Would a newer receiver sound better?

[gnorthern]

I have a seven-year-old Marantz SR 6013, and I am ready to pay an expert to set it up. Could I get an increase in sound quality if I purchase a receiver for under $2000 and simply replace the entire receiver at the same time?

Somehow it has gone out of balance with one side speakers louder than the other side. Also, side channels are too loud with music compared to dialog. My sub has never consistently worked, which is annoying since the previous one worked flawlessly. I know I can figure out how to set it up correctly but hate doing it. I replaced my Klipsch speakers with Paradigms early last year, and it took a lot of effort to recalibrate my receiver. My wife wanted our Roku to turn both the tv and receiver, and programming it with Audyssey speaker calibration required running an HDMI cable and figuring things out.

I'm just struggling with what to do. My receiver gets about 12 hours a day of use, which means it does not have that much life left in it. I don't want to pay an installer and then pay again in a few years. But it normally sounds great, especially with my newish speakers, and I cannot imagine any improvement in sound.

Thank you for your thoughts.

P.S. If you are wondering about the specs for the receiver:

• 9-channel amplifier
• 110 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08% THD, with 2 channels driven
• Dolby® and DTS® surround sound decoding
  • Dolby Atmos processing for use with in-ceiling or "height" speakers for more enveloping home theater sound
  • supports 5.1.2, 5.1.4, and 7.1.2 Atmos setups with multiple placement patterns for height channels
  • DTS:X for an immersive, 3-dimensional soundstage
  • DTS Virtual:X® creates three-dimensional effects without height speakers
• IMAX Enhanced certification for improved performance with IMAX Enhanced content (via future firmware update)
• video upconversion (up to 1080p and 4K) for analog and HDMI sources
• Audyssey speaker calibration and system optimization includes:
  • MultEQ® XT32 auto setup and room calibration delivers balanced, dynamic sound with enhanced surround performance for as many as eight seating positions
  • Audyssey Dynamic Volume mode to keep listening levels steady
  • Audyssey Dynamic EQ for fuller sound at lower listening levels
  • Audyssey Low Frequency Containment reduces the amount of bass that bleeds into other rooms
  • Audyssey Sub EQ HT provides individual calibration for dual subwoofers, for even bass response throughout the room
  • Audyssey MultEQ app for further audio customization (paid app; not included)

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a seven-year-old Marantz SR 6013, and I am ready to pay an expert to set it up. Could I get an increase in sound quality if I purchase a receiver for under $2000 and simply replace the entire receiver at the same time?

Somehow it has gone out of balance with one side speakers louder than the other side. Also, side channels are too loud with music compared to dialog. My sub has never consistently worked, which is annoying since the previous one worked flawlessly. I know I can figure out how to set it up correctly but hate doing it. I replaced my Klipsch speakers with Paradigms early last year, and it took a lot of effort to recalibrate my receiver. My wife wanted our Roku to turn both the tv and receiver, and programming it with Audyssey speaker calibration required running an HDMI cable and figuring things out.

I'm just struggling with what to do. My receiver gets about 12 hours a day of use, which means it does not have that much life left in it. I don't want to pay an installer and then pay again in a few years. But it normally sounds great, especially with my newish speakers, and I cannot imagine any improvement in sound.

Thank you for your thoughts.

P.S. If you are wondering about the specs for the receiver:

• 9-channel amplifier
• 110 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08% THD, with 2 channels driven
• Dolby® and DTS® surround sound decoding
  • Dolby Atmos processing for use with in-ceiling or "height" speakers for more enveloping home theater sound
  • supports 5.1.2, 5.1.4, and 7.1.2 Atmos setups with multiple placement patterns for height channels
  • DTS:X for an immersive, 3-dimensional soundstage
  • DTS Virtual:X® creates three-dimensional effects without height speakers
• IMAX Enhanced certification for improved performance with IMAX Enhanced content (via future firmware update)
• video upconversion (up to 1080p and 4K) for analog and HDMI sources
• Audyssey speaker calibration and system optimization includes:
  • MultEQ® XT32 auto setup and room calibration delivers balanced, dynamic sound with enhanced surround performance for as many as eight seating positions
  • Audyssey Dynamic Volume mode to keep listening levels steady
  • Audyssey Dynamic EQ for fuller sound at lower listening levels
  • Audyssey Low Frequency Containment reduces the amount of bass that bleeds into other rooms
  • Audyssey Sub EQ HT provides individual calibration for dual subwoofers, for even bass response throughout the room
  • Audyssey MultEQ app for further audio customization (paid app; not included)

The first thing to do is redo the set up. How many channels are you actually using?

I think there is a lot of junk out there in the mid to lower price ranges. So I would see if you can find out if your receiver is OK. I have had bad experiences with what is now mid price Marantz gear in the last five years, where as the gear 14 or so years old is fine. So I have bought at the high end now, an AV 10 and things are fine. it is an excellent unit. So I would say you need to go to the Cinema 50 at least. Things are now so complicated you can't make reliable units on the cheap. It now requires significant investment if you want to avoid recurring problems.

 

[gnorthern]

It is a 7.1 setup. But the 1 is a Paradigm 15", so I am not looking for a second sub (I only need it when sitting in my chair). The two rear speakers are for when my wife and I are sitting at our table eating.

One thing I don't understand with a Cinema 50. Aren't I wasting two channels with a 9.4 set? Seems to me I should be looking for comparable 7.X setup, with the seven channels having comparable specs to the 9.4? I am never going to setup a 9-channel system.

I am thinking I do need to setup my system to see if it is working correctly. I don't want to pay somebody to set it up and find out it is faulty.

 

[Kingnoob]

The first thing to do is redo the set up. How many channels are you actually using?

I think there is a lot of junk out there in the mid to lower price ranges. So I would see if you can find out if your receiver is OK. I have had bad experiences with what is now mid price Marantz gear in the last five years, where as the gear 14 or so years old is fine. So I have bought at the high end now, an AV 10 and things are fine. it is an excellent unit. So I would say you need to go to the Cinema 50 at least. Things are now so complicated you can't make reliable units on the cheap. It now requires significant investment if you want to avoid recurring problems.

If a brands product is so terrible you need to spend 2.8k for a decent receiver. It seems like the customer is getting thrown under the bus these days. but sometimes luxury brands do cost more . Denon x3800 is a bit cheaper .
I don’t know which brand I’ll get when my onkyo dies . I’ll probably use my Yamaha with the lost ypao mic next… but alas no calibration mic.

 

[TLS Guy]

It is a 7.1 setup. But the 1 is a Paradigm 15", so I am not looking for a second sub (I only need it when sitting in my chair). The two rear speakers are for when my wife and I are sitting at our table eating.

One thing I don't understand with a Cinema 50. Aren't I wasting two channels with a 9.4 set? Seems to me I should be looking for comparable 7.X setup, with the seven channels having comparable specs to the 9.4? I am never going to setup a 9-channel system.

I am thinking I do need to setup my system to see if it is working correctly. I don't want to pay somebody to set it up and find out it is faulty.

Yes, you can buy a a receiver with less channels. I did not know how many channels you were using.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

This seems like a setup problem. Like dynamicEQ is on and that’s why the surround speakers are too loud. DEq raises their level in a similar fashion as it raises bass and treble. Make sure it’s turned off. If the sub isn’t consistent, maybe it’s a sound mode thing like Direct is in use and if it’s set to auto detect and default to that, it won’t turn on all the time.
Agree with mark to rerun audyssey.

 

[Madhuski]

If you go into the settings of the receivers, can you check the levels/trims of your speakers?

 

[highfigh]

I have a seven-year-old Marantz SR 6013, and I am ready to pay an expert to set it up. Could I get an increase in sound quality if I purchase a receiver for under $2000 and simply replace the entire receiver at the same time?

Somehow it has gone out of balance with one side speakers louder than the other side. Also, side channels are too loud with music compared to dialog. My sub has never consistently worked, which is annoying since the previous one worked flawlessly. I know I can figure out how to set it up correctly but hate doing it. I replaced my Klipsch speakers with Paradigms early last year, and it took a lot of effort to recalibrate my receiver. My wife wanted our Roku to turn both the tv and receiver, and programming it with Audyssey speaker calibration required running an HDMI cable and figuring things out.

I'm just struggling with what to do. My receiver gets about 12 hours a day of use, which means it does not have that much life left in it. I don't want to pay an installer and then pay again in a few years. But it normally sounds great, especially with my newish speakers, and I cannot imagine any improvement in sound.

Thank you for your thoughts.

P.S. If you are wondering about the specs for the receiver:

• 9-channel amplifier
• 110 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08% THD, with 2 channels driven
• Dolby® and DTS® surround sound decoding
  • Dolby Atmos processing for use with in-ceiling or "height" speakers for more enveloping home theater sound
  • supports 5.1.2, 5.1.4, and 7.1.2 Atmos setups with multiple placement patterns for height channels
  • DTS:X for an immersive, 3-dimensional soundstage
  • DTS Virtual:X® creates three-dimensional effects without height speakers
• IMAX Enhanced certification for improved performance with IMAX Enhanced content (via future firmware update)
• video upconversion (up to 1080p and 4K) for analog and HDMI sources
• Audyssey speaker calibration and system optimization includes:
  • MultEQ® XT32 auto setup and room calibration delivers balanced, dynamic sound with enhanced surround performance for as many as eight seating positions
  • Audyssey Dynamic Volume mode to keep listening levels steady
  • Audyssey Dynamic EQ for fuller sound at lower listening levels
  • Audyssey Low Frequency Containment reduces the amount of bass that bleeds into other rooms
  • Audyssey Sub EQ HT provides individual calibration for dual subwoofers, for even bass response throughout the room
  • Audyssey MultEQ app for further audio customization (paid app; not included)

Hours/day and remaining life makes it seem that you believe electronics have a red rubber popup, like a Butterball turkey. Not true, although electronic devices live much longer if they don't run hot. Make sure the inside is dust-free and if the balance issue takes time to exhibit, it could be due to heat.

The problem with the subwoofer may be related to the output level from the AVR- if it's at the threshold for the sub amp, sustained lower volume signal can cause the sub to shut off- set it to ON, rather than Auto and if the problem stops, increase the AVR's sub output and lower the level on the subwoofer.

 

[Eppie]

If everything sounds very unbalanced, I would reset the receiver back to factory specs and then run setup again. Yes, that can be a lot of work, because you may need to reassign and label your inputs, run the speaker setup and then run Audyssey again. Make note of your current input assignments before performing a reset unless you are using the default factory inputs and labeling. Running the speaker setup is pretty straight forward and does not take that long. Running Audyssey is more time consuming as you need to dig up the mic and make measurements from multiple locations but it's not really that complex if you follow the owner's manual. Set the level volume / input of your new subwoofer to the middle of the dial before re-calibrating. It also does not hurt to recheck the speaker wiring and make sure there are not any stray strands of wire causing issues.

Some receivers can generate white noise as a test to each speaker. Check that white noise levels sound balanced after re-calibration. If the levels still seem very unbalanced after a factory reset and re-calibration, that may indicate a potential hardware issue.

On-line manual is here: https://manuals.marantz.com/sr6013/EU/en/index.php

According to that page, to reset the receiver:
Turn off the power using

.
Press

while simultaneously pressing M-DAX and ZONE2 SOURCE.

Remove your fingers from the two buttons when “Initialized” appears on the display.

 

[ryanosaur]

I’m with the rest of the crew here: your receiver should be fine. I had a 6012 and the only reason I switched it to a newer unit was that I was really wanting to go to separates.
That 6012 was solid and sounded great.

Reset everything to default (whether via factory reset or diving into each menu and doing it manually) and run Audyssey. Basic Audyssey will set everything well enough for 90% of folk. Learning how to make tweaks from there can be as simple as asking for some help here.

 

[j_garcia]

Hours/day and remaining life makes it seem that you believe electronics have a red rubber popup, like a Butterball turkey. Not true, although electronic devices live much longer if they don't run hot. Make sure the inside is dust-free and if the balance issue takes time to exhibit, it could be due to heat.

The problem with the subwoofer may be related to the output level from the AVR- if it's at the threshold for the sub amp, sustained lower volume signal can cause the sub to shut off- set it to ON, rather than Auto and if the problem stops, increase the AVR's sub output and lower the level on the subwoofer.

Yep, either the AVR has a low output voltage or the output is set too low to trigger the sub.

 

[little wing]

I’m with the rest of the crew here: your receiver should be fine. I had a 6012 and the only reason I switched it to a newer unit was that I was really wanting to go to separates.
That 6012 was solid and sounded great.

Reset everything to default (whether via factory reset or diving into each menu and doing it manually) and run Audyssey. Basic Audyssey will set everything well enough for 90% of folk. Learning how to make tweaks from there can be as simple as asking for some help here.

Since you swapped out your AVR for the Marantz pre/pro does your system sound better with seperates? I was thinking of going seperates as well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think there is a lot of junk out there in the mid to lower price ranges.

I thought you were gonna to say, ”All AVR’s are junk, just buy a separates AVP + Amp.

But anyway, what would you consider as “mid price ranges”? $1,000? $2,000?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Since you swapped out your AVR for the Marantz pre/pro does your system sound better with seperates? I was thinking of going seperates as well.

At this point, you have to buy separates. Otherwise, you will just be thinking, “What could’ve been” and “Life is just too short”.

Many of us have bought separates 30 years ago. So we no longer have to scratch that itch.

Now I could just buy an AVR and never ask myself those questions about separates because I’ve been there, done it.

 

[PENG]

Since you swapped out your AVR for the Marantz pre/pro does your system sound better with seperates? I was thinking of going seperates as well.

I have to agree with ADTG, based on your recent posts, you really should go for separate. There really is no separate for HT as such, the AVP is simply and AVR - power amps (functionally speaking, obviously) so it has 90% of the complexity build in but has more room for the video section, the major heat source to breath. The often claimed better sound quality than AVR are mostly generated by the powerful Placebo and bias, one of the biggest myth/scam ever created lol..., but it is so powerful that I would say most users might/could/would hear better sound quality, though still ymmv.

If you can live with the minimalistic video features, vs the Marantz AV10 and AV20, or the AV30, miniDSP's Tide 16 should give you the best available audio performance, I would say even better than the much more expensive Storm audio, even Trinnov. It's also less than half the price (when you factor in the Dirac Live licenses included with the Tide 16 of the AV10, but in the US you probably have to pay more because the dealer won't likely eat the Tariff.

 

[highfigh]

Yep, either the AVR has a low output voltage or the output is set too low to trigger the sub.

And it's easy enough to check the output level and raise that, if needed.

 

[highfigh]

...but in the US you probably have to pay more because the dealer won't likely eat the Tariff.

Nor should they eat the tariff- they're stuck in the middle of this whole thing and if they lose sales just because the prices aren't stable (highly likely), eating that cost could very well kill the business. The only resellers that would likely survive are large enough to have ordered enough inventory before tariff increase and their post tariff orders that they would outlast their competitors. It's never a good idea to have excess inventory, but this is a case where creative management and good relationships with manufacturers can really help.

 

[dolynick]

If you can live with the minimalistic video features, vs the Marantz AV10 and AV20, or the AV30, miniDSP's Tide 16 should give you the best available audio performance, I would say even better than the much more expensive Storm audio, even Trinnov. It's also less than half the price (when you factor in the Dirac Live licenses included with the Tide 16 of the AV10, but in the US you probably have to pay more because the dealer won't likely eat the Tariff.

Sadly, HDMI 2.0 and limited to 4k@60Hz only is pretty much a wet blanket on the Tide 16. It's a non-starter because of it for me. It's a shame because, otherwise, it would of great interest to me. It makes no sense to me why, then I expect the build cost difference to just use current spec HDMI would likely be trivial (a few dollars?), they would handicap what is clearly meant to be a high-end solution.

Sorry. I know this is slightly off topic but this is the first mention of the Tide 16 I've seen mentioned here so far.

 

[Wardog555]

Step one. Calibrate the speaker levels to mlp.

The only thing I can think of when speakers are unbalanced

 

[TLS Guy]

I thought you were gonna to say, ”All AVR’s are junk, just buy a separates AVP + Amp.

But anyway, what would you consider as “mid price ranges”? $1,000? $2,000?

Sorry, I have been neglecting this post for a while, but things are hectic here in Minnesota. We have had a massive invasion by fascist Gestapo, and I'm not kidding. So, I am a little preoccupied.

Anyhow I had not idea of budget and even more importantly how many channels he required.

I have come to the conclusion that the addition of these Atmos channels has caused a significant decrease in quality to maintain price.

There really needs to be higher quality simpler units at a price more can afford. That means two or three channel units and may be 5.1 and not Audyssey or Dirac.

Most room are not suitable for more than 3.2 any way.

I agree separates is the way to go, but the cost for many will be too steep.

Those Marantz 7705 and 7706 I have come to the conclusion are in the Junk category. The 7705 failed at 5 years and would have damaged a lot of speaker systems. I have 8806 back, but it is really not a quality unit. The SNR is just not up to it. It is better in a 2.2 system, but I usually sit closer to the speakers, and you can hear background at the seated position. I can NOT recommend those units. The two older 7701 units I have a much better. The one in the Great room has hours upon hours of use and is a real workhorse. So with Atmos basic quality has gone down the tubes.

So that means the AV 20 or AV 10. When you add all the power amps required that puts the system out of the reach of the many.

If I could not design and build my speakers and have good vintage gear that I can service, there is no way I could afford the quality of the system I enjoy.