Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[cpp]

Easy. A BC for handguns,.rifles, and shotguns.

Not sure where people are getting you don't need a BC for shotgun, that's not correct. All fireams period require BC which takes about 1 min in a licensed gun store. Now if the crooked gun shop owner fails to do that, that's another crime.

 

[highfigh]

Not sure where people are getting you don't need a BC for shotgun, that's not correct. All fireams period require BC which takes about 1 min in a licensed gun store. Now if the crooked gun shop owner fails to do that, that's another crime.

And shipped guns take longer, due to the FFL not being efficient (if they're licensed but not a store). Also, NICS goes down and they can't just send the new gun owner on their merry way without approval (not telling you, this is purely informational).

 

[highfigh]

Your debating the details into soup. Shooting randomly into the woods is dumb, and of course guns & alcohol have never merged.

You don't know the ones who were shooting, yet you want to impose your opinions and feeling on their activity. Do you know where this happened? If it was in a place where wild hogs are taking over, it would be justified and if you don't know how bad that situation is, look into it.

I didn't start this thread so other issues could be added to the topic- alcohol on its own is a bad enough problem and it's part of the gun violence equation, but if shooters are drunk and/or drugged, isn't that a 'people problem', too?

Why can't you admit that people cause these problems? Don't give me that "I like to see the good in people" crap, either. If you haven't noticed the decline in human behavior, you're not paying attention.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Not sure where people are getting you don't need a BC for shotgun, that's not correct. All fireams period require BC which takes about 1 min in a licensed gun store. Now if the crooked gun shop owner fails to do that, that's another crime.

He said "rifle, but not shotgun." Or the opposite. I dunno. Pretty bizarre.

 

[Dude#1279435]

You don't know the ones who were shooting, yet you want to impose your opinions and feeling on their activity. Do you know where this happened? If it was in a place where wild hogs are taking over, it would be justified and if you don't know how bad that situation is, look into it.

I didn't start this thread so other issues could be added to the topic- alcohol on its own is a bad enough problem and it's part of the gun violence equation, but if shooters are drunk and/or drugged, isn't that a 'people problem', too?

Why can't you admit that people cause these problems? Don't give me that "I like to see the good in people" crap, either. If you haven't noticed the decline in human behavior, you're not paying attention.

It was on the news. That's what the camera is for. I sure don't recall any hunting but a group of drunk inbreds shooting at nothing.

Do I trust the gun owner's judgement on FAs more, or govt? Not even close. See bump stocks LOL.

 

[highfigh]

It was on the news. That's what the camera is for. I sure don't recall any hunting but a group of drunk inbreds shooting at nothing.

Do I trust the gun owner's judgement on FAs more, or govt? Not even close. See bump stocks LOL.

Still don't have anything to back it up. Got it.

BTW- if you would read about bump stocks, the company has gone under and 500K were returned.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Still don't have anything to back it up. Got it.

BTW- if you would read about bump stocks, the company has gone under and 500K were returned.

Again 30 years ago. Of course I can't prove it.

Your defense of every aspect of guns, as if there's zero silly in the gun community, is bizarre to me. You also said bump stocks were originally made for the handicap, which sounded to me like an odd defense of them since its unlikely many would be purchased for that reason. Now it's the company went out of business. 'See, gun owners are always responsible!' Begging why we need govt oversight on say FAs. Not just because of the mentally ill, but also to regulate them from gun "enthusiasts," regardless of their intent.

 

[highfigh]

Again 30 years ago. Of course I can't prove it.

Your defense of every aspect of guns, as if there's zero silly in the gun community, is bizarre to me. You also said bump stocks were originally made for the handicap, which sounded to me like an odd defense of them since its unlikely many would be purchased for that reason. Now it's the company went out of business. 'See, gun owners are always responsible!' Begging why we need govt oversight on say FAs. Not just because of the mentally ill, but also to regulate them from gun "enthusiasts," regardless of their intent.

You stated the example of the pinheads shooting randomly as fact and now, you wrote that you can't back it up. Not a persuasive way to argue.

From the link- "Argument- a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view".

Definition of ARGUMENT

the act or process of arguing, reasoning, or discussing : argumentation; a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view; an angry quarrel or disagreement… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I'm not defending guns in the NRA, NRA!, collect/hoard as many as possible and shoot everything in sight way, I'm blaming people, not the thing. Laws are written in an attempt to get people to do what the government wants and it's clear that far too many people can't handle the level of freedom that has been bestowed on them so they, in theory, are arrested and punished. The punishment part is where I have big problems but bad parenting is a great place to start WRT changes. There's one way that has been shown to work when kids are in an environment that doesn't teach them to be good citizens and that's by removing them.

You don't believe what others post, but you don't bother to look into it- not our problem, do your own research. I posted the name of the inventor, a link to bump stocks and you still don't want to believe it.

You just don't understand that it's not every "gun enthusiasts" who is a problem. Are you even aware that people possess guns illegally? It really seems that you aren't- you just keep harping about everything BUT the problem, ignoring data that could help to get the point across to you.

Most of this would be moot if criminals would obey the laws we already have.

Blinders- take them off.

The only way this will be solved is if people stop insert their feelings when they try to get people to change their minds. Facts work much better.

 

[Dude#1279435]

You stated the example of the pinheads shooting randomly as fact and now, you wrote that you can't back it up. Not a persuasive way to argue.

From the link- "Argument- a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view".

Definition of ARGUMENT

the act or process of arguing, reasoning, or discussing : argumentation; a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view; an angry quarrel or disagreement… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I'm not defending guns in the NRA, NRA!, collect/hoard as many as possible and shoot everything in sight way, I'm blaming people, not the thing. Laws are written in an attempt to get people to do what the government wants and it's clear that far too many people can't handle the level of freedom that has been bestowed on them so they, in theory, are arrested and punished. The punishment part is where I have big problems but bad parenting is a great place to start WRT changes. There's one way that has been shown to work when kids are in an environment that doesn't teach them to be good citizens and that's by removing them.

You don't believe what others post, but you don't bother to look into it- not our problem, do your own research. I posted the name of the inventor, a link to bump stocks and you still don't want to believe it.

You just don't understand that it's not every "gun enthusiasts" who is a problem. Are you even aware that people possess guns illegally? It really seems that you aren't- you just keep harping about everything BUT the problem, ignoring data that could help to get the point across to you.

Most of this would be moot if criminals would obey the laws we already have.

Blinders- take them off.

The only way this will be solved is if people stop insert their feelings when they try to get people to change their minds. Facts work much better.

The fact is that while the mentally ill are the main problem, a smaller area of concern is gun enthusiasts, which is why there are no FAs. Because some idiot would say, It's no big deal. That's just Jimbo shooting his machine gun. A few in the gun world would justify it on the grounds that he isnt shooting it "at" someone when the problem is having it in the first. Or that the gun community could even make the correct judgement 100% on FAs. Thankfully why they're banned.

 

[cpp]

The fact is that while the mentally ill are the main problem, a smaller area of concern is gun enthusiasts, which is why there are no FAs. Because some idiot would say, It's no big deal. That's just Jimbo shooting his machine gun. A few in the gun world would justify it on the grounds that he isnt shooting it "at" someone when the problem is having it in the first. Or that the gun community could even make the correct judgement 100% on FAs. Thankfully why they're banned.

Banned where is Canada. In the US a person better has his or her act together to even get a Class III Federal Firearms License (FFL) to deal in NFA weapons, Not own. . The key it cannot be manufactured after 1986. Talk about being investigated and it can take over a year to even get the license, if you pass the investigation. .

 

[TankTop5]

Point wasn't is he of age. Point is no BC. Cash. ID. Thanks much. It's like walking out of the grocery store with milk.

“Shall not be infringed” still has meaning for a lot of American

 

[TankTop5]

The fact is that while the mentally ill are the main problem, a smaller area of concern is gun enthusiasts, which is why there are no FAs. Because some idiot would say, It's no big deal. That's just Jimbo shooting his machine gun. A few in the gun world would justify it on the grounds that he isnt shooting it "at" someone when the problem is having it in the first. Or that the gun community could even make the correct judgement 100% on FAs. Thankfully why they're banned.

Fully automated machine guns are not banned, just takes a $200 tax stamp (should be unconstitutional) but the background check is the exact same as purchasing any other firearm. Fun fact a family member of mine owns the mini gun used in the original Oredator and Terminator 2. He rents it out to Hollywood but it’s generally hanging in his living room pointed at the front door with an ammo belt draped over a China cabinet. Oddly enough you can own a fully functional tank or howitzer AND live ammunition. You should look up Dragonmans in Colorado Sorings (my backyard) where ever single bullet, grenade, rocket launcher, mine etc is fully functional and owned by a private individual.

edit add: I would post photos of some of what I own but I don’t want to be responsible for your brain aneurism and untimely demise. Needless to say my firearm collection far exceeds the monetary value of most of this forums best hifi setups. Strangely none of my firearms have ever committed a crime. Probably shouldn’t mention legal binary explosives… don’t worry I usually contact the local Sheriff so they don’t get excited but the head of SWAT does join me from time to time for kicks and giggles.

 

[Dude#1279435]

“Shall not be infringed” still has meaning for a lot of American

Shall not be infringed upon having a BC doesn't sound too good.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Fully automated machine guns are not banned, just takes a $200 tax stamp (should be unconstitutional) but the background check is the exact same as purchasing any other firearm.

Thankfully after 1986 they are not manufactured anyway.

 

[Dude#1279435]

FA= Firearms, or are you making up your own acronyms? `

Fully Automatic

 

[Dude#1279435]

Since it's mandatory for handguns and rifles, you want to add only one type of gun, which is mainly used for hunting and vermin control.

Stats- shotguns were used in 200 homicides in 2019-the link also shows the use of shotguns declining.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

ucr.fbi.gov

All firearms should have a BC. That is if you don't want the mentally ill in possession of them. % of homicide is irrelevant since I wouldn't want them in possession of a shotgun to begin with.

 

[highfigh]

The fact is that while the mentally ill are the main problem, a smaller area of concern is gun enthusiasts, which is why there are no FAs. Because some idiot would say, It's no big deal. That's just Jimbo shooting his machine gun. A few in the gun world would justify it on the grounds that he isnt shooting it "at" someone when the problem is having it in the first. Or that the gun community could even make the correct judgement 100% on FAs. Thankfully why they're banned.

I have seen reports of shootings (mass, or not) and they never mentioned mental illness. Going into a school, mall, workplace, government place or in the open and ripping off a few magazines can't be the act of someone who could be described as 'in good mental health'.

Full-auto is heavily regulated, everything else is regulated, but not to the same degree, but private sales are almost impossible to control.

As for your comment about all guns needing a background check, they do. Look for the NICS application and other info- it's all available online.

Do you actually know any gun owners? Ask them about their views, as long as they aren't on the fringe of the NRA.

 

[panteragstk]

“Shall not be infringed” still has meaning for a lot of American

So does "well regulated".

 

[cpp]

Thankfully after 1986 they are not manufactured anyway.

Only for the military, like the XM250

 

[Dude#1279435]

Only for the military, like the XM250

Point I'm trying to make. It's a military weapon, not civilian.