Oath Keepers founder guilty of seditious conspiracy for January 6 involvement

[Swerd]

SoRelle was reportedly romantically involved with Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes

That alone would be enough to suspect that she might be 'mentally incompetent'.

In earlier, less PC times, I remember a friend who, upon seeing Stewart Rhodes, would say, 'How many bottles of Jack Daniels did she have to drink before wanting that?'

 

[Trell]

That alone would be enough to suspect that she might be 'mentally incompetent'.

In earlier, less PC times, I remember a friend who, upon seeing Stewart Rhodes, would say, 'How many bottles of Jack Daniels did she have to drink before wanting that?'
View attachment 62409

It only means that she can't stand trial just now due to current mental illness and I've no opinion on the diagnosis. In Sweden that implies that you can stay a heck of a lot longer incarcerated than any prison term....

 

[mtrycrafts]

That alone would be enough to suspect that she might be 'mentally incompetent'.

In earlier, less PC times, I remember a friend who, upon seeing Stewart Rhodes, would say, 'How many bottles of Jack Daniels did she have to drink before wanting that?'
View attachment 62409

Similar to women who fall for inmates.

 

[Mr._Clark]

That alone would be enough to suspect that she might be 'mentally incompetent'.

In earlier, less PC times, I remember a friend who, upon seeing Stewart Rhodes, would say, 'How many bottles of Jack Daniels did she have to drink before wanting that?'

Nah, I'm sure she's a very stable genius.

Crazy Donny is starting to look a little frazzled these days. I suspect that he will eventually go down screaming like a lunatic.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Similar to women who fall for inmates.

Charles Manson. Nice tastes.

 

[highfigh]

The notion that one can unilaterally declare something unconstitutional reminds me of the sovereign citizen movement.

>>>So-called sovereign citizens believe they are immune from government rules and in some cases - including recently in Australia and the US - have violently confronted police.<<<

What is the 'sovereign citizen' movement?

Anti-government activists who believe they are immune from the law are a worldwide threat, experts say.

www.bbc.com

If they want to fight with the police, they get what they get and if that means an old style a$$ kicking, so be it.

Reminds me of some who ask why they're being arrested and when someone tells them that what they did is against the law, they say, as if it freaking matters, "It ain't MY law!".

 

[highfigh]

Nah, I'm sure she's a very stable genius.

Crazy Donny is starting to look a little frazzled these days. I suspect that he will eventually go down screaming like a lunatic.

It's not just the Jack, it's the pills.

 

[Swerd]

Crazy Donny is starting to look a little frazzled these days. I suspect that he will eventually go down screaming like a lunatic.

Crazy Donny has been screaming like a lunatic for some time now.

I'm still waiting for the part when he actually "goes down".

 

[Mr._Clark]

This is somewhat curious. Two Oath Keepers agreed to a bench trial (i.e. the judge will determine both the law and the facts). The judge (Mehta) does not strike me as being especially sympathetic to the other January 6 defendants in prior cases he's presided over. If anything, he might lean slightly towards the "Hang them high" end of the spectrum.

Bench trial set for two Oath Keepers, an ex-actor and ex-Marine

An ex-Broadway actor and an ex-Marine — both members of the right-wing militia Oath Keepers — will face trial for their alleged roles in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.&nbsp…

thehill.com

Overall, according to Pew Research, defendants in federal court had a higher acquittal rate in bench trials vs jury trials. I'm not sure, but this might be due to defendants selecting bench trials in cases with weak evidence.

>>>Among the small share and number of federal defendants who went to trial in fiscal 2018, those who opted for a bench trial – that is, one in which the verdict is handed down by a judge – fared better than those who opted for a jury trial. Around four-in-ten defendants who faced a bench trial (38%) were acquitted, compared with just 14% of those who faced a jury trial. Even so, bench trials are far less common than jury trials in the federal system: In fiscal 2018, only 12% of defendants who went to trial had their cases decided by a judge, while 88% had their cases decided by a jury.<<<

Only 2% of federal criminal defendants went to trial in 2018, and most who did were found guilty

Trials are rare in the federal criminal justice system: Just 2% of criminal defendants went to trial in fiscal 2018. Acquittals are even rarer.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Dude#1279435]

That alone would be enough to suspect that she might be 'mentally incompetent'.

In earlier, less PC times, I remember a friend who, upon seeing Stewart Rhodes, would say, 'How many bottles of Jack Daniels did she have to drink before wanting that?'
View attachment 62409

Oh you know how girls can be. Bad boys! Bad boys!!! Bad boys!!!!!

 

[Mr._Clark]

One of the 2 defendants (Beeks) appears to believe the "sovereign citizen movement."

>>>Beeks, an ex-Broadway star who is representing himself but has access to standby counsel . . . questioned whether the court has jurisdiction over him, signaling ties to the “sovereign citizen movement” he has referenced in court documents.

Adherents to that movement believe that the U.S. government is illegitimate and use that as reasoning to evade laws, according to the Anti-Defamation League.<<<

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4089274-judge-to-decide-fate-of-two-oath-keepers-who-breached-capitol-on-jan-6/

The sovereign citizen movement is completely nutty because no one ever wins in court with these arguments. It's been going on for years and years and the results are always the same. But people continue to believe it for some reason. see, e.g. United States v. Studley, 783 F.2d 934 n.3 (9th Cir. 1986).

"Studley contends that she is not a "taxpayer" because she is an absolute, freeborn and natural individual. This argument is frivolous. . . . [T]his argument has been consistently and thoroughly rejected by every branch of the government for decades. Indeed advancement of such utterly meritless arguments is now the basis for serious sanctions imposed on civil litigants who raise them."

United States v. Studley, 783 F.2d 934 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read United States v. Studley, 783 F.2d 934, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

This is not a harmless belief. People who fall for this often suffer severe consequences.

 

[lovinthehd]

One of the 2 defendants (Beeks) appears to believe the "sovereign citizen movement."

>>>Beeks, an ex-Broadway star who is representing himself but has access to standby counsel . . . questioned whether the court has jurisdiction over him, signaling ties to the “sovereign citizen movement” he has referenced in court documents.

Adherents to that movement believe that the U.S. government is illegitimate and use that as reasoning to evade laws, according to the Anti-Defamation League.<<<

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4089274-judge-to-decide-fate-of-two-oath-keepers-who-breached-capitol-on-jan-6/

The sovereign citizen movement is completely nutty because no one ever wins in court with these arguments. It's been going on for years and years and the results are always the same. But people continue to believe it for some reason. see, e.g. United States v. Studley, 783 F.2d 934 n.3 (9th Cir. 1986).

"Studley contends that she is not a "taxpayer" because she is an absolute, freeborn and natural individual. This argument is frivolous. . . . [T]his argument has been consistently and thoroughly rejected by every branch of the government for decades. Indeed advancement of such utterly meritless arguments is now the basis for serious sanctions imposed on civil litigants who raise them."

United States v. Studley, 783 F.2d 934 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read United States v. Studley, 783 F.2d 934, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

This is not a harmless belief. People who fall for this often suffer severe consequences.

Been seeing some of the "sov cit" police videos on what happens with these numbnuts....hadn't heard much about it until recently.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Been seeing some of the "sov cit" police videos on what happens with these numbnuts....hadn't heard much about it until recently.

This nonsense has been going on for several years now. The "sovereign citizens" movement has spread up here, as well.
Rowdy court behaviour part of 'cluster' of sovereign citizen activity | CBC News
Canada's sovereign citizen movement growing, officials warn | CTV News

 

[Mr._Clark]

Interesting. Beeks was acquitted but Crowl was convicted of both charges. I doubt that Beeks would have been acquitted if he had continued to represent himself.

>>>James Beeks, an ex-actor who entered the Capitol with members of the Oath Keepers on Jan. 6, 2021, was on Wednesday acquitted of all charges against him in connection with the Capitol attack. . . . Beeks attorney Greg Hunter told The Hill Tuesday that stipulated trials are “extremely rare,” but that defense counsel made the decision in part based on Mehta’s familiarity with the case material. Mehta has overseen all the high-profile Oath Keeper trials in connection with the riot.

Beeks had been representing himself in the proceedings, but minutes before closing remarks were set to begin, he waived that right and allowed Hunter to take over.<<<

‘Jesus Christ Superstar’ actor affiliated with Oath Keepers acquitted of Jan. 6 charges

James Beeks, an ex-actor who entered the Capitol with members of the Oath Keepers Jan. 6, 2021, was acquitted Wednesday of all charges against him in connection with the Capitol attack. Beeks and h…

thehill.com

 

[Dude#1279435]

It appears the mysterious Ray Epps will get in the neighborhood of six months in prison. I never liked the commission's softball questions. He was the one a day earlier telling people they need to go "in" the capitol. He was at the barricade gate too. I also remember people on some scaffolding with microphones directing people where to go. I'm guessing that was the Oath Keepers and/or Proud Boys.

MSN

www.msn.com

Prosecutors now say Epps not only trespassed but was part of violence against police, even if he did not personally touch any officers. Epps was at the front of the mob that breached the first barricades on the Capitol grounds, pushed police back toward the building and shoved a giant “Trump” sign into a line of officers. Epps went on to brag to his nephew that he “orchestrated” the event by encouraging people to go to the Capitol.

While acknowledging Epps “made at least five attempts to deescalate conflicts between other rioters and police officers,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael M. Gordon wrote in his sentencing memo that Epps also “engaged in collective aggressive conduct” and helped “clear … a path that inspired others to engage in dangerous and lawless behavior.”

Epps’s wife said she asked her husband to go to D.C. for the Jan. 6 rally because their son was committed to going and she did not want him to be there alone.

“We were loyal Fox News viewers,” she wrote, and “were concerned with the violence Fox News was sharing on the news taking place in various states with ‘Antifa’ and ‘Black Lives Matter’.”

The night before the riot, Epps and his son joined a crowd of Trump supporters at D.C.’s Black Lives Matter Plaza, some of whom were advocating violence against counter protesters.

“That’s not what it’s about,” Epps said in an exchange caught on video. “Tomorrow, we need to go into the Capitol. Into the Capitol.” He added, “Peacefully.” Ungvarsky said Epps was under the mistaken impression that the building would be open to visitors. Listeners to Epps that night immediately began chanting, “Fed! Fed!” because they suspected he was a government instigator, the video shows.

That video was later used to suggest Epps was a government plant there to entrap Trump supporters. So was video of Epps from the next day just before the breach of the first barricades. Epps says something to Ryan Samsel, who proceeds to push a barricade and knock down a police officer. Both men have said Epps told Samsel not to attack police.

Gordon described Epps’s case as “unique” because he has “received significant and dangerous attention.” Gordon said Epps was charged with a misdemeanor and not a felony because of his cooperation, remorse and efforts to de-escalate violence.

“I am sincerely sorry for going to Washington D.C. and saying some absurd things while there,” Epps wrote to the court. “The blame of the insurrection is not on the FBI. It is on those who were at the Capitol and engaged in insurrectionist activities and those who misled Americans like myself, into believing the election had been stolen.”

 

[Mr._Clark]

An Oath Keepers attorney was recently deemed mentally incompetent to stand trial. This is of course not the same thing as a finding that she's innocent by reason of insanity (see 2nd link below: "So long as a defendant is deemed incompetent, the insanity defense becomes moot as the defendant cannot stand trial").

The news reports seem to suggest that this is probably temporary because she is likely to regain competency as a result of treatment, but it's hard to predict.

>>>The attorney for the right-wing anti-government Oath Keepers group currently facing conspiracy and obstruction charges in the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol has been deemed mentally incompetent to stand trial. . . .

SoRelle took over leadership of the Oath Keepers in January 2022 after Rhodes’ arrest. In January 2021, she was one of the lawyers behind a pro-Trump election fraud lawsuit that memorably drew from “The Lord of the Rings,” comparing Trump to the “true king” of the fictional kingdom of Gondor and Biden, his administration, and lawmakers as “a group of individuals calling themselves the President, Vice President and Congress who have no rightful claim to govern the American People.”

SoRelle was reportedly romantically involved with Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes, who was convicted in November of seditious conspiracy and other felonies relating to Jan. 6 and sentenced in May to nearly two decades behind bars. Her relationship with Rhodes was revealed in sharp relief during Rhodes’ trial in October 2022 when some of the one-time couple’s explicit text messages that indicated a romantic entanglement between attorney and client were shown to jurors.<<<

Oath Keepers lawyer who made infamous 'Lord of the Rings' argument in pro-Trump lawsuit deemed 'mentally incompetent' for her Jan. 6 trial

A judge found that Kellye SoRelle "is presently suffering from a mental disease or defect rendering her mentally incompetent" and was ordered to a mental hospital until she is fit for trial.

lawandcrime.com

insanity defense

www.law.cornell.edu

SoRelle was found competent to stand trial earlier this year, and she just pleaded guilty to two criminal charges and faces up to 20 years in prison:

>>>WASHINGTON (CN) — A lawyer who worked with the far-right militia group the Oath Keepers to plan their part in the attack on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, pleaded guilty to two criminal charges on Wednesday. . . . The 45-year-old faces up to 20 years in prison for the obstruction of justice charge. . . . After SoRelle initially pleaded not guilty, her case was frozen after [judge] Mehta found her mentally incompetent to stand trial in June 2023, just a month before her trial was set to begin. Her competence was restored earlier this year after a two-and-a-half-month evaluation while in Federal Bureau of Prisons custody.<<<

Oath Keeper lawyer pleads guilty to Capitol riot charges

Kellye SoRelle, who was dating Oath Keeper leader Stewart Rhodes at the time, traveled to the Capitol and helped direct the far-right group's actions.

www.courthousenews.com

I'd be shocked if she's sentenced to anything close to 20 years, but anything is possible.

 

[Mr._Clark]

>>> . . . After SoRelle initially pleaded not guilty, her case was frozen after [judge] Mehta found her mentally incompetent to stand trial in June 2023, just a month before her trial was set to begin. Her competence was restored earlier this year after a two-and-a-half-month evaluation while in Federal Bureau of Prisons custody.<<<

Editorial comment: At first glance it might seem counterintuitive that a stint in the Federal Prison system might actually improve one's competence.

I suspect she became motivated to demonstrate competence once she realized that she was locked up indefinitely and her only way out was to regain competence and either beat the charges at trial or cut a plea deal.

A harsh sniff of reality can do wonders when it comes to restoring mental clarity.

I imagine it going something like this:

Prison Counselor: "So Ms SoRelle, what do you think about Stewart Rhodes now that you've had time to reconsider your life choices while sitting in the slammer for 6 months?"

Ms. SoRelle: "What, Rhoades? He's the craziest Mother F'er I ever met! He's a worthless lying sack of sh*t!"

Prison Counselor: "Ah, very good, I see you are making progress towards regaining your competence!"

Ms. SoRelle: "Can I have a cookie?"