Audyssey MultiEQ XT

[Mike Up]

Okay, wasted another hour running this MultiEQ XT setup once again.

Sounds just horrid! Harsh, bright, thin, no bass, sound! Flat sounds even worse. Bass was set at -12db again, just like it did on my AVR-2312ci. I did readjust the subwoofer to the same level compared to the mains, as my manual setup. The EQ settings were all messed up, taking away midrange vocals and jacking up treble. No way can I listen to this garbage, sounds terrible. Turned off Audyssey and now my natural sounding system is back. My Elac bookshelf speakers have a ton more bass when played by themselves fullrange over Audyssey with my SVS Subwoofer. Ridiculous how bad this Audyssey destroys the sound.

BTW, all 6 mic locations were further than the 20" recommended from the wall, and locations used are what Audyssey recommends within 2' of listening position. The last 2 positions were not used as they are behind the listening position and would not fit within the distance limits.

 

[PENG]

Not much to elaborate on. You just follow the on-screen instructions and setup the mic pointing straight up on a tripod. Set the mic at ear level, at the listening position, and at least 20" from the rear wall as instructed, and follow the instructions.

There has got to but something else though, as many users have much better results. I don't know if it is something specific about your room acoustics, speaker characteristics, or something else but the way you described the overall results just seem out of the ordinary.

Take a look of many REW graphs posted by Audioholics and you will see a good variety of results others were able to achieve. None perfect for sure, but much better than the "uncorrected" response in their rooms/setups.

If you haven't given up, I would love to take a look of your Ady file and see what I can do with the freeware Ratbuddyssy. To do that I would need REW files for your measured response, for at least the MMP.

The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

As HD pointed out, you can follow OCA's system and get post calibration tweaked results, or follow mine, that will be much more time consuming, but can expect near flat response for the range 20-130 Hz or to 200 Hz, and then you can easily put a bass tilt to simulate the popular so called Harman curve. As to the harsh sound effects you seem to be complaining, why not just set the corrected range to say 500 Hz, then Audyssey will leave it alone for you.

OCA's popular system to tweak Audyssey results with REW and his script:
The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Page 27 | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

My own simple in theory, but time consuming to do system:
The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

People do get very different results, that would range from really bad to really good; and I believe while there are many reasons including in some cased the users might have misunderstood the instructions, and/or how those RC work. That said, if one is willing to spend time on it, one can invariably getting better results than not using room correction.

You obviously have spent enough time on this and know a lot about it already, so I hope you will not give up making it work for you.

By the way, you said "so I only used one listening position, testing it 5 times for overall accuracy. " Did you mean leaving the mic in that same one position for all 5 measurements in that one calibration? If so, I would suggest you do it again, and this time follow the exact instructions for the mic positions as stated in Audyssey, and/or Denon/Marantz owner's manuals.

 

[Mike Up]

There has got to but something else though, as many users have much better results. I don't know if it is something specific about your room acoustics, speaker characteristics, or something else but the way you described the overall results just seem out of the ordinary.

Take a look of many REW graphs posted by Audioholics and you will see a good variety of results others were able to achieve. None perfect for sure, but much better than the "uncorrected" response in their rooms/setups.

If you haven't given up, I would love to take a look of your Ady file and see what I can do with the freeware Ratbuddyssy. To do that I would need REW files for your measured response, for at least the MMP.

The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

As HD pointed out, you can follow OCA's system and get post calibration tweaked results, or follow mine, that will be much more time consuming, but can expect near flat response for the range 20-130 Hz or to 200 Hz, and then you can easily put a bass tilt to simulate the popular so called Harman curve. As to the harsh sound effects you seem to be complaining, why not just set the corrected range to say 500 Hz, then Audyssey will leave it alone for you.

OCA's popular system to tweak Audyssey results with REW and his script:
The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Page 27 | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

My own simple in theory, but time consuming to do system:
The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

People do get very different results, that would range from really bad to really good; and I believe while there are many reasons including in some cased the users might have misunderstood the instructions, and/or how those RC work. That said, if one is willing to spend time on it, one can invariably getting better results than not using room correction.

You obviously have spent enough time on this and know a lot about it already, so I hope you will not give up making it work for you.

By the way, you said "so I only used one listening position, testing it 5 times for overall accuracy. " Did you mean leaving the mic in that same one position for all 5 measurements in that one calibration? If so, I would suggest you do it again, and this time follow the exact instructions for the mic positions as stated in Audyssey, and/or Denon/Marantz owner's manuals.

I tried everything with mic positions. I tried one listening position previously as a last try. I've done this 3 times now with the AVR-X2800H and twice with the AVR-2312ci.

The last time with the AVR-X2800H, I followed Audyssey instructions to a T but couldn't fit the last 2 mic positions behind the couch within the distance limitations. That's the 6 mic positions as instructed by Audyssey, 2 side by side, the main listening position, then the 3 in front of them, just as Audyssey instructs. Sound quality was no better being horrendous. Distances, and even crossovers were correct this time, as well as levels except for the extremely inaccurate subwoofer level. So the problems are mainly that it can't work with subwoofers for anything and it has inaccurate EQ settings.

I'm not the only one who had very bad results with this Audyssey. Another I know had very similar results with his Marantz receiver.

The rooms are square but then again, those are the rooms that need it the most so if Audyssey won't work there, it's just a useless marketing feature to help sell receivers.

Honestly, the system sounds spectacular without Audyssey so no need for it other than a toy to play with. The same in my media room, it sounds excellent without Audyssey which uses a Denon AVR-S960H.

BTW, I have tried Audyssey on 2 different receivers and 2 different sets of speakers and have found the same results so it's Audyssey for sure. Then again, 2 different sets of speakers, different receivers, and a square room shouldn't matter if it was truly a good product.

Thank you for the advice but I just don't have time to keep trying to make it work. I've tried this system multiple times with the same results so I think I'm done now.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[PENG]

I tried everything with mic positions. I tried one listening position previously as a last try. I've done this 3 times now with the AVR-X2800H and twice with the AVR-2312ci.

The last time with the AVR-X2800H, I followed Audyssey instructions to a T but couldn't fit the last 2 mic positions behind the couch within the distance limitations. That's the 6 mic positions as instructed by Audyssey, 2 side by side, the main listening position, then the 3 in front of them, just as Audyssey instructs. Sound quality was no better being horrendous. Distances, and even crossovers were correct this time, as well as levels except for the extremely inaccurate subwoofer level. So the problems are mainly that it can't work with subwoofers for anything and it has inaccurate EQ settings.

I'm not the only one who had very bad results with this Audyssey. Another I know had very similar results with his Marantz receiver.

The rooms are square but then again, those are the rooms that need it the most so if Audyssey won't work there, it's just a useless marketing feature to help sell receivers.

Honestly, the system sounds spectacular without Audyssey so no need for it other than a toy to play with. The same in my media room, it sounds excellent without Audyssey which uses a Denon AVR-S960H.

BTW, I have tried Audyssey on 2 different receivers and 2 different sets of speakers and have found the same results so it's Audyssey for sure. Then again, 2 different sets of speakers, different receivers, and a square room shouldn't matter if it was truly a good product.

Thank you for the advice but I just don't have time to keep trying to make it work. I've tried this system multiple times with the same results so I think I'm done now.

Thanks for your comments.

Understood, but it really is weird. Yes, many have bad results, but far too may have reasonable to very satisfying results. There are always reasons, but in you case I cannot think of any other than what I have already mentioned. The room would have been a key factor but then if it sounds great to you without Audyssey used then the room can't be bad right? So, I don't know, maybe it is just a people's subjective (ears/brains perception) vs measured results.., and I am of the latter, who trust only specs and measurements, as subjective measurements mean little, as confirmed in studies, and what the PhDs like Dr. Olive, Toole said/explained.. Anyway, if it sounds great to you without using it, then it is actually great, I wish that happens to me lol..

 

[Mike Up]

Understood, but it really is weird. Yes, many have bad results, but far too may have reasonable to very satisfying results. There are always reasons, but in you case I cannot think of any other than what I have already mentioned. The room would have been a key factor but then if it sounds great to you without Audyssey used then the room can't be bad right? So, I don't know, maybe it is just a people's subjective (ears/brains perception) vs measured results.., and I am of the latter, who trust only specs and measurements, as subjective measurements mean little, as confirmed in studies, and what the PhDs like Dr. Olive, Toole said/explained.. Anyway, if it sounds great to you without using it, then it is actually great, I wish that happens to me lol..

I'll give an example, I have/had several pairs of speakers to compare against one another. On Chris Isaak's Song Two Hearts, the acoustic guitar sounds real on several different pairs of my speakers I have. Other speaker pairs I had did not sound natural or realistic.

Now when I use Audyssey, it makes that song's acoustic guitar sound unnatural and unrealistic. So I just gave up my speakers good natural sound characteristic to be changed and used by Audyssey for Home Theater. Sometimes I believe bias and trust in a product, can make it appear to sound 'better'.

I'm all about specs and tests as I do them myself a lot in my work life. I also know that results can be skewed quite easily by numerous variables, yet appear to be within spec or tolerance.

 

[Matt34]

I never did care for XT. I get decent results with XT32 with a single sub, with OCA A1 EVO and dual subs, it's the best I've got my room to sound.

Here's a good discussion on the differences of how XT and XT32 differ in their ability to correct your room acoustics I found interesting.

Difference between Audyssey Multeq VS Multeq XT Vs Multeq XT32

Are the three a lot different?(perceptible difference) Description says they differ by their filter resolution but I want to know whether it actually means something.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Mike Up]

I never did care for XT. I get decent results with XT32 with a single sub, with OCA A1 EVO and dual subs, it's the best I've got my room to sound.

Here's a good discussion on the differences of how XT and XT32 differ in their ability to correct your room acoustics I found interesting.

Difference between Audyssey Multeq VS Multeq XT Vs Multeq XT32

Are the three a lot different?(perceptible difference) Description says they differ by their filter resolution but I want to know whether it actually means something.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yeh, seems the results they talk about are the same poor results I am hearing in my system. A big PASS on Audyssey from now on.

 

[Trell]

Yeh, seems the results they talk about are the same poor results I am hearing in my system. A big PASS on Audyssey from now on.

At least for your XT version of Audyssey.

Worth mentioning that while disabling Audyssey you can still use the levels and distance set during calibration.

 

[Mike Up]

At least for your XT version of Audyssey.

Worth mentioning that while disabling Audyssey you can still use the levels and distance set during calibration.

Yes, except the subwoofer output which was off by -7 db or more. Both my handheld sound level meters allowed the correct subwoofer level to be used.

 

[Trell]

Yes, except the subwoofer output which was off by -7 db or more. Both my handheld sound level meters allowed the correct subwoofer level to be used.

From post above the subwoofer trim was set to -12 and that is the minimum trim Audyssey set, so you must the level on your so that it’s higher than -12. Otherwise you don’t if the trim should be lower than -12.

 

[PENG]

I'll give an example, I have/had several pairs of speakers to compare against one another. On Chris Isaak's Song Two Hearts, the acoustic guitar sounds real on several different pairs of my speakers I have. Other speaker pairs I had did not sound natural or realistic.

Now when I use Audyssey, it makes that song's acoustic guitar sound unnatural and unrealistic. So I just gave up my speakers good natural sound characteristic to be changed and used by Audyssey for Home Theater. Sometimes I believe bias and trust in a product, can make it appear to sound 'better'.

I'm all about specs and tests as I do them myself a lot in my work life. I also know that results can be skewed quite easily by numerous variables, yet appear to be within spec or tolerance.

Just one thing I should mention, that is, "correcting/equalizing" frequencies above the so called transition frequencies in a specific room may in fact do something that you may not like. Dr. Toole and other experts have explained the reasons, though often enough, people would post something about that and unintentionally propagate interpretation that may not reflect 100% what Dr. Toole has actually said, so I am not going to do that myself and in the past, would either provide links or quote him so others can do their won interpretation.

Basically, it is generally accepted by the likes of Dr. Toole, that room correction can be used to do some good to the bass range but above a few hundred hz, it may not work well, but it might.

Here's one I linked/quoted before:
History of Multi-Sub & Sound Field Management (SFM) for Small Room Acoustics

In the conclusion of the article:

Conclusion

Whatever solution(s) you choose, it is likely that some bass equalization will improve things. Just don't automatically extend the equalization above a few hundred Hz, because that is where the loudspeaker itself takes over and if you have good loudspeakers you might risk making them worse.

About my point of interpretation, note that for the higher frequencies, he used the word "might".

Since your AVR is not compatible with the MultEQ Editor app, you don't have the choice to limit the range for "correction", but the newer models do.

 

[PENG]

A big PASS on Audyssey from now on.

If you do that, you might miss out on the potential benefits of Audyssey XT32/SubEQHT's on improving the 20-200 Hz (or a bit higher) range, as I mentioned in my last post. As usual, it is not a good idea to generalize.. I understand the issue you have now, so my comments refer to the "from now on" part only.