Looking to upgrade my turntable

[Mike Up]

The old stock is interesting. What did the retailers say about the ATs when you returned them?

It was through Amazon online orders, so the turntables just go back to them. Someone will buy these like they are, judging by reviews, bluetooth playback has a higher priority than their actual performance.

I thought by buying from actual Amazon, who does the most sales, I would get a newer, current production model, no so.

 

[Mike Up]

Don't use any water-based solution-in the 50+ years of that stuff's existance, I have yet to see a disc that didn't have residue on the surface.

Distilled water and Isopropyl alcohol would evaporate without any residue. In fact they are used to take the residue away from finger prints and dust, and other sticky stuff on the albums you get from decades of use.

 

[m. zillch]

Never thought to use isopropyl alcohol but it made me curious so I just watched this video thinking it would be an interesting experiment until I heard his demos. He's one of these people who turns on the voice memo app on their cellphone and holds it up to their speaker to make a recording of a record.

Another issue with his test is the alcohol may dissolve the inks in the label and the floating-around ink may then redeposit in the grooves. Yuck.

 

[lovinthehd]

It was through Amazon online orders, so the turntables just go back to them. Someone will buy these like they are, judging by reviews, bluetooth playback has a higher priority than their actual performance.

I thought by buying from actual Amazon, who does the most sales, I would get a newer, current production model, no so.

Do they, though? Did you ship back to the retailer or to Amazon themselves? Could just end up in one of those mystery pallets you can buy.

I'm just surprised twice you got old stock like that. Maybe they overproduced or maybe they're just hoping not to get too many returns? Crazy.

 

[TLS Guy]

Distilled water and Isopropyl alcohol would evaporate without any residue. In fact they are used to take the residue away from finger prints and dust, and other sticky stuff on the albums you get from decades of use.

What that actually does is drive the muck deeper in the grooves where it makes more noise. Cecil Watts showed that with his electron micrographs. If you are going to use liquids, then it needs to be done via a potent vacuum system, and I mean really potent.

 

[Mike Up]

I have a ZZ Top Tejas Record that I got used right around 1982, so it could be an original pressing. I cleaned it up with the Audio Technica 6012 Kit and man did this album sound good. Granted is has all kinds of scratches and minimal warp. Hardly any pops and crackles. Just sounded clean.

I once again compared against my Wiim Pro Plus playing this same album in the FLAC format at 16bit/44.1Khz.

This time, the record had less bass and less high end. No Vinyl album and FLAC Album offer the same sound. Different Masters obviously. So I did some research and the orginal pressings of Tejas has less bass, where new vinyl pressing had a different master with more bass.

Funny I use to be a purist and would not touch the bass/treble knobs and still don't for that matter. Then we have so many different masters for the same album, we don't need to with the studios doing it for us.
Billy Squier's Enough is Enough has the closest master between Vinyl and FLAC that I've heard and still prefer the vinyl master. For that matter, ZZ top Tejas is the only album that doesn't sound as good as the FLAC file but stll sound pretty good for an old scratched album back from the 70s !

 

[highfigh]

Distilled water and Isopropyl alcohol would evaporate without any residue. In fact they are used to take the residue away from finger prints and dust, and other sticky stuff on the albums you get from decades of use.

DI water is what was used in Discwasher's D2, D3 and probably D4 liquid, but after seeing the residue from all but Alcohol. I stopped using liquids in about 1978. Been around this stuff for 50 years- I know what has been used. Ever look at the surface of an LP under a microscope? I have. It's not pretty.

The only cleaners that remove most of the liquid without leaving residue use vacuum, rather than evaporation.

Why would LPs have sticky stuff on them unless people are touching the surface? Anyone who knows how to maintain LPs understands that fingers NEVER touch the surface.

 

[Mikado463]

as another long time(55 plus years) of spinning vinyl my go-to's are my VIP vacuum and my Degritor ultra sonic. Liquid choices are distilled water and L'Art du Son concentrate.

L'Art du Son - Record Cleaning Solution (100 ml)

Developed with the utmost care and expertise, this specialized fluid effectively removes dirt, dust, and grime from your records' grooves.

soundapproach.com

.

 

[Mike Up]

DI water is what was used in Discwasher's D2, D3 and probably D4 liquid, but after seeing the residue from all but Alcohol. I stopped using liquids in about 1978. Been around this stuff for 50 years- I know what has been used. Ever look at the surface of an LP under a microscope? I have. It's not pretty.

The only cleaners that remove most of the liquid without leaving residue use vacuum, rather than evaporation.

Why would LPs have sticky stuff on them unless people are touching the surface? Anyone who knows how to maintain LPs understands that fingers NEVER touch the surface.

Most people who listened to albums before there was a thing called "CD" weren't anal about listening to the albums and handled them like they enjoyed the music more than the piece of plastic itself.

Then if they did get finger print smudges or dust on them, they cleaned them with a brush or brush and cleaning solution. That's the way it was done in the day. We were about the music not about destroying the moment because we were anal about how we touch the records.

Like I said, those finger prints and smudges all come off with cleaner and a brush.

The same is true with CDs!! People get finger prints on them all the time. When they stop playing correctly and start skipping or just stop playing, you pull out the CD cleaner and wipe those prints away. Again, then all is good with a fresh start on the CD.

Lets not make a muontain out of a molehill here, just clean it, listen to it, enjoy it, and repeat as necessary!

 

[highfigh]

Most people who listened to albums before there was a thing called "CD" weren't anal about listening to the albums and handled them like they enjoyed the music more than the piece of plastic itself.

Then if they did get finger print smudges or dust on them, they cleaned them with a brush or brush and cleaning solution. That's the way it was done in the day. We were about the music not about destroying the moment because we were anal about how we touch the records.

Like I said, those finger prints and smudges all come off with cleaner and a brush.

The same is true with CDs!! People get finger prints on them all the time. When they stop playing correctly and start skipping or just stop playing, you pull out the CD cleaner and wipe those prints away. Again, then all is good with a fresh start on the CD.

Lets not make a muontain out of a molehill here, just clean it, listen to it, enjoy it, and repeat as necessary!

Were you using LPs in the '70s? I knew a few who handled theirs carelessly, but anyone who didn't want them to sound like crap only held them by the edges and when I started working at a stereo store in 1978, a lot of people were even more anal than we were.

CDs have error correction and a smooth surface, not a groove that's a lot more difficult to clean. Big difference.

 

[Mikado463]

Most people who listened to albums before there was a thing called "CD" weren't anal about listening to the albums and handled them like they enjoyed the music more than the piece of plastic itself.

in your circle perhaps, but as a young lad growing up in the sixties and spending my hard earned money for what music I was able to buy, I took care of my Lp's. Granted, my methods weren't what they are today but I (along MANY others) never handled their collection the way you speak !

 

[lovinthehd]

Were you using LPs in the '70s? I knew a few who handled theirs carelessly, but anyone who didn't want them to sound like crap only held them by the edges and when I started working at a stereo store in 1978, a lot of people were even more anal than we were.

CDs have error correction and a smooth surface, not a groove that's a lot more difficult to clean. Big difference.

I was, and many of my friends definitely were on the careless side with vinyl. Many had crappy players too. I was a bit on the anal side and they didn't always appreciate my handle by the edges request, but mostly I just did the handling myself at home (and didn't take my vinyl to others' houses/parties). Sticky stuff from parties, sure.

 

[m. zillch]

I know one guy I wouldn't recommend taking record handling advice from:

https://beatlesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/john-with-singles.jpg

 

[Mikado463]

I know one guy I wouldn't recommend taking record handling advice from:

https://beatlesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/john-with-singles.jpg

I will admit I didn't handle my 45's as well as my Lp's back in the day ........

 

[Mike Up]

Well I have been listening to more vinyl then ever and just bought my first record since the mid 90s. I found Chicago greatest hits for $20!

Since I have absolutely no cds or cassettes of Chicago, I figured this would be a good format to make the first. I do listen to Chicago all the time on Tidal and their albums, just never owned anything by them.

Well, I tried to cancel the Denon order but it went through. I tried to cancel because of the common speed defect of this player. So good so far but the motor speed issue happens down the road.

I am still having a hard time getting over how cheap it is built with all the plastic and a steel plate screw to the bottom plastic to make it heavier and maybe help with vibration. Its just cheap with upper end styled plastic.

The problem just keep getting better as Im finding it very hard to find parts for this. Yes there is after market but I want OEM like you can get with other brands. I cant find the headshell or the stylus for sale expect for one spot for each and their prices are high with shipping.

Still cant find an OEM belt. This is a real turn off for this turntable as it seems obsolete with no available parts right as I bought it. I dont like that along with the fear of getting the fast speed problem besides the cheap build qualty.

Yes I know for $200 to $300 more I can get a qualty turntable. Yet that is out of my budget. I know they are expensive because its a dead format that has come back because its in style now and prices reflect that.

So I decided to try a Fluance RT-82. All of my gear is black with audio cabinet having black shelves and grey legs. I didnt go with the piano black finish because to me, it just looks like plastic that I had on the Denon and Audio Technica turntables. I went with Walnut as it matches my tv stand and other furniture plus I feel the simulated wood vinyl veneer looks much more classic and high end sincd its wrapping a solid piece of MDF.

I talked like 30 minutes to the fluance rep and he was a really good rep. Told him my concerns and he explained why I shouldnt have to worry about bad motors, noisy motors, or speed problems.

He explained to me about the 30 day trial and how I would not be out of any money if I sent it back. Also he explained after the 30 days, if I ever needed warranty, that I would only be responsible for shipping to them as they would pay return shipping. Not the best, but I could live with that.

I think Im going to go with the Fluance, if I like it, as it seems other brands Im finding had the same motor problems and were worse. Fluance has fixed their motors now.

Plus Im getting a higher end Ortofon OM 10 cartridge and belt and stylus are easy to purchase.

Plus Im getting it cheaper than the Denon thats on sale, because I got a 5% off coupon.

I just cant get past the cheap plastic build of the Denon when it cost $350 on sale. Its an absolute rip off at its normal price of $500.

Other brands offer MDF plinths for $400 to $500. I thought the Denon was MDF when I initially ordered it as incorrect information was on the internet. Imagine that!

 

[Mike Up]

I got most of my albums in my teen and pre-teen years. We werent well off so I played them on a low end Radio Shack Stereo record player, then to a piece of crap Sound Designs 1 piece unit with separate full range, 1 driver tower speakers. Both system had ceramic catridges and had a high pitch resonance to the sound. Cassettes sounded much better. I was highly appreciative to have both of those as they were a lot of money to us.

My records did get scratched and had finger prints on them because I honestly didnt know they were as fragile as they are. Plus cleaners worked good and being I was listening on very bad sounding systems, you couldnt really hear much of a difference. I was listening for the music, not the sound quality.

 

[dolynick]

So I decided to try a Fluance RT-82. All of my gear is black with audio cabinet having black shelves and grey legs. I didnt go with the piano black finish because to me, it just looks like plastic that I had on the Denon and Audio Technica turntables. I went with Walnut as it matches my tv stand and other furniture plus I feel the simulated wood vinyl veneer looks much more classic and high end sincd its wrapping a solid piece of MDF.

I picked up a Fluance RT-82+ for my father shortly before xmas. While you can tell it's not really high end on some bits, it is reasonably well made for the price point I think and the solid plinth gives it a nice feel. He's been happy with it so far. You're probably a bit more demanding than he is though so I am curious how you feel about yours once it arrives.

 

[Mike Up]

There is the RT81+ and the RT82. They didnt have a RT82+ when I ordered yesterday. I went back and forth on those two as they are the same price of $350. I eventually decided on the RT82.

I didnt need the preamp of the RT81+ as my Denon AVR-X2800H has its own phono preamp plus I have an ART DJ Ii phono preamp I used with my Denon AVR-2312ci when I had the previous Sony PS-LX350H turntable (Had a drifting speed defect).

I will report back with my findings on the RT82 after I put it through the paces.