New Line up of AV Receivers from JBL

[Verdinut]

Meh. Might be okay but nothing particularly attractive compared to the competition....

They however have an attractive particularity. They feature Class D amps which don't heat compared to Class AB amps which fail in a lot of AVRs.

 

[lovinthehd]

They however have an attractive particularity. They feature Class D amps which don't heat compared to Class AB amps which fail in a lot of AVRs.

Wouldn't that more depend on particular execution? Class D can fail, too.

 

[Verdinut]

Wouldn't that more depend on particular execution? Class D can fail, too.

As you know, heat is the major cause of circuit failures. Most of the listed JBL AVRs are sold out but AFAIK, there has not been info out about failure of those AVRs so far, and I presume that Harman released more than a few of those AVRs.

 

[lovinthehd]

As yo know, heat is the major cause of circuit failures. Most of the listed JBL AVRs are sold out but AFAIK, there has not been info out about failure of those AVRs so far, and I presume that Harman released more than a few of those AVRs.

I do wonder how many they've sold compared to others....I haven't seen much information about them at all, tho.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I do wonder how many they've sold compared to others....I haven't seen much information about them at all, tho.

Yeah most people don’t even know JBL AVRs exist. I know more about AVR than the average consumer, and I didn’t even know JBL AVRs existed.

Like they say - only time will tell all - if these class-D AVRs are any more or less reliable than other AVRs.

 

[dlaloum]

They however have an attractive particularity. They feature Class D amps which don't heat compared to Class AB amps which fail in a lot of AVRs.

Typically, over the last 15 to 20 years, many AVR's have had heat related failures - but they have usually been due to the HDMI and DSP boards and chipsets, not the amps.
Although most (all?) of the AVR's involved were class AB - that is neither here nor there, as the power amp sections have been well managed thermally.

The current generation, seem to be managing thermals on the processor and hdmi chips and boards a heck of a lot better!

 

[TLS Guy]

Typically, over the last 15 to 20 years, many AVR's have had heat related failures - but they have usually been due to the HDMI and DSP boards and chipsets, not the amps.
Although most (all?) of the AVR's involved were class AB - that is neither here nor there, as the power amp sections have been well managed thermally.

The current generation, seem to be managing thermals on the processor and hdmi chips and boards a heck of a lot better!

But that is the point. It is the amps that generate the heat. It is the delicate processor boards that are highly heat averse.

So that is why the receiver concept is such a terrible idea and I would NEVER consider owning one.

As I have said before Peter Walker of Quad was asked repeatedly if Quad would put a receiver in their range. He proclaimed NEVER! He was obsessed with making his products reliable. He did, and took every failed unit hard no matter how old.

If you go on eBay you will see many, many units from his tenure still working fine and commanding good prices.
His approach is the correct one. Under his tenure he never had a marketing department and like me hated the breed with a passion. As usual he was right!

All my 14 power amps in use, four preamps and two FM tuners have Quad labels from when he was at the helm. One is 58 years old. Those units are among my prized possessions. We need more of his ilk and marketers on the dole.

 

[TankTop5]

But that is the point. It is the amps that generate the heat. It is the delicate processor boards that are highly heat averse.

So that is why the receiver concept is such a terrible idea and I would NEVER consider owning one.

As I have said before Peter Walker of Quad was asked repeatedly if Quad would put a receiver in their range. He proclaimed NEVER! He was obsessed with making his products reliable. He did, and took every failed unit hard no matter how old.

If you go on eBay you will see many, many units from his tenure still working fine and commanding good prices.
His approach is the correct one. Under his tenure he never had a marketing department and like me hated the breed with a passion. As usual he was right!

All my 14 power amps in use, four preamps and two FM tuners have Quad labels from when he was at the helm. One is 58 years old. Those units are among my prized possessions. We need more of his ilk and marketers on the dole.

This is why the Marantz Model 30 makes me scratch my head. 100 wpc class D amps and a huge toroidal transformer for the pre amp, let’s take a great design and make it heavy, inefficient and really hot.

 

[lovinthehd]

But that is the point. It is the amps that generate the heat. It is the delicate processor boards that are highly heat averse.

So that is why the receiver concept is such a terrible idea and I would NEVER consider owning one.

As I have said before Peter Walker of Quad was asked repeatedly if Quad would put a receiver in their range. He proclaimed NEVER! He was obsessed with making his products reliable. He did, and took every failed unit hard no matter how old.

If you go on eBay you will see many, many units from his tenure still working fine and commanding good prices.
His approach is the correct one. Under his tenure he never had a marketing department and like me hated the breed with a passion. As usual he was right!

All my 14 power amps in use, four preamps and two FM tuners have Quad labels from when he was at the helm. One is 58 years old. Those units are among my prized possessions. We need more of his ilk and marketers on the dole.

The hdmi boards and video chips ran very warm/hot....especially on earlier models like Dialoum mentions

 

[dlaloum]

But that is the point. It is the amps that generate the heat. It is the delicate processor boards that are highly heat averse.

So that is why the receiver concept is such a terrible idea and I would NEVER consider owning one.

As I have said before Peter Walker of Quad was asked repeatedly if Quad would put a receiver in their range. He proclaimed NEVER! He was obsessed with making his products reliable. He did, and took every failed unit hard no matter how old.

If you go on eBay you will see many, many units from his tenure still working fine and commanding good prices.
His approach is the correct one. Under his tenure he never had a marketing department and like me hated the breed with a passion. As usual he was right!

All my 14 power amps in use, four preamps and two FM tuners have Quad labels from when he was at the helm. One is 58 years old. Those units are among my prized possessions. We need more of his ilk and marketers on the dole.

You know I am a big fan of Peter Walker's designs... and have no intention of letting go of my 606 &707 amps...

But - in the Onkyo SR876 and Integra DTR 70.4 (and many of their siblings and competitors) the HDMI and DSP chips used far more power at idle than the power amp circuits...

The get the power amps similar amount of power to what the HDMI&DSP used in those generations, would have required completely unrealistic loudness levels (like 50W/ch continuous into 5 or 7 channels).

At the time I used the onboard monitoring to track fan activation and power amp temperature (which the firmware provided access to) - there was no way of tracking HDMI and DSP temps.

While the power amp was idling along at 36C... the case just above the DSP and HDMI chips, was so hot that you could not touch it.

So no - in those generations (from circa 2005 to circa 2015... and perhaps a few years later depending on the brand) - under any form of semi-ordinary usage, it was the digital HDMI and DSP chips that generated most of the heat, and absolutely NOT the power amp circuits. (and yes the boards on which the chips were mounted were heat averse, and failed at a much higher rate than they should have!)

The Audio engineers designing those generations of AVR's had grown up with the long term assumption that the power amp generates the heat, and that the "preamp" / "processor" doesn't - they designed the AVR's accordingly, resulting in quite dramatic failure rates. (my guess as to root causes!)

I am very very pleased to see (and feel/measure) that the current generation does not appear to suffer from this major flaw.

 

[TLS Guy]

You know I am a big fan of Peter Walker's designs... and have no intention of letting go of my 606 &707 amps...

But - in the Onkyo SR876 and Integra DTR 70.4 (and many of their siblings and competitors) the HDMI and DSP chips used far more power at idle than the power amp circuits...

The get the power amps similar amount of power to what the HDMI&DSP used in those generations, would have required completely unrealistic loudness levels (like 50W/ch continuous into 5 or 7 channels).

At the time I used the onboard monitoring to track fan activation and power amp temperature (which the firmware provided access to) - there was no way of tracking HDMI and DSP temps.

While the power amp was idling along at 36C... the case just above the DSP and HDMI chips, was so hot that you could not touch it.

So no - in those generations (from circa 2005 to circa 2015... and perhaps a few years later depending on the brand) - under any form of semi-ordinary usage, it was the digital HDMI and DSP chips that generated most of the heat, and absolutely NOT the power amp circuits. (and yes the boards on which the chips were mounted were heat averse, and failed at a much higher rate than they should have!)

The Audio engineers designing those generations of AVR's had grown up with the long term assumption that the power amp generates the heat, and that the "preamp" / "processor" doesn't - they designed the AVR's accordingly, resulting in quite dramatic failure rates. (my guess as to root causes!)

I am very very pleased to see (and feel/measure) that the current generation does not appear to suffer from this major flaw.

I have two Marantz 7701 AVPs from 2013 in daily use, and they don't get hot. So I suspect the AVRs of that era were actually getting hot from the power amps.

I also have a Marantz 8803 from 2008 which I still have, but have not used for years, that got somewhat warm but not hot. Certainly not hot enough to cause concern.

I did not know we had another Quad owner here. The Quad 606 was produced from 1986 to 1993. I think the 707 was 1994 to 1998 . The 909 ws 1999 to 2004.

Funnily enough I just bought another 909 on eBay tonight. They don't come up often. I have nine in use, and have been looking for a spare as insurance, so I can swap one while I repair a unit if one should fail. So I now own 10 Quad 909s. Seven are in the AV room, two in our great room and one in the family room.

 

[Trell]

Wouldn't that more depend on particular execution? Class D can fail, too.

Absolutely true! On ASR there are pictures of a serious design fault of improper cooling with the heat sink not properly attached. High end performance class D.

 

[gene]

Our own Jacob Green visited JBL headquarters last week in California for the unveiling of their new AVRs and loudspeakers.

At a swanky rooftop launch party in Hollywood, JBL unveiled no fewer than 13 new products. The MA (Modern Audio) line of AV receivers comprises five all-new models, while the Stage 2 range of loudspeakers includes 6 new speakers and 2 new subs. The receivers feature a simple app-based setup with auto EQ.

Read: JBL New Stage 2 Speakers & AV Receivers

 

[TLS Guy]

Our own Jacob Green visited JBL headquarters last week in California for the unveiling of their new AVRs and loudspeakers.

At a swanky rooftop launch party in Hollywood, JBL unveiled no fewer than 13 new products. The MA (Modern Audio) line of AV receivers comprises five all-new models, while the Stage 2 range of loudspeakers includes 6 new speakers and 2 new subs. The receivers feature a simple app-based setup with auto EQ.

View attachment 68584
Read: JBL New Stage 2 Speakers & AV Receivers

I just can't believe this took so long. We are on our way back to elegant design with this.

I hope this is the first sign post on the way back to sanity.

Foisting the public off with the fraudulent technology of ghastly sound bars is at its very core blatantly dishonest.

 

[Trebdp83]

The front panel display and Apple TV like remote controller are nice. Many resist big black boxes all around their rooms. The white colored receivers and the light wood veneer and white speakers will do well with mid century modern decor that is currently very popular. Now, about those manuals...

 

[TLS Guy]

The front panel display and Apple TV like remote controller are nice. Many resist big black boxes all around their rooms. The white colored receivers and the light wood veneer and white speakers will do well with mid century modern decor that is currently very popular. Now, about those manuals...

Yes, I do see this as a fork in the road. This is the start on the way back to sanity for quality AV in the home. This will make inroads into the frightful mess our systems make of WAF and interior design. I wish them success and more will follow.

 

[M Code]

Nice lineup of JBL AV receivers...
Interesting they still call their EQ system EZ Set EQ even when it has multiple different SW applications including Dirac.. Note that 20 years back when I was doing product development for Harman/Kardon we created that title. Also interesting to note they decided to use the powerful Cirrus Logic 4 core DSP processor, another device we did some prototype development work on some years back....
Just my $0.02...

 

[Trebdp83]

With over 100,000,000 million portable speakers sold and 35% market share, JBL wants young people to grow up and into bigger JBL speakers and receivers. That won’t happen with the Harmon Kardon label.

They don’t have to reinvent the wheel here. They just have to make it shiny and easy to use for folks. Give em’ a receiver that matches their white PS5 and XBOX Series S with a remote controller very much like the Apple TV 4K and you just might attract younger buyers.

 

[M Code]

If U do the research one will find that 75% of the $$ profits for Harman International is derived from the OE mobile infotainment sales to the automotive brands, using many of their own brands. The primary objective of their consumer brand sales is to promote and support their various brand images to automotive market. Note that in recent years their most profitable consumer product categories are BT smart speakers, ear buds and headphones. 10 years ago after the passing of Dr.Harman, and corporate purchase by Samsung has revised their direction and brand marketing strategies.

Just my $0.02...

 

[Trebdp83]

Anyway, the receivers wear the JBL badge for a reason. They will get audiophile dad/grandpa approval for the class D and Dirac(certain models). Though, MA310 and MA510 will be harder sells for the price vs features.

They splashed a bit of orange here and there but not where it counts. It needed to be right on the front panel and would have popped on both the black and white units. But, folks can add their own orange badge if they really want it I guess.