We review the $9,600 Legacy Audio Focus SE Speakers

[thomas w.]

I would love to see an updated review of these speakers as well as the Signatures as I am expecting to be replacing my burned up VMPS Tower II SEs (house fire) when I move back into the house. I havent found anything else on the market thats better than the VMPS speakers except maybe the Focus with the Signatures running a close second.

 

[thomas w.]

How is the work on the new measurement standard going?

 

[David C. Snyder]

I would love to see an updated review of these speakers as well as the Signatures as I am expecting to be replacing my burned up VMPS Tower II SEs (house fire) when I move back into the house. I havent found anything else on the market thats better than the VMPS speakers except maybe the Focus with the Signatures running a close second.

There have been some recent reviews of the Focus XD, which is quite similar to the SE. It has nicer mid-woofers and internal amplification.

Legacy Focus XD - The Absolute Sound

Legacy Focus XD - This massive six-driver, four-way speaker with integral 750W powered woofers delivers full-range dynamics and bass extension, among other attributes. Anthony H. Cordesman reports.

www.theabsolutesound.com

Legacy Audio Focus XD Floor Standing Speaker Review, Part I - HomeTheaterHifi.com

The Legacy Focus XD Loudspeakers are the company’s attempt at state-of-the-art sound for less than state-of-the-art money.

hometheaterhifi.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Looks like the Focus response is about +/-3dB and THD is < 1% from 20Hz-20kHz. So pretty good. Dual 12" woofers are awesome.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I havent found anything else on the market thats better than the VMPS speakers except maybe the Focus with the Signatures running a close second.

For big towers with dual 12" woofers, I think the Legacy Focus, RBH SVTR (62" towers), and RBH SFTR (58" towers) would be good options. Legacy Focus might be prettier though.

 

[thomas w.]

There have been some recent reviews of the Focus XD, which is quite similar to the SE. It has nicer mid-woofers and internal amplification.

Legacy Focus XD - The Absolute Sound

Legacy Focus XD - This massive six-driver, four-way speaker with integral 750W powered woofers delivers full-range dynamics and bass extension, among other attributes. Anthony H. Cordesman reports.

www.theabsolutesound.com

Legacy Audio Focus XD Floor Standing Speaker Review, Part I - HomeTheaterHifi.com

The Legacy Focus XD Loudspeakers are the company’s attempt at state-of-the-art sound for less than state-of-the-art money.

hometheaterhifi.com

David, the appeal of powered speakers is pretty much lost on me mostly because I abhor the idea of putting electronics inside the cabinet even though this has been done reliably since the dawn of speakers that featured a minimum of two-way design...after all the crossover networks are electronic and buried in the same cavity as the speakers are. It still bothers me on a very basic level. Its a conundrum. And having said that I am most likely going to be buying powered subs to replace the passive subs I did have. Confused? Yeah mee toooo

 

[thomas w.]

There have been some recent reviews of the Focus XD, which is quite similar to the SE. It has nicer mid-woofers and internal amplification.

Legacy Focus XD - The Absolute Sound

Legacy Focus XD - This massive six-driver, four-way speaker with integral 750W powered woofers delivers full-range dynamics and bass extension, among other attributes. Anthony H. Cordesman reports.

www.theabsolutesound.com

Legacy Audio Focus XD Floor Standing Speaker Review, Part I - HomeTheaterHifi.com

The Legacy Focus XD Loudspeakers are the company’s attempt at state-of-the-art sound for less than state-of-the-art money.

hometheaterhifi.com

I read the reviews and am totally impressed! In room response down to 10hz? Un freaking believable

 

[David C. Snyder]

David, the appeal of powered speakers is pretty much lost on me mostly because I abhor the idea of putting electronics inside the cabinet even though this has been done reliably since the dawn of speakers that featured a minimum of two-way design

I fought the idea of internally powered and active speakers for a long time also. But as you've suggested, the pro audio guys have been doing this for ages. It seems to me that pro audio is usually about twenty years ahead of the audiophile industry.

I owned Focus SE for 14 years before upgrading to the Focus XD. After hearing what they can do, I've reached my end-game. I've not even tried the Wavelet II processor yet.

In a smaller system 2-channel system, I just switched to a pair of Neumann KH 150 active DSP monitors. These follow a trend in pro audio where manufacturers are employing DSP with FIR filters in the active crossover to linearize the phase of the drivers over a broad frequency range. The results are unlike anything I've ever heard from loudspeakers with passive crossovers.

As much as I've enjoyed tinkering with "synergy" between loudspeakers and amplifiers over the past 3+ decades, for what I've gained in sound quality by moving to active or internally powered loudspeakers, I don't see myself ever going back.

 

[TLS Guy]

I fought the idea of internally powered and active speakers for a long time also. But as you've suggested, the pro audio guys have been doing this for ages. It seems to me that pro audio is usually about twenty years ahead of the audiophile industry.

I owned Focus SE for 14 years before upgrading to the Focus XD. After hearing what they can do, I've reached my end-game. I've not even tried the Wavelet II processor yet.

In a smaller system 2-channel system, I just switched to a pair of Neumann KH 150 active DSP monitors. These follow a trend in pro audio where manufacturers are employing DSP with FIR filters in the active crossover to linearize the phase of the drivers over a broad frequency range. The results are unlike anything I've ever heard from loudspeakers with passive crossovers.

As much as I've enjoyed tinkering with "synergy" between loudspeakers and amplifiers over the past 3+ decades, for what I've gain in sound quality by moving to active or internally powered loudspeakers, I don't see myself ever going back.

You are absolutely correct. People absolutely need to get over their aversion to active speakers. The phase time aberrations of passive crossovers have plagued speaker designers for well over half a century. Active crossovers with DSP offer for the first time a reliable solution to this problem.

Passive speakers are yesterday's technology, and people need to take that fact on board. Active designs with DSP offer the prospect of a quantum increase in sound quality.

 

[thomas w.]

I still have reservations about having the amps buried in the speaker cabinets. Its partly a reliability thing...if an amp takes a dump buried in the speaker then its a real hassle. If its an external amp, you just hook up another one....easy peasy.

Maybe my concerns are not really valid but I expect amplifiers to have a 20 year life at a minimum and I doubt any speaker mounted amp will ever do that

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I still have reservations about having the amps buried in the speaker cabinets. Its partly a reliability thing...if an amp takes a dump buried in the speaker then its a real hassle. If its an external amp, you just hook up another one....easy peasy.

Maybe my concerns are not really valid but I expect amplifiers to have a 20 year life at a minimum and I doubt any speaker mounted amp will ever do that

I would never put any amps inside any speaker or subwoofer simply because there is no real reason for me to do that. So all my speakers and twelve subwoofers I own are all externally powered, not internal.

Anyone who says that putting amps inside speakers and subwoofers makes them sound better is entitled to their opinions and they can keep it. Just like it’s their opinions that putting amps inside AVRs is a terrible idea.

A friend of mind recently bought two PerListen subs that cost $5K each. 3 months later both internal amps died. It was a PITA to have to get service and replace them. It happens. That’s a fact.

People like us already know the disadvantages of putting amps inside the cabinets- if the internal amps malfunction, it will be more difficult to handle vs an external amplifier. That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

 

[TLS Guy]

I still have reservations about having the amps buried in the speaker cabinets. Its partly a reliability thing...if an amp takes a dump buried in the speaker then its a real hassle. If its an external amp, you just hook up another one....easy peasy.

Maybe my concerns are not really valid but I expect amplifiers to have a 20 year life at a minimum and I doubt any speaker mounted amp will ever do that

I have no doubt some designers will make a hash of it and bury the amps. However with good and sensible design you should be able to replace a speaker power amp in minutes. You try and replace an amp in a receiver! It will be a huge hassle due to very, very poor design practices.

Electronics and audio in particular took serious steps backwards, with the onset of Asian design and manufacture.

They have NEVER got the hang of elegant design.

I could easily design an active speaker with long life and above all easy and straightforward serviceability.

 

[highfigh]

I still have reservations about having the amps buried in the speaker cabinets. Its partly a reliability thing...if an amp takes a dump buried in the speaker then its a real hassle. If its an external amp, you just hook up another one....easy peasy.

Maybe my concerns are not really valid but I expect amplifiers to have a 20 year life at a minimum and I doubt any speaker mounted amp will ever do that

As long as the heat sinks are on the back surface and adequate for the job, why would they be unreliable? Also, they shouldn't be "buried in the speaker", the whole module should be screwed to the back. Heat needs to be dissipated, so the heat sinks can't be internal unless forced air is used and that would introduce noise to the listening environment.

Plated feed-throughs for the components have been used to increase structural reliability in electronic components for many decades- what would a speaker do to the circuits that a rocket, missile, aircraft or car can't?

 

[David C. Snyder]

I expect amplifiers to have a 20 year life at a minimum and I doubt any speaker mounted amp will ever do that

I'll let you know in 19 years...

 

[TLS Guy]

I'll let you know in 19 years...

There is so much reactionary nonsense about active speakers. They promise the biggest quantum leap in domestic audio since speaker manufacturers paid attention to Thiele and Small's work.

It has the promise of massively improved transient response and a quantum leap in realistic reproduction if properly implemented.

As far as servicing, this could by made easy with a degree of chassis standardization. Then changing and amp would be removing four screws on the back of the speaker, pulling the amp out and unplugging two connectors. Then bring up the new amp and reverse the sequence above. Literally a few minutes.

Now look at replacing a power amp in these receivers people here are so fond of. It is next to impossible and seldom worth it. That is a disgrace in any event that people should have been screaming about for years.

I remember discussing this with Peter Walker before we even had AV units. He was just aghast at Asian manufacture, and correctly forecast a decrease in reliability and next to impossible serviceability. He was absolutely right and an apathetic public let it happen as they gushed over those shiny boxes with lots of knobs and buttons.

 

[thomas w.]

I fought the idea of internally powered and active speakers for a long time also. But as you've suggested, the pro audio guys have been doing this for ages. It seems to me that pro audio is usually about twenty years ahead of the audiophile industry.

I owned Focus SE for 14 years before upgrading to the Focus XD. After hearing what they can do, I've reached my end-game. I've not even tried the Wavelet II processor yet.

In a smaller system 2-channel system, I just switched to a pair of Neumann KH 150 active DSP monitors. These follow a trend in pro audio where manufacturers are employing DSP with FIR filters in the active crossover to linearize the phase of the drivers over a broad frequency range. The results are unlike anything I've ever heard from loudspeakers with passive crossovers.

As much as I've enjoyed tinkering with "synergy" between loudspeakers and amplifiers over the past 3+ decades, for what I've gained in sound quality by moving to active or internally powered loudspeakers, I don't see myself ever going back.

well while I can envy your freedom to choose the more expensive option up front, I have to wonder if you are signing up for expensive amp replacements due to vibration just a short few years down the line...making this option way more expensive in the long run. Some I am sure will be ok with that. I see speakers as a long term investment that requires little maintenance over its natural life so when I pay 15k for a pair of speakers I expect them to be maintenance free for 20 years if they are given good care during that time. I see people with powered subs replacing amplifiers after just a few years. I am not willing to do that for my main speakers. Nope. Subs can be restored to use fairly easily and if an amp goes down in one of the subs that doesnt cripple the system. It degrades it. If a main speaker goes down, your done...I accept tthe powered sub thing as an unfortunate consequence of modern hi-fi but if I had my way about it, all my subs would have the amp separate from the speaker cabinet. Its just the right way to do it.

 

[thomas w.]

There is so much reactionary nonsense about active speakers. They promise the biggest quantum leap in domestic audio since speaker manufacturers paid attention to Thiele and Small's work.

It has the promise of massively improved transient response and a quantum leap in realistic reproduction if properly implemented.

As far as servicing, this could by made easy with a degree of chassis standardization. Then changing and amp would be removing four screws on the back of the speaker, pulling the amp out and unplugging two connectors. Then bring up the new amp and reverse the sequence above. Literally a few minutes.

Now look at replacing a power amp in these receivers people here are so fond of. It is next to impossible and seldom worth it. That is a disgrace in any event that people should have been screaming about for years.

I remember discussing this with Peter Walker before we even had AV units. He was just aghast at Asian manufacture, and correctly forecast a decrease in reliability and next to impossible serviceability. He was absolutely right and an apathetic public let it happen as they gushed over those shiny boxes with lots of knobs and buttons.

I applaud your desire for standardization and the ability to plug and play just like we have done for years with computers. But every manufacturer seems to have the desire to make their stuff all proprietary and when you can convince the manufacturers to stop doing that the serviceability of modern powered speakers will be made simple enough you wont need a EE degree or at the very least an AAS in electronics to service your own speakers. When do you think that is going to happen?

But there is one other aspect of this NO ONE has addressed. What do you do when you want to upgrade? More power? Gotta buy new speakers, right? Cant just replace those amp modules because they have to physically fit as well as be electrically compatible. How much discretionary money do you have for this hobby? I dont have enough to make that kind of upgrade...my upgrades are gradual and not that often. Usually when a piece of equipment dies, it gets replaced by something allegedly better( thank you China ). Often the upgrade just isnt. The old way, largely, was better. Class A/b was the standard for most of us. Now class D but I have serious reservations about its long term reliability mostly due to these being stuffed into what is allegedly hi fidelity speakers to improve phase response and a few other parameters. And just after the warranty runs out you are buying new short lived amplifiers for these amazing speakers. Is that what you really want? Sorry I cannot buy into this bigger picture and call it progress.

 

[TLS Guy]

I applaud your desire for standardization and the ability to plug and play just like we have done for years with computers. But every manufacturer seems to have the desire to make their stuff all proprietary and when you can convince the manufacturers to stop doing that the serviceability of modern powered speakers will be made simple enough you wont need a EE degree or at the very least an AAS in electronics to service your own speakers. When do you think that is going to happen?

But there is one other aspect of this NO ONE has addressed. What do you do when you want to upgrade? More power? Gotta buy new speakers, right? Cant just replace those amp modules because they have to physically fit as well as be electrically compatible. How much discretionary money do you have for this hobby? I dont have enough to make that kind of upgrade...my upgrades are gradual and not that often. Usually when a piece of equipment dies, it gets replaced by something allegedly better( thank you China ). Often the upgrade just isnt. The old way, largely, was better. Class A/b was the standard for most of us. Now class D but I have serious reservations about its long term reliability mostly due to these being stuffed into what is allegedly hi fidelity speakers to improve phase response and a few other parameters. And just after the warranty runs out you are buying new short lived amplifiers for these amazing speakers. Is that what you really want? Sorry I cannot buy into this bigger picture and call it progress.

You are very unlikely to need more power. If an active speaker is designed correctly then the amps will be matched to the drivers. The tweeter a low powered amp, the mids and woofers more powerful amps. Don't forget that even a simple crossover wastes half the amp power, and more complex ones can waste up to 75% of the power. In addition passive crossovers have a habit of presenting complex and potentially damaging load to amplifiers, especially in the lower frequencies. So active designs are likely to make amps much longer lived.

If the industry will properly organize, this will result in actually lower costs and overall an infrastructure that tends to much increased reliability overall.
It also has the benefit of a quantum leap in sound quality. Only first order crossovers are minimum phase, the rest have notable phase shifts.
A second order crossover puts drivers 180 degrees out of phase, a third order 270 degrees out of phase and a fourth order 360 degrees out of phase, which is a whole cycle. At that point a square wave becomes a sine wave, so you have a very degraded transient response.
Active crossovers with DSP can solve these serious shortcomings. So use of this technology promises highly significant improvements in sound quality. So there are actually all benefits except one, in that you need an amp per crossover point. So a two way speakers requires two amps, a three way three amps and a four way would require four amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So active designs are likely to make amps much longer lived.

If you want active speakers, you can put the Amps/XO/DSP/EQ externally like the Linkwitz Orion or RBH Active speaker systems that use external amps so you can easily replace the amps without having to mess with the actual speakers.

Unless you are saying that Amps/DSP/EQ inside speakers and subwoofers are more reliable than external amps.

If that's the case, then putting amps inside AVRs will make them more reliable than external amps too.

I have 4 friends who own $2K-$3K SVS subs who had to replace their sub amps within a few years. So let's not say that putting amps inside speakers will make them more reliable than using external amps.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you want active speakers, you can put the Amps/XO/DSP/EQ externally like the Linkwitz Orion or RBH Active speaker systems that use external amps so you can easily replace the amps without having to mess with the actual speakers.

Unless you are saying that Amps/DSP/EQ inside speakers and subwoofers are more reliable than external amps.

If that's the case, then putting amps inside AVRs will make them more reliable than external amps too.

You can certainly put the amps and crossovers outside the speaker. However that makes for a lot more clutter and more cables going to the speaker, and increased possibility of wrong connections.

The amps are not more reliable because they are inside the speaker, but because they are directly connected to the speakers and will not be stressed by the difficult loads of inductors and caps between amp and speaker, especially in the low pass crossover. After forty years or so with active experience, I can attest to the fact that is a most definite benefit.