjuku]

Wife drove the Ariya, Outback, Sportage. Back to back. So she experienced what I was alluding to.

Going to call on a 2023, 9K miles, AWD, 279 mile range, Ariya for $18K.

 

[j_garcia]

Went for a test drive and they offered an amazingly good deal, so I swapped the '24 for a '26 XRT

There were only 4 in the entire Bay Area, this one was 35 mi away. Compared to the 25s, the 26s were $10k off. They gave $6500 off that, paid my last payment on the other car, paid 3 payments on this car (an HMFUSA deal) and no fees on the lease turn in. So overall, they seemed like they REALLY wanted to move this car. While I was there signing papers, everyone else who came in were looking at hybrids. (green one in the background is the one I turned in)

Cancelled my R2 reservation as the timeline would not have worked out. Premium won't be available until later in the year.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Went for a test drive and they offered an amazingly good deal, so I swapped the '24 for a '26 XRT

There were only 4 in the entire Bay Area, this one was 35 mi away. Compared to the 25s, the 26s were $10k off. They gave $6500 off that, paid my last payment on the other car, paid 3 payments on this car (an HMFUSA deal) and no fees on the lease turn in. So overall, they seemed like they REALLY wanted to move this car. While I was there signing papers, everyone else who came in were looking at hybrids.

Cancelled my R2 reservation as the timeline would not have worked out. Premium won't be available until later in the year.

Very nice and speedy car. Enjoy. Curious what the lease deal is you got on '26 XRT?

 

[j_garcia]

Very nice and speedy car. Enjoy. Curious what the lease deal is you got on '26 XRT?

They were giving $6500 off for a 3 year lease and only $1k for a 2yr. so I went for 3, since it is obviously a better deal. 3 months waived payments (which basically they just took $1500 off the price) was a deal from Hyundai Motor Finance, which the dealer honored. I JUST made my 2nd to last payment; they said they would have paid 2 months, so I only got one month free payment there, but still good.

The only thing I had to give up was my last month of free EA fast charging, since they said it is locked to the VIN. They also included 3 years of Bluelink vs. 1 for the previous car.

 

[Mikado463]

j, I don't know much about EV's or leasing but it sounds like you did A-OK !

 

[j_garcia]

Let that sink in lol. I talked to the guy, got his card. They're custom built here in the bay area. $200k, 150 mi range. He said come by the shop and see their next offering that's coming next month.

Sent from my SM-S948U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Verdinut]

Let that sink in lol. I talked to the guy, got his card. They're custom built here in the bay area. $200k, 150 mi range. He said come by the shop and see their next offering that's coming next month.

Sent from my SM-S948U1 using Tapatalk

It would have a range better than 150 mi if the body had an aerodynamic shape. But it's a Bronco.

 

[Mikado463]

wonder if the EV interest is experiencing an uptick given the current oil/gas situation ?