Bad day to be a terrorist

[GO-NAD!]

While there is much media attention on people claiming "Israel is committing genocide in Gaza [fixed your obvious typo ]". I don't believe that sentiment is in any way

Muchas gracias.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Right, but how can someone have a problem with only the last year? Shouldn't we have a problem with most of history?

I was under the impression that this thread was revolving around what happened over the past few months, which is a big enough can of worms. I mean, we could go back to how Hamas is the evil spawn of the Israeli government - especially so since Netanyahu came into office. We could then discuss the law of unintended consequences.
Israeli support for Hamas - Wikipedia

So many tangents...

 

[Trell]

The people of Israel were tormented and fighting was common in the Middle East before Islam- since that time, peace has been impossible. Look at who is doing what, in almost any part of the world and you'll see that it's the same problem.

Chalking a couple of thousand of years of Jewish persecution to "Muslims fighting for revenge" is ignoring most of history, including fairly recent one like the Holocaust or Russian Pogroms. Then there are the bloody Christians under the malign influence of the Catholic Church hating Jews with more than just a passion, historically speaking.

A tragedy is that the Palestinians where expelled/driven out from Israel in 1948, but in the same time period the same happened to millions of people in Europe. The difference is that in Europe the refugees where integrated, given citizenships and otherwise full rights, and there were not any wide-spread demand to return to their old lands. This in contrast to Arab countries that generally denied Palestinian refugees citizenship or later rescinded it. This left the Palestinian refugees without access to many essential things like health care, education, property and so forth. At the same time the Arab states demanded that the Palestinians should be able to return to their land. And the rest is history.

The Arab states have greatly contributed to and encouraged the awful conflict between the Israeli and Palestinians, and they still do. They should be held accountable as well.

 

[ryanosaur]

Today: Israeli airstrikes against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon.

 

[ryanosaur]

Chalking a couple of thousand of years of Jewish persecution to "Muslims fighting for revenge" is ignoring most of history, including fairly recent one like the Holocaust or Russian Pogroms. Then there are the bloody Christians under the malign influence of the Catholic Church hating Jews with more than just a passion, historically speaking.

A tragedy is that the Palestinians where expelled/driven out from Israel in 1948, but in the same time period the same happened to millions of people in Europe. The difference is that in Europe the refugees where integrated, given citizenships and otherwise full rights, and there were not any wide-spread demand to return to their old lands. This in contrast to Arab countries that generally denied Palestinian refugees citizenship or later rescinded it. This left the Palestinian refugees without access to many essential things like health care, education, property and so forth. At the same time the Arab states demanded that the Palestinians should be able to return to their land. And the rest is history.

The Arab states have greatly contributed to and encouraged the awful conflict between the Israeli and Palestinians, and they still do. They should be held accountable as well.

In US schools, the history of the Middle East is largely glossed over. To say I've dabbled a little is like saying a flea jumped on a leaf and was lost at sea somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

To us, the message is largely that Christianity is good and "we" can do no wrong. We certainly didn't cover US "interference" in Iran, for example, much less what happened to the Jewish people after the Holocaust. "We won WWII: Party on!"

As you well point out, there is so much more complexity to everything going on over there: it isn't just about what happened in the last 70 some-odd years, either.

This is way above my pay grade.

 

[ryanosaur]

In other news...

New evidence reveals Netanyahu's relentless efforts to block hostage deal, report shows — Haaretz

'Torpedo the Deal': Israel's Channel 12 News exclusive report features new documents and previously unheard conversations showing Netanyahu's efforts to sabotage any hostage deal

apple.news

Haaretz is considered highly factual and credible while being a left-leaning paper... either way its not surprising to see this.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

This is way above my pay grade.

Let's promote you to the right pay grade then.

Problem solved.

 

[mtrycrafts]

In other news...

New evidence reveals Netanyahu's relentless efforts to block hostage deal, report shows — Haaretz

'Torpedo the Deal': Israel's Channel 12 News exclusive report features new documents and previously unheard conversations showing Netanyahu's efforts to sabotage any hostage deal

apple.news

Haaretz is considered highly factual and credible while being a left-leaning paper... either way its not surprising to see this.

Doesn't he have an incentive to prolong being in power to escape possible jail? Does Trump come to mind?

 

[Trell]

In other news...

New evidence reveals Netanyahu's relentless efforts to block hostage deal, report shows — Haaretz

'Torpedo the Deal': Israel's Channel 12 News exclusive report features new documents and previously unheard conversations showing Netanyahu's efforts to sabotage any hostage deal

apple.news

Haaretz is considered highly factual and credible while being a left-leaning paper... either way its not surprising to see this.

I can't access your link as it goes trough Apple. An alternative is to post a direct link to the article as I can then access it, and you should have access to the link.

 

[Trell]

In US schools, the history of the Middle East is largely glossed over. To say I've dabbled a little is like saying a flea jumped on a leaf and was lost at sea somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

To us, the message is largely that Christianity is good and "we" can do no wrong. We certainly didn't cover US "interference" in Iran, for example, much less what happened to the Jewish people after the Holocaust. "We won WWII: Party on!"

As you well point out, there is so much more complexity to everything going on over there: it isn't just about what happened in the last 70 some-odd years, either.

This is way above my pay grade.

It's much more complicated than what I wrote above and I know very little about it. While I wrote Europe in my post it was mostly referring to refuges to West Europe (from East Europe, that is, behind the Iron Curtain of Russian oppression) or internally in West Europe.

 

[ryanosaur]

Let's promote you to the right pay grade then.

Problem solved.

I don’t think I want that promotion, thanks.

 

[ryanosaur]

I can't access your link as it goes trough Apple. An alternative is to post a direct link to the article as I can then access it, and you should have access to the link.

View attachment 69573

New evidence reveals Netanyahu's relentless efforts to block hostage deal, report shows

***

www.haaretz.com

Looks like it may be behind a paywall, or at least have to register with them.

 

[Trell]

New evidence reveals Netanyahu's relentless efforts to block hostage deal, report shows

***

www.haaretz.com

Looks like it may be behind a paywall, or at least have to register with them.

Yeah, it's behind a paywall but the following article appears to deal with the same from what I can read in the first few lines of your article:

Report: Nov. truce collapsed because Hamas falsely claimed women set for release were dead

Revelation comes in Channel 12 report that claims Netanyahu keeps 'torpedoing' 2nd hostage deal for political reasons; PM's office says 'false claims... echo Hamas propaganda'

www.timesofisrael.com

>>>Israeli television on Wednesday reported that November’s hostage-truce deal collapsed after a week because Hamas — instead of the 10 living hostages it was supposed to release on the eighth day of the deal — offered to return seven bodies and three living captives, who were two men and one woman. In fact, the report quoted a senior Israeli security source saying, Israel knew that the women among the seven purportedly dead hostages were alive and assessed that Hamas would immediately kill them if Israel accepted the changed terms.

The report was included in a lengthy story on Channel 12 that alleged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has consistently acted since December to “torpedo” a further possible hostage deal with Hamas for political reasons — a claim that was immediately and forcefully denied by the premier’s office.

In its report, Channel 12 news blamed Hamas, not Netanyahu, for the collapse of the seven-day ceasefire deal that enabled the release of 81 Israeli hostages and 24 foreign nationals in late November.

It specified that among the seven hostages who Hamas claimed were dead was Noa Argamani, who was rescued by the IDF along with three other living hostages in June. And it quoted the senior security official stressing that if Israel had accepted Hamas’s changed offer, the terror group would have simply shot the living female hostages it was claiming were dead.

“In the hours before [that day’s scheduled set of releases], Hamas announced via the mediators that the women who were supposed to be freed were dead,” Channel 12 quoted the senior Israeli security source saying.

“But we knew for certain that they were alive. Hamas said that Noa Argamani was dead, but not only her, and that others could not be located. And that was despite the fact that we had agreed in advance on the whole list of names [of living hostages to be freed].” ...
<<<

 

[TLS Guy]

It looks as if this was a prelude to a much larger operation, as I suspected.

Today the Israelis sent low flying fighters making sonic booms during the Hezbollah leader's address while some funerals were taking place. They also bombed at least one target in Beirut. They have hit multiple targets in southern Lebanon. So, it does look as if this is a softening up for an incursion into Southern Lebanon at the very least.

This is a dangerous situation given the the chance of a wider regional conflict is now a very high risk. All this will depend on the stance Iran takes, who are the suppliers and backers of Hezbollah and the Houthis.
This is all with the backdrop of the Russian Ukrainian War. I have to say I have grave concerns about the trajectory.

Lebanon is a tragedy. It is, or was, a beautiful country. Muslims and Christians lived side by side for centuries, until the civil war of 1975 to 1990. The Christians pretty much left. Beirut was a beautiful city, but due to that war and the explosion of a large warehouse full of ammonium nitrate in a warehouse in the port of Beirut in 2020, it is a far cry from what it was.

I just don't like the feel of things right now.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don’t think I want that promotion, thanks.

Lots more pay and benefits.

 

[jinjuku]

So who benefits? Of course the Israelis.

Turkey hates Hezbollah with a passion...

 

[jinjuku]

I saw an article indicating that many Palestinians are now questioning the relationship with Hamas.

HAMAS was duly elected. After the elections HAMAS rounded up what leaders they could from their main rival, FATAH, tied ropes around their necks and then tied the other end to truck bumpers. You can fill in the blanks.

HAMAS splinted off from the Islamic Brotherhood because the IB was perceived as 'not brutal enough'.

 

[jinjuku]

And what happens if you win? Are you any better than they ever were?

What the truck happens if you lose?

 

[TLS Guy]

HAMAS was duly elected. After the elections HAMAS rounded up what leaders they could from their main rival, FATAH, tied ropes around their necks and then tied the other end to truck bumpers. You can fill in the blanks.

HAMAS splinted off from the Islamic Brotherhood because the IB was perceived as 'not brutal enough'.

Hitler was elected once, like nearly all dictators.

 

[ryanosaur]

What the truck happens if you lose?

Then you fcukin' lose. But winning by becoming your enemy and committing crimes against humanity? Is that your solution?
C'mon, Jin, I thought you were smarter than that.

If you read what I wrote in this thread then you know I am fully against the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah, that I agree that Israel has the absolute right to defend themselves.

The only thing I don't agree with are the borderline criminal actions of the hawks calling the shots in Israel. I'm not impressed by Netanyahu and his ultra right coalition.

If I'm dumb for that, I'll wear your box as proudly as I do the ones I got for calling Racist Dipsh!ts out for being Racist.