Least worst option for connecting existing speakers wireless for rear surround

[TLS Guy]

@TLS Guy thanks. The room is unfortunately what it is.

I'm assuming your "do more harm than good" has nothing to do with wired or not? Is the issue that I cannot get them far enough behind the listener?

As to the front speakers are you just speaking of bigger, did you know something bad about those in particular?

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Well, I got the unit. The good news is the latency in a brief test with a scope was 16.4ms, well within the ability to correct. I did some experimenting with the output from an ESP32 and the DAC inside PC, and both could not produce a clean sine wave even, so I did not bother trying to do any kind of distortion analysis (and I have nothing at all in the audio realm, just stuff for debugging regular digital electronics).

The mediocre news is I can't manage to get it to pair at 5.6ghz, only 5.2ghz, though that may not be much issue.

The really bad news is that I had mis-read my receiver's manual. It covered two variants, and the variant I have has no pre-amp output. So I'm taking already amplified signals as input, which the device can do, but is an awful approach. I have an unamplified zone 2 out, but it can't be adjusted to be specific channels, only a stereo out.

I'm going to go ahead and hook it up the "bad" way and see what happens.

Yes, the problem is that you can not place the surrounds in a location that makes sense. The bigger issue is that you want to worry about your front sound field before giving the slightest attention to any more speakers.

 

[Linwood]

I use a universal remote with macros, so turns on/off with what activity I select. I find this most useful rather than worrying about individual units

But these don't have any sort of remote, no IR, no 12v trigger... just a physical power switch and power cable. To turn them off would require a smart outlet for the power.

It says they go into standby mode with no signal, it just feels better if they actually turned off.

 

[Linwood]

Yes, the problem is that you can not place the surrounds in a location that makes sense. The bigger issue is that you want to worry about you front sound field before giving the slightest attention to any more speakers.

I ordered some stands to at least get them up and separated as far as the room allows. I'll use the same stands for the surrounds, I can get pretty reasonable separation there, and I don't see a reason not to move the sofa off that wall. There's 12' to the front of the sofa now, 2' won't be a world of difference but it does significantly change the angle of the surrounds from the center. Do those things seem at least incremental improvements?

Or are you saying that the speakers (Klipsch Quintets) are just so woefully inadequate nothing will help?

 

[everettT]

I ordered some stands to at least get them up and separated as far as the room allows. I'll use the same stands for the surrounds, I can get pretty reasonable separation there, and I don't see a reason not to move the sofa off that wall. There's 12' to the front of the sofa now, 2' won't be a world of difference but it does significantly change the angle of the surrounds from the center. Do those things seem at least incremental improvements?

Or are you saying that the speakers (Klipsch Quintets) are just so woefully inadequate nothing will help?

You don't need rear surrounds with your space and should only focus on 5.1.X, with the prime focus being on the front three and the sub for the most reward with the current setup. Good luck moving forward and am glad you're happy so far.

 

[Linwood]

I thought 5.1 meant L/R front, Center, L/R surround? The latter is what I was talking about behind the sofa. I understand they should be about 100 degrees from the listener (relative to the center). So slightly behind, head-live or a bit above? I didn't plan on surround back (that's the 7.x right?).

Postscript: Like this except may be 100 degrees since I have a wall in the way.

 

[lovinthehd]

I thought 5.1 meant L/R front, Center, L/R surround? The latter is what I was talking about behind the sofa. I understand they should be about 100 degrees from the listener (relative to the center). So slightly behind, head-live or a bit above? I didn't plan on surround back (that's the 7.x right?).

Postscript: Like this except may be 100 degrees since I have a wall in the way.

Generally surrounds belong to L/R of seating postion plus/minus 20 degrees or so. Raising them above seated level can work well (but not particularly combined with an Atmos setup).

 

[lovinthehd]

But these don't have any sort of remote, no IR, no 12v trigger... just a physical power switch and power cable. To turn them off would require a smart outlet for the power.

It says they go into standby mode with no signal, it just feels better if they actually turned off.

Smart outlets can work, but just depends on level of convenience you want and what gear you have whether a universal can work.

 

[everettT]

I thought 5.1 meant L/R front, Center, L/R surround? The latter is what I was talking about behind the sofa. I understand they should be about 100 degrees from the listener (relative to the center). So slightly behind, head-live or a bit above? I didn't plan on surround back (that's the 7.x right?).

Postscript: Like this except may be 100 degrees since I have a wall in the way.

Yes, that is the layout we're speaking of and why I asked about whether you were using the wireless setup as rears or surrounds earlier. If you're getting satisfaction from the new setup, that's great, I was referring to upgrades in the future to that setup.

 

[Linwood]

Generally surrounds belong to L/R of seating postion plus/minus 20 degrees or so. Raising them above seated level can work well (but not particularly combined with an Atmos setup).

No plans to add atmos, especially since that would need a separate AVR. And likely wasted in that room. At worst I might add some better speakers, but despite their tiny size, these sound quite impressively good (but again with the caveat of not having experience in what good really is).

I spent another hour or so experimenting and using it, still no unusual sounds from them to indicate network issues; so far so good.

 

[KenM10759]

My son has a 16' x 25' room (about an 8' ceiling) and has his setup in the narrow wall. Also owing to the way the room is constructed in his 150 yr old home, he's got the rear speakers of the 7.1 system at the far opposite end and connected with a Rocketfish wireless amp system. The DSP of his Sony STR-ZA5000ES works great to set everything and it sounds fantastic. Much ado about nothing here.

 

[Linwood]

You guys have some kind of weird voodoo... I went to Best Buy to get speaker wire to put the speakers up on the stand (if Amazon ever comes), and right in front of that lane was a nice tall pair of Klipsch 6.5" 2-way floor speakers. Almost like they had an "Adopt me" sign on the front. Unfortunately in black, I think Brown would fit better so I managed to walk past them.

But this "fix the front' aspect has somehow gotten in my head! Shame on you.

 

[TLS Guy]

You guys have some kind of weird voodoo... I went to Best Buy to get speaker wire to put the speakers up on the stand (if Amazon ever comes), and right in front of that lane was a nice tall pair of Klipsch 6.5" 2-way floor speakers. Almost like they had an "Adopt me" sign on the front. Unfortunately in black, I think Brown would fit better so I managed to walk past them.

But this "fix the front' aspect has somehow gotten in my head! Shame on you.

Well you do have to fix it, what you are using is on the level of a very cheap toy, and a nasty one at that.

 

[Linwood]

Well you do have to fix it, what you are using is on the level of a very cheap toy, and a nasty one at that.

The rule is "He who dies with the most toys wins". It doesn't say cheap toys are excluded.

The problem is this is like pulling on a loose thread on a sweater... front speakers will require a better center, and somewhere around then I'll want a better AVR. Then I'll stick the two current front speakers in the surround spot to make it seem bigger and not like that and have to buy new surround speakers. Someone will say "you don't want to do all that without atmos" (despite having a low ceiling).... and the sweater that was mostly covering me will be in the floor in threads.

Though it might not keep me from searching for black friday deals.

 

[lovinthehd]

The rule is "He who dies with the most toys wins". It doesn't say cheap toys are excluded.

The problem is this is like pulling on a loose thread on a sweater... front speakers will require a better center, and somewhere around then I'll want a better AVR. Then I'll stick the two current front speakers in the surround spot to make it seem bigger and not like that and have to buy new surround speakers. Someone will say "you don't want to do all that without atmos" (despite having a low ceiling).... and the sweater that was mostly covering me will be in the floor in threads.

Though it might not keep me from searching for black friday deals.

LOL used to be a big proponent of that most toys nonsense, particularly with my brother . We both have changed our minds over the years. With audio what is a "better" avr (other than TLS' fantasy about his new pre-pro). Having the same speakers all around in surround can be great, or at least like you said moving your last fronts on upgrading to surround duties.

 

[Linwood]

With audio what is a "better" avr (other than TLS' fantasy about his new pre-pro).

Well, I'm still irritated about not having pre-amp outs for the surrounds. Irritated at myself for looking at the wrong diagram. My ear can't tell it is bad, but sending those outputs through two separate amplifiers has to be doing really bad things. And if I start buying all new stuff I assume I want something to support atmos even though it may be wasted in that room.

Having the same speakers all around in surround can be great, or at least like you said moving your last fronts on upgrading to surround duties.

The L/R and SL/SR are all the same type of speaker now. I was mostly joking about doubling up for the surrounds (with new fronts), I assume that paralleling them will not add anything really useful (I don't need more volume).

Nice L/R speakers would be good, but I really suspect the current center has to be replaced if I go there. The SubWoofer is probably adequate.

Who knows, Black Friday sales may catch me in a mood.

The RP-8000F II in walnut would lo ok nice in there. No idea how it will sound but I've got a good spot for them.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, I'm still irritated about not having pre-amp outs for the surrounds. Irritated at myself for looking at the wrong diagram. My ear can't tell it is bad, but sending those outputs through two separate amplifiers has to be doing really bad things. And if I start buying all new stuff I assume I want something to support atmos even though it may be wasted in that room.



The L/R and SL/SR are all the same type of speaker now. I was mostly joking about doubling up for the surrounds (with new fronts), I assume that paralleling them will not add anything really useful (I don't need more volume).

Nice L/R speakers would be good, but I really suspect the current center has to be replaced if I go there. The SubWoofer is probably adequate.

Who knows, Black Friday sales may catch me in a mood.

The RP-8000F II in walnut would lo ok nice in there. No idea how it will sound but I've got a good spot for them.

What avr do you have that has limited pre-outs? Why would you particularly want to duplicate any surrounds speakers/

 

[everettT]

The rule is "He who dies with the most toys wins". It doesn't say cheap toys are excluded.

The problem is this is like pulling on a loose thread on a sweater... front speakers will require a better center, and somewhere around then I'll want a better AVR. Then I'll stick the two current front speakers in the surround spot to make it seem bigger and not like that and have to buy new surround speakers. Someone will say "you don't want to do all that without atmos" (despite having a low ceiling).... and the sweater that was mostly covering me will be in the floor in threads.

Though it might not keep me from searching for black friday deals.

JBL and Revel tend to run 50% off deals a couple of times a year which can be a tremendous bargain. Many other great speaker deals (not necessarily big discounts but high value products that are sold ID only) can be had outside of the big box retailers as well.

If you don't mind used a few sweet deals pop up every now and then, and one of the regular sites I've purchased from and sold through is
https://www.usaudiomart.com/

Glad to see you falling down the rabbit hole, lol.

Edit: Kef is having good sale currently FYI

 

[TLS Guy]

The rule is "He who dies with the most toys wins". It doesn't say cheap toys are excluded.

The problem is this is like pulling on a loose thread on a sweater... front speakers will require a better center, and somewhere around then I'll want a better AVR. Then I'll stick the two current front speakers in the surround spot to make it seem bigger and not like that and have to buy new surround speakers. Someone will say "you don't want to do all that without atmos" (despite having a low ceiling).... and the sweater that was mostly covering me will be in the floor in threads.

Though it might not keep me from searching for black friday deals.

I don't think a center is mandatory at all. A couple of decent left and right speakers would work wonders for your system. A center is not mandatory and most are poorly designed and I bet a lot do more harm than good. Essentially good left and right speakers should be right at the heart of your system. Actually good left and right speakers and may be a decent sub give you 90% of your system and the rest 10% above at best. Most of us have been very content with two good speakers in a system most of our lives. I use a two channel system in our family room daily.

 

[Kingnoob]

No plans to add atmos, especially since that would need a separate AVR. And likely wasted in that room. At worst I might add some better speakers, but despite their tiny size, these sound quite impressively good (but again with the caveat of not having experience in what good really is).

I spent another hour or so experimenting and using it, still no unusual sounds from them to indicate network issues; so far so good.

Which Klipsch Quintets model are you using?
I tried sats but not that model, a similar sized jamo .. but I no longer have the center to compare to my larger Klipsch icon one.
The jamo was mysteriously gotten rid of without me knowing ,ypao setup mic . Etc and more stuff I wish had put somewhere else.

Well, I'm still irritated about not having pre-amp outs for the surrounds. Irritated at myself for looking at the wrong diagram. My ear can't tell it is bad, but sending those outputs through two separate amplifiers has to be doing really bad things. And if I start buying all new stuff I assume I want something to support atmos even though it may be wasted in that room.



The L/R and SL/SR are all the same type of speaker now. I was mostly joking about doubling up for the surrounds (with new fronts), I assume that paralleling them will not add anything really useful (I don't need more volume).

Nice L/R speakers would be good, but I really suspect the current center has to be replaced if I go there. The SubWoofer is probably adequate.

Who knows, Black Friday sales may catch me in a mood.

The RP-8000F II in walnut would lo ok nice in there. No idea how it will sound but I've got a good spot for them.

yeah they do look nice,
I wanted the bigger version of my icon towers but they were too big and heavy. Would have been a pain carrying them upstairs for a bedroom system. These new rp look much better or fancier not sure if anyone compared them to icons or references.

I don't think a center is mandatory at all. A couple of decent left and right speakers would work wonders for your system. A center is not mandatory and most are poorly designed and I bet a lot do more harm than good. Essentially good left and right speakers should be right at the heart of your system. Actually good left and right speakers and may be a decent sub give you 90% of your system and the rest 10% above at best. Most of us have been very content with two good speakers in a system most of our lives. I use a two channel system in our family room daily.

I’m running phantom. Not necessarily by Choice but it works fine so far. No room for a center would require raising the tv higher than I want . Another 8”+ although I wanted to do it was talked out of it .

 

[Linwood]

Which Klipsch Quintets model are you using?

I think the originals. I can't find when I bought them but I think maybe 10-15 years ago.

Now that they are up on stands they look incredibly tiny. Like silly tiny. Really tiny. Still sounds awfully good for the size though.

I have a center because I listen about 95% to movies, and understand it helps with more clear dialog? I think I certainly need it with the wimpy L/R I have now.

I've been reading a lot, and with no access to the ceiling over the listening area, my excuse for upgrading the AVR to get atmos seems pointless, but newer (notably some higher end) appear to have better room mapping programs than the YPAO that I have now (dating from 10-15 years ago), to help mitigate some of the poor room shape issues. Maybe?

Why did I start pulling on this thread....