Denon x4800h vs Onkyo RZ70

[Edens101]

Building a new home theater set up and trying to decide on a receiver. I have previously used the Yamaha RX-A6A and really enjoyed the functionality it offers. 8k HDMI, HDR support, PEQ with 7 bands per channel and 4 bands per sub output, Musicast app, the web interface and network command capabilities. However I have discovered the limiters they put in place on output power and realized that at 7 channels driven it is limiting me in the mid 50 watts per channel.

Looking for something that can provide similar functionality and more power per channel in the $2-2500k range. I will be driving a 7.2.2 system with SVS Ultra Towers and center, dual PB-2000 Pros, and Prime Satellite and Elevation speakers for surround and height channels. The PB-2000 pros already have the built in DSP with a 3 band EQ per sub. Focus is movie watching and I do generally listen at fairly loud levels. Stuck between the Denon AVR x4800h or the Onkyo TX-RZ70 which are both on sale currently for $1,870 and $2,061 respectively which are great deals on both. I’ve also seen the Sony AZ5000ES that is intriguing and in the same price range.

Onkyo provides considerably more power (133 watts at 7 channels), supports Dirac, but lacks true PEQ capabilities. The Denon offers both Audyssey and Dirac with better EQ capabilities, but slightly less power output (low 100s at 7 channels). The Sony is getting great reviews for its surround reproduction.

Any input on these options? Obviously I could go with an AVR and add an external amp on top, but the A6A is currently $2,500 compared to these two higher powered AVRs that are currently cheaper.

 

[jfortado]

Building a new home theater set up and trying to decide on a receiver. I have previously used the Yamaha RX-A6A and really enjoyed the functionality it offers. 8k HDMI, HDR support, PEQ with 7 bands per channel and 4 bands per sub output, Musicast app, the web interface and network command capabilities. However I have discovered the limiters they put in place on output power and realized that at 7 channels driven it is limiting me in the mid 50 watts per channel.

Looking for something that can provide similar functionality and more power per channel in the $2-2500k range. I will be driving a 7.2.2 system with SVS Ultra Towers and center, dual PB-2000 Pros, and Prime Satellite and Elevation speakers for surround and height channels. The PB-2000 pros already have the built in DSP with a 3 band EQ per sub. Focus is movie watching and I do generally listen at fairly loud levels. Stuck between the Denon AVR x4800h or the Onkyo TX-RZ70 which are both on sale currently for $1,870 and $2,061 respectively which are great deals on both. I’ve also seen the Sony AZ5000ES that is intriguing and in the same price range.

Onkyo provides considerably more power (133 watts at 7 channels), supports Dirac, but lacks true PEQ capabilities. The Denon offers both Audyssey and Dirac with better EQ capabilities, but slightly less power output (low 100s at 7 channels). The Sony is getting great reviews for its surround reproduction.

Any input on these options? Obviously I could go with an AVR and add an external amp on top, but the A6A is currently $2,500 compared to these two higher powered AVRs that are currently cheaper.

I have a Denon 3800 and added a power amp to go with it. The AVR’s amps were good but I needed more dynamic headroom in my space to get it as loud and full sounding as I wanted it when I really turned up the volume. Denon 3800 and 4800 can both go into full preamp mode which is great also.

 

[Edens101]

I have a Denon 3800 and added a power amp to go with it. The AVR’s amps were good but I needed more dynamic headroom in my space to get it as loud and full sounding as I wanted it when I really turned up the volume. Denon 3800 and 4800 can both go into full preamp mode which is great also.

That’s funny, I was looking at that as a solution today. The 3800 is on sale for $1,200 right now, looking to use an Outlaw 5000x to run LCR and surrounds at 120w at 5 channels, let the 3800 run the rear surround and height channels. Just under $2k for the two combined.

 

[lovinthehd]

The ACD ratings are relatively meaningless for actual use fwiw. Your avr has the capability of putting out 150wpc otherwise (as needed in each channel). Why not just add an external amp to your Yamaha if you really think more power is needed beyond the on-board amps?

 

[Edens101]

The ACD ratings are relatively meaningless for actual use fwiw. Your avr has the capability of putting out 150wpc otherwise (as needed in each channel). Why not just add an external amp to your Yamaha if you really think more power is needed beyond the on-board amps?

The Yamaha was in a theater at the house I am selling and I will be building a new setup, so I am open to other options.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd probably do the Denon 3800 with a power amp (if really needed)....the 4800 really has no advantage but a fairly meaningless bit of extra power.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah ACD doesn’t matter to me. Limiting ACD to protect the circuits and keeping heat down is a plus to me.

I wouldn’t let some technical numbers determine what I buy.

What matters is the sound quality and the functionality.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah ACD doesn’t matter to me. Limiting ACD to protect the circuits and keeping heat down is a plus to me.

I wouldn’t let some technical numbers determine what I buy.

What matters is the sound quality and the functionality.

What would the "sound quality" differences amount to?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What would the "sound quality" differences amount to?

Every brand or even unit may have a different setup - EQ, RC, etc. A lot of times, the setup determines the sound quality.

It seems not everyone finds it easy to get the setup they want. So if someone has the sound they want and all the functionality they want, it’s probably a not a good idea to change just because of some numbers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Every brand or even unit may have a different setup - EQ, RC, etc. A lot of times, the setup determines the sound quality.

It seems not everyone finds it easy to get the setup they want. So if someone has the sound they want and all the functionality they want, it’s probably a good idea not to change just because of some numbers.

I can see different dsp making a difference (which I wouldn't call sound quality particularly, just a matter of taste as well as the effectiveness of the dsp implementation), not so much otherwise. The more tweakable to taste the better I'd think.

 

[dlaloum]

I probably would not consider the X4800... the feature set is the same as the X3800 for a premium price - if you need more power/current, then you need an external amp, or you need to be looking much further up the range (X6800/A10H)...
If you want an integrated AVR (no external power), then the Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer RZ70 and siblings provide great value, and high current capability.

You will need to trawl through the feature details for differences.... in actual deployed use, I think there would be no audible difference between properly configured X3800+high current power amps, vs RZ70...

Keep in mind that if you want DLBC (or ART next year) - then the Denon has to bear additional software costs for both Dirac Live and DLBC where the Onkyo comes with Dirac Live, and you add DLBC...

I doubt there would be anything in it between them price wise.

Also keep in mind, that due to the main load being L/C/R - the external power amp need only cover those, not the surround and height channels, you can leverage the internal AVR amps for surround and height without compromising, as you effectively free up a lot of current/power that way. So you needn't be looking for a huge multichannel power amp, a single high current stereo amp, will probably be ample (leave the C on the AVR as well).

 

[Tipsy]

Building a new home theater set up and trying to decide on a receiver. I have previously used the Yamaha RX-A6A and really enjoyed the functionality it offers. 8k HDMI, HDR support, PEQ with 7 bands per channel and 4 bands per sub output, Musicast app, the web interface and network command capabilities. However I have discovered the limiters they put in place on output power and realized that at 7 channels driven it is limiting me in the mid 50 watts per channel.

Looking for something that can provide similar functionality and more power per channel in the $2-2500k range. I will be driving a 7.2.2 system with SVS Ultra Towers and center, dual PB-2000 Pros, and Prime Satellite and Elevation speakers for surround and height channels. The PB-2000 pros already have the built in DSP with a 3 band EQ per sub. Focus is movie watching and I do generally listen at fairly loud levels. Stuck between the Denon AVR x4800h or the Onkyo TX-RZ70 which are both on sale currently for $1,870 and $2,061 respectively which are great deals on both. I’ve also seen the Sony AZ5000ES that is intriguing and in the same price range.

Onkyo provides considerably more power (133 watts at 7 channels), supports Dirac, but lacks true PEQ capabilities. The Denon offers both Audyssey and Dirac with better EQ capabilities, but slightly less power output (low 100s at 7 channels). The Sony is getting great reviews for its surround reproduction.

Any input on these options? Obviously I could go with an AVR and add an external amp on top, but the A6A is currently $2,500 compared to these two higher powered AVRs that are currently cheaper.

Building a new home theater set up and trying to decide on a receiver. I have previously used the Yamaha RX-A6A and really enjoyed the functionality it offers. 8k HDMI, HDR support, PEQ with 7 bands per channel and 4 bands per sub output, Musicast app, the web interface and network command capabilities. However I have discovered the limiters they put in place on output power and realized that at 7 channels driven it is limiting me in the mid 50 watts per channel.

Looking for something that can provide similar functionality and more power per channel in the $2-2500k range. I will be driving a 7.2.2 system with SVS Ultra Towers and center, dual PB-2000 Pros, and Prime Satellite and Elevation speakers for surround and height channels. The PB-2000 pros already have the built in DSP with a 3 band EQ per sub. Focus is movie watching and I do generally listen at fairly loud levels. Stuck between the Denon AVR x4800h or the Onkyo TX-RZ70 which are both on sale currently for $1,870 and $2,061 respectively which are great deals on both. I’ve also seen the Sony AZ5000ES that is intriguing and in the same price range.

Onkyo provides considerably more power (133 watts at 7 channels), supports Dirac, but lacks true PEQ capabilities. The Denon offers both Audyssey and Dirac with better EQ capabilities, but slightly less power output (low 100s at 7 channels). The Sony is getting great reviews for its surround reproduction.

Any input on these options? Obviously I could go with an AVR and add an external amp on top, but the A6A is currently $2,500 compared to these two higher powered AVRs that are currently cheaper.

Check out the listing on Slickdeals for the Yamaha A8A.

 

[Tipsy]

Put message in wrong spot (I think). Slick deals has a listing for the Yamaha A8A well within the price range.

 

[NMG]

I’d suggest separates if you’re really wanting more power. I’m not sure if any of the higher end AVRs are going to be that different from each other, power wise, in real world conditions. They should all be able to drive a normal sized system in a normal sized room plenty loud.

If you’re getting into bigger rooms, more demanding speakers or just want to have more power (I get it, it’s cool!) go for a separate power amp IMHO.

 

[christo976]

I came across this discussion as I’m also interested in the Onkyo RZ70 and the Denon X4800H.

To start, I looked into the pricing of various models:

• Denon X4800H: 1,560 CHF
• Marantz Cinema 40: 1,950 CHF
• Yamaha A6A: 2,150 CHF
• Arcam AVR11: 2,400 CHF
• Onkyo RZ70: 2,590 CHF
• Anthem MRX 540: 2,700 CHF
• Yamaha A8A: 3,000 CHF
• Denon X6800H: 3,500 CHF
• Arcam AVR21: 3,600 CHF
• Anthem MRX 740: 4,200 CHF
• Marantz Cinema 30: 4,350 CHF
• Arcam AVR31: 4,500 CHF
• Anthem MRX 1140: 5,700 CHF

Since I’m based in Switzerland, these prices are in Swiss francs, but they’re fairly comparable to USD or EUR.

It’s surprising to see that moving from the Denon X4800H to the X6800H nearly doubles the price.

When choosing an amplifier, we typically consider price, number of channels, and power output. But it’s often challenging to find a dealer who has several models available to listen to under identical conditions.

For instance, looking at the Denon X4800H and the X6800H, aside from differences in power and channel count, are we getting better sound quality due to an improved DAC or higher-quality components?

Denon is known for having a more dynamic sound than Marantz. Similarly, Onkyo tends to sound more dynamic than Pioneer. But how do Denon and Onkyo compare to each other?

 

[Golfx]

I came across this discussion as I’m also interested in the Onkyo RZ70 and the Denon X4800H.

To start, I looked into the pricing of various models:

• Denon X4800H: 1,560 CHF
• Marantz Cinema 40: 1,950 CHF
• Yamaha A6A: 2,150 CHF
• Arcam AVR11: 2,400 CHF
• Onkyo RZ70: 2,590 CHF
• Anthem MRX 540: 2,700 CHF
• Yamaha A8A: 3,000 CHF
• Denon X6800H: 3,500 CHF
• Arcam AVR21: 3,600 CHF
• Anthem MRX 740: 4,200 CHF
• Marantz Cinema 30: 4,350 CHF
• Arcam AVR31: 4,500 CHF
• Anthem MRX 1140: 5,700 CHF

Since I’m based in Switzerland, these prices are in Swiss francs, but they’re fairly comparable to USD or EUR.

It’s surprising to see that moving from the Denon X4800H to the X6800H nearly doubles the price.

When choosing an amplifier, we typically consider price, number of channels, and power output. But it’s often challenging to find a dealer who has several models available to listen to under identical conditions.

For instance, looking at the Denon X4800H and the X6800H, aside from differences in power and channel count, are we getting better sound quality due to an improved DAC or higher-quality components?

Denon is known for having a more dynamic sound than Marantz. Similarly, Onkyo tends to sound more dynamic than Pioneer. But how do Denon and Onkyo compare to each other?

Hi and welcome. You will likely not hear any difference worth double the price in moving from the 4800 to the 6800. Mostly seems to offer DTX-PRO, 2 more channels and 15 more watts. Looks like the same distortion levels.
Denon tends to have fewer bugs than Onkyo, Anthem or Arcam. Denon has lower distortion than the Onkyo. I do not know what “dynamic” means to different people. It seems to be a subjective adjective used on forums rather than any measurable trait.

 

[dlaloum]

I came across this discussion as I’m also interested in the Onkyo RZ70 and the Denon X4800H.

To start, I looked into the pricing of various models:

• Denon X4800H: 1,560 CHF
• Marantz Cinema 40: 1,950 CHF
• Yamaha A6A: 2,150 CHF
• Arcam AVR11: 2,400 CHF
• Onkyo RZ70: 2,590 CHF
• Anthem MRX 540: 2,700 CHF
• Yamaha A8A: 3,000 CHF
• Denon X6800H: 3,500 CHF
• Arcam AVR21: 3,600 CHF
• Anthem MRX 740: 4,200 CHF
• Marantz Cinema 30: 4,350 CHF
• Arcam AVR31: 4,500 CHF
• Anthem MRX 1140: 5,700 CHF

Since I’m based in Switzerland, these prices are in Swiss francs, but they’re fairly comparable to USD or EUR.

It’s surprising to see that moving from the Denon X4800H to the X6800H nearly doubles the price.

When choosing an amplifier, we typically consider price, number of channels, and power output. But it’s often challenging to find a dealer who has several models available to listen to under identical conditions.

For instance, looking at the Denon X4800H and the X6800H, aside from differences in power and channel count, are we getting better sound quality due to an improved DAC or higher-quality components?

Denon is known for having a more dynamic sound than Marantz. Similarly, Onkyo tends to sound more dynamic than Pioneer. But how do Denon and Onkyo compare to each other?

The biggest difference IMO is the power supply capacity - with the larger transformer and caps, we have higher current available as well as higher power under multi channel load.

The key thing here that may make a difference is the higher current - which will allow the 6800 to handle difficult speakers more easily (ie: speakers with impedances that drop down low, like my 1.6ohm Gallo speakers).

I believe it also has minor feature differences (but cannot at the moment find the feature comparison table!, I think it was posted originally in French on the French forums) - but these would only be of import to the small minority of users that would use the specific features.

It is worthy of note, that the Onkyo RZ70/Integra DRX8.4 has a heavier duty power supply than the 6800 at a lower price.... but only support for 2 subwoofers.
So for setups that only use 2 subs, these are a better value alternative, and one where the amplifier capabilities equate to A1H in the Denon series.

 

[PENG]

I came across this discussion as I’m also interested in the Onkyo RZ70 and the Denon X4800H.

To start, I looked into the pricing of various models:

• Denon X4800H: 1,560 CHF
• Marantz Cinema 40: 1,950 CHF
• Yamaha A6A: 2,150 CHF
• Arcam AVR11: 2,400 CHF
• Onkyo RZ70: 2,590 CHF
• Anthem MRX 540: 2,700 CHF
• Yamaha A8A: 3,000 CHF
• Denon X6800H: 3,500 CHF
• Arcam AVR21: 3,600 CHF
• Anthem MRX 740: 4,200 CHF
• Marantz Cinema 30: 4,350 CHF
• Arcam AVR31: 4,500 CHF
• Anthem MRX 1140: 5,700 CHF

Since I’m based in Switzerland, these prices are in Swiss francs, but they’re fairly comparable to USD or EUR.

It’s surprising to see that moving from the Denon X4800H to the X6800H nearly doubles the price.

When choosing an amplifier, we typically consider price, number of channels, and power output. But it’s often challenging to find a dealer who has several models available to listen to under identical conditions.

For instance, looking at the Denon X4800H and the X6800H, aside from differences in power and channel count, are we getting better sound quality due to an improved DAC or higher-quality components?

Denon is known for having a more dynamic sound than Marantz. Similarly, Onkyo tends to sound more dynamic than Pioneer. But how do Denon and Onkyo compare to each other?

The best value is one that is not included in your short list, that is the X3800H. The question would be, what is it in the X4800H that is important enough for you to pay 500 CHF or more?

Adding a 3 ch power amp rated for 300 W 8 ohms, 500 W 4 ohms to the X3800H may cost about the same as the X4800H and you will be way ahead of the very powerful Onkyo AVR or the Cinema 30.

I am shock to see prices of the Anthem models that high, if you really want one, get someone to ship it to you from Canada or US and you can get the MRX-1140 for just a little more than the MRX 540's 2,500 CHF from where you are!! Obviously you are not going to do that for practical reasons such as import duties/taxes, shipping costs, different supply voltage/frequency etc.

Anthem MRX 1140-8K 15.2 Pre-Amplifier / 11 Amplifier Channel A/V Receiver with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and IMAX Enhanced | Audiolab Stereo & Video

 

[christo976]

Hi Golfx, Dialoum, and PENG.

Thanks for your responses. It’s a pleasure to read you.

The best option often seems to be choosing a lower-powered amp with great value for money and adding a power amp to it. Aside from the power, I’m surprised that there’s no improvement in sound quality (DAC, …)

As for the difference between the Denon X3800h and X4800h, maybe it’s because the X4800h is made in Japan.

I’m shocked when I see the price difference for Anthem amps between the USA and Switzerland.

 

[PENG]

Hi Golfx, Dialoum, and PENG.

Thanks for your responses. It’s a pleasure to read you.

The best option often seems to be choosing a lower-powered amp with great value for money and adding a power amp to it. Aside from the power, I’m surprised that there’s no improvement in sound quality (DAC, …)

As for the difference between the Denon X3800h and X4800h, maybe it’s because the X4800h is made in Japan.

I’m shocked when I see the price difference for Anthem amps between the USA and Switzerland.

As an Anthem AVP user, I am happy to see oversea dealers could mark them up so much but I feel like letting you know they may not be a good choice because pf the extra price premium.

X3800H, X4800H, Cinema 50, 40 won't likely sound different regardless of what their fans claimed, because the have almost identical preamp/dac/processing section, actually identical for the X3800H and X4800H. Their power amp sections are also nearly identical to truly identical. So, there is no surprises there, for those who have read the more detailed info than just the marketing info.

Edit:

Someone posted the following link that is a great one if one wants to see some/many of the block diagrams, even schematics and parts list of D+M AVRs/AVPs, there may be some of the other brands too. Unfortunately those in depth info are no longer available since model years 2020-2021 such as the X3800H, Cinema 50 and newer models, but you can see where I got my info as mentioned in post#18 came from. You don't need to be an EE designer/engineer if you don't mind spending more time just comparing the block diagrams between models I mentioned, such as AVC or AVR-X4700H vs SR7015 and will see that their amp sections are rally identical or say 99% in case there are very minor details omitted, and that the preamp/dac/processors also appeared to be identical except of course the HDAMs vs no HDAMs.

I am not sure if the info made publicly available from this link will last, as manufacturers may not like the public to know so much details of their products except for their authorized service centers. Or they might not care before they some of them used to be available for less than $20, I bought a couple before.

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