Record cleaning

[m. zillch]

Unfortunately only the original Dust Bug works and does the job.

Seems odd. If you found the original effective why did you bother to purchase the later ones to then, apparently, discover they didn't do the job?

 

[Alex2507]

why did you bother to purchase the later ones

Where does it say he bought any 'later ones'?

He could have read reports of 'later ones' sucking. Credible reports.

Like this. Buy a 'later one' and tell us about how it sucks. We'll believe you.

 

[dlaloum]

I was looking at 3db's Vevor unit....or is yours also described that way on Amazon!?

Yes it is that type of unit... with my own gantry concoction holding the LP's and soft rubberised covers for the labels...

 

[m. zillch]

Where does it say he bought any 'later ones'?

He could have read reports of 'later ones' sucking. Credible reports.

Had your theoretical scenario been the case I'd think his wording would/should have been more like "I have read/heard—from what I deem to be credible reports—claims that the later ones suck." In an audio forum discussing gear, if a poster says "this unit(s) sucks" I assume it's their opinion on the matter after having evaluated it, or they'd say something like "according to reviewer/source XYZ, they suck".

[Also it would strike me odd that a person would ever post claims of others, stated as a matter of fact—"they suck"—from sources they felt were not credible, so doesn't that part of your hypothetical scenario (where he's simply reporting what he's heard/read) pretty much go without saying?]

 

[Alex2507]

the wording would should have been

He does need help wording things. I'm sure he thanks you.

so doesn't that part of your hypothetical scenario pretty much go without saying?

I need help understanding your wording.
Probably because my understanding ability sucks.

 

[m. zillch]

I used to keep a can of compressed air by my TT for quick touch ups but I realized it was an expensive habit, so I bought one of these and recommend them, but be careful to lock your tonearm in placed or it can go flying! These things aren't like little air puffer balls you squeeze; they shoot a blast strong enough to even lift a record off the platter if one perversely wanted to!

 

[TLS Guy]

I used to keep a can of compressed air by my TT for quick touch ups but I realized it was an expensive habit, so I bought one of these and recommend them, but be careful to lock your tonearm in placed or it can go flying! These things aren't like little air puffer balls you squeeze; they shoot a blast strong enough to even lift a record off the platter if one perversely wanted to!

Where does it say he bought any 'later ones'?

He could have read reports of 'later ones' sucking. Credible reports.

Like this. Buy a 'later one' and tell us about how it sucks. We'll believe you.

You are correct, they have been evaluated and are totally useless, and may be even harmful. The Cecil Watts Dust Bug is seemingly simple, but the research and design of it very complex. It took Cecil Watts many hours of research to get the strength and shape of the bristles optimal and also the brush.

I was a teenager when he published his research, and I'm nearly eighty now. But I was fascinated by his research and dedication. It is entirely due to him that my record collection is in such good condition, along with careful handling, especially keeping greasy, sweaty fingers of the playing surface.

I do have the odd spare, and let one of our members Squishman have one, as he was amazed at how good my discs sounded. He has been very impressed with his Dust Bug and uses it with every play.

 

[TLS Guy]

One other issue of interest about the Dust Bug.

The turntable below is a very low serial number Thorens TD 150. It is the middle one.

That turntable has a very low serial number. The Thorens TD 150 was introduced in 1965, I bought that TD 150 in March 1965. In those days there were no plinths and you could buy just the turntable and no PU arm or cartridge. The TD 150 was the first belt drive turntable which has been widely copied. The motor was a Swiss Papst synchronous motor with no speed control. The speed is set by the AC power cycle.

In the instruction book, which I still have, it states that the speed is set deliberately slightly fast, but use of the Cecil Watts Dust Bug was encouraged and then the speed would be exact. And so it is, and it has always been used with a Dust Bug. At that time the Dust Bug achieved almost universal adoption by record enthusiasts. The take up was fast an universal.

The only change I have made to that turntable besides changing PU arms, is to change the Pabst synchronous motor from a 50 Hz to a 60 Hz motor when I moved to North America. It has given great service.

 

[Alex2507]

I do have the odd spare, and let one of our members Squishman have one, as he was amazed at how good my discs sounded. He has been very impressed with his Dust Bug and uses it with every play.

I'm in the same boat. Mine gets used with every play. My other brushes or cleaning schemes all got given away or forgotten. It's crazy how expensive those things got to be.

You may or may not recall but you were good enough to send me a spare motor for my AR Model Xb turntable some years back. It's still in use. I've had a lot of fun with that TT over the years.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm in the same boat. Mine gets used with every play. My other brushes or cleaning schemes all got given away or forgotten. It's crazy how expensive those things got to be.

You may or may not recall but you were good enough to send me a spare motor for my AR Model Xb turntable some years back. It's still in use. I've had a lot of fun with that TT over the years.

Now you jog this senile old man's memory, yes, I do remember that.

 

[m. zillch]

I wonder is this one just faded with age/sunlight or were there non-red ones? [Mine was red.]

I don't have much of a static problem but I know some people do.

 

[TLS Guy]

I wonder is this one just faded with age/sunlight or were there non-red ones? [Mine was red.]

I don't have much of a static problem but I know some people do.

No, there were some that color and I have a few of those. Most are red and I think they look better.

 

[m. zillch]

This guy shows a clever test of if his Shure cartridge's built it brush helps dissipate static:

 

[m. zillch]

I used a dust bug in the 60/70s . . . Also I never carefully analyzed the situation but theoretically having any object scraping along the top surface during play could potentially cause a noise which travels to the pickup stylus.

By my read that is what Shure is admitting here about their brush for the M97xe, in the manual, section 4:
"When such stabilization is not required,
the stabilizer can be locked into its up position, which can
improve sound quality under ideal playing conditions."

sourece:

https://pubs.shure.com/view/guide/M97xE/en-US.pdf

Others claim the fibers pick up "pre-echo" from upcoming grooves but I wonder if they are just unaware that cutting lathes sometimes cause adjacent groove echo while cutting the track itself and they were hearing that. I even still hear it on some audiophile pressings with widely spaced grooves at 45RPM on some of Fremmies vids. {example upon request]

 

[TLS Guy]

This guy shows a clever test of if his Shure cartridge's built it brush helps dissipate static:

There is more to that story.
The dynamic stabilizer was designed in conjunction with SME founder and owner the late Alistair Robertson Aitkman.

Dynamic stabilization is important, but needs to be designed in conjunction with the PU arm. To work optimally the stabilizer has to work with the SME silicone bath.

The SME series III arm was designed in conjunction with Shure and both work optimally when combined with the Shure V15 xmr.

Both my Thorens TD 150 and my Thorens TD 125 Mk II have SME series III arms fitted with the silicone damper using the correct paddle in the damper for the Shure V15 xmr

That is the only example I can think off where cartridge and arm precisely complement each other and work as a unit.
In addition on all my turntables the cartridge wiring and preamps are optimized to the cartridge. On the Quad 44 this can be done by dip switches, on the others by soldering the correct caps at the terminals on the SME arms.

That really produces the best disc reproduction I know of.

 

[m. zillch]

Another theoretical issue with "dust bugs" (Note: I'm using the term generically here and not meaning to be specific to any one brand) is that they introduce a new potential pathway for vibration/feedback from the plinth's top plate to reach the record surface. I suppose the Watts' use of a rubber suction cup here would help hinder that transference but I find with turntables things that seem teeny tiny and inconsequential in theory sometimes are actually either audible or at least measurable (or both).

 

[TLS Guy]

Another theoretical issue with "dust bugs" (Note: I'm using the term generically here and not meaning to be specific to any one brand) is that they introduce a new potential pathway for vibration/feedback from the plinth's top plate to reach the record surface. I suppose the Watts' use of a rubber suction cup here would help hinder that transference but I find with turntables things that seem teeny tiny and inconsequential in theory sometimes are actually either audible or at least measurable (or both).

The Dust Bug contributes absolutely nothing that is transferred to the speakers. Cecil Watts was far too good and engineer and obsessional to let anything like that happen. I should add that I have discs with no grooves to evaluate that. What you allege does not happen.

 

[highfigh]

I used a dust bug in the 60/70s but was annoyed that it never tracked nicely with the play stylus. It always moved inward too quickly if I recall. Also I never carefully analyzed the situation but theoretically having any object scraping along the top surface during play could potentially cause a noise which travels to the pickup stylus. Heck, if you yell at your record surface during the play of a silent groove simply the vibration or your human voice vibrating the record surface can be detected!

There are some rock groups who attend the cutting of their record and during the lead-out groove they all gather around the cutting lathe and yell at the laquer surface: "Thank you for buying our record!" and that shows up (faintly) in the pressings we buy.

Anyone have an example of that they can link us to? I'll search for one later.

The Dust Bug doesn't need to track in synch with the stylus, it just needs to clean the surface. The time between its cleaning and the stylus passing through the cleaned area isn't enough to matter as long as the air isn't suspending a lot of dust that could drop to the surface.

The mass of the DustBug and the soft, fuzzy brush won't make any noise, nor will the bristles on the brush do that and any noise they do make will be masked by the audio coming from the cartridge.

I doubt many rock groups attended the cutting of their records but if you want to hear the sounds in your room, place the stylus on the surface of an LP when other people are in the room and DON'T start the motor, then record as you would if the LP was spinning. You should be able to hear people talking, footsteps, etc. If the footsteps are loud, you might need isolation for the turntable.

 

[m. zillch]

What you allege does not happen.

I did not allege it happens; I alleged it theoretically might happen.

 

[m. zillch]

I should add that I have discs with no grooves to evaluate that.

It is unclear to me if you mean here literally a blank surface or a surface with a groove cut in it with no recorded sound.