BIAMPING WITH 300B TUBE AMPS

W

WJGJ

Audioholic Intern
HELLO FOLKS,

PLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS

I HAVE POOR EYESIGHT

RECENTLY I PURCHASED 2 SINGLE ENDED TRIODE CLASS A 300B VALVE INTEGRATED AMPLIFIERS WITH 8W-8W OUTPUT

THEY HAVE A PRE IN

MY INTENTION IS TO USE THEM AS ANPLIFIERS AND PASSIVELY VERTICAL BIAMP TO KLIPSCH RP8000F MK 2 SPEAKERS

LEDT CHANEL CONNECTED TO THE UPPER BINDING POSTS

RIGHT CHANNEL CONNECTED TO THE LOWER BINDING POSTS

WILL THIS DAMAGE THE AMPS?

DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SETUP?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
HELLO FOLKS,

PLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS

I HAVE POOR EYESIGHT

RECENTLY I PURCHASED 2 SINGLE ENDED TRIODE CLASS A 300B VALVE INTEGRATED AMPLIFIERS WITH 8W-8W OUTPUT

THEY HAVE A PRE IN

MY INTENTION IS TO USE THEM AS ANPLIFIERS AND PASSIVELY VERTICAL BIAMP TO KLIPSCH RP8000F MK 2 SPEAKERS

LEDT CHANEL CONNECTED TO THE UPPER BINDING POSTS

RIGHT CHANNEL CONNECTED TO THE LOWER BINDING POSTS

WILL THIS DAMAGE THE AMPS?

DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SETUP?
No, but it will produce lousy sound, that is not stereo.

If you want to biamp, then you connect right and left outputs of one amp to the lower left and right speaker inputs and the right and left channels of the other amp to the upper terminals. Make sure you remove the jumpers from the terminals, or you will do damage.

You also have other problems, as you will NOT double your power. One amp will power the woofers and the other the tweeter. The woofers take nearly all the power and the tweeter little. So practically you gain nothing and waste an amp.

The next issue is that a single ended triode amp, is at the absolute apex of audiophoolery and one of the worst purchases you could ever make. They are low powered and awash in distortion no matter the qualifications of the idiotic designer.

I got over single ended triodes when I was eight or nine years old.

I built a Mullard 3-3 single ended tube amp when I was eight or nine years old. That was a good design and a high quality Gilson output transformer.
All I got from that was experience in electronic construction and to not use a single ended amp again.

So I built a Mullard 10-10 stereo amp with push pull EL 84 output tubes and used it continuously for about 20 years.

You have been reading the wrong press and have to dump these idiotic ideas you have lapped up.
 
W

WJGJ

Audioholic Intern
No, but it will produce lousy sound, that is not stereo.

If you want to biamp, then you connect right and left outputs of one amp to the lower left and right speaker inputs and the right and left channels of the other amp to the upper terminals. Make sure you remove the jumpers from the terminals, or you will do damage.

You also have other problems, as you will NOT double your power. One amp will power the woofers and the other the tweeter. The woofers take nearly all the power and the tweeter little. So practically you gain nothing and waste an amp.

The next issue is that a single ended triode amp, is at the absolute apex of audiophoolery and one of the worst purchases you could ever make. They are low powered and awash in distortion no matter the qualifications of the idiotic designer.

I got over single ended triodes when I was eight or nine years old.

I built a Mullard 3-3 single ended tube amp when I was eight or nine years old. That was a good design and a high quality Gilson output transformer.
All I got from that was experience in electronic construction and to not use a single ended amp again.

So I built a Mullard 10-10 stereo amp with push pull EL 84 output tubes and used it continuously for about 20 years.

You have been reading the wrong press and have to dump these idiotic ideas you have lapped up.
THANKS FOR YOUR ADVICE TLS GUY

MY CONCERN IS IMPEDANCE AND POSSIBLE DAMAGE TO THE AMPS


ABY SUGGESTIONS?

THANKS
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
THANKS FOR YOUR ADVICE TLS GUY

MY CONCERN IS IMPEDANCE AND POSSIBLE DAMAGE TO THE AMPS


ABY SUGGESTIONS?

THANKS
I have no idea what amps you are talking about other than they have single ended tube output stages.
 
W

WJGJ

Audioholic Intern
I have no idea what amps you are talking about other than they have single ended tube output stages.
SORRY FOR THE SLOW REPLY

I LIVE IN THE PHILIPPINES

TIME DIFFERENTIAL

2 WILLSENTON R300 PLUS AMPS

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
When I look into it, it's a lousy amp designed wrong in China. They can't even design a simple single ended triode amp right.
SORRY FOR THE SLOW REPLY

I LIVE IN THE PHILIPPINES

TIME DIFFERENTIAL

2 WILLSENTON R300 PLUS AMPS

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP
If you wire it correctly it won't damage the amp, the amp will damage itself without your help. Even when working correctly the distortion is 10 times higher than anything acceptable. Why in the name of a policeman did you buy those amps?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
HELLO FOLKS,

PLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS

I HAVE POOR EYESIGHT

RECENTLY I PURCHASED 2 SINGLE ENDED TRIODE CLASS A 300B VALVE INTEGRATED AMPLIFIERS WITH 8W-8W OUTPUT

THEY HAVE A PRE IN

MY INTENTION IS TO USE THEM AS ANPLIFIERS AND PASSIVELY VERTICAL BIAMP TO KLIPSCH RP8000F MK 2 SPEAKERS

LEDT CHANEL CONNECTED TO THE UPPER BINDING POSTS

RIGHT CHANNEL CONNECTED TO THE LOWER BINDING POSTS

WILL THIS DAMAGE THE AMPS?

DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SETUP?
Biamp connections, if done according to the amp and speaker's instructions, will not cause damage. On the speaker side, don't forget to remove the connection between the two sets of binding posts, if you don't remove them then yes you could/may damage the amp.

If you want to hear the so called tube sound, you can try that amp on the high frequency drivers, but to use it with those two 8 inch woofers are not a good idea. It will work but you will be better off using a $80 class D amp such as Fosi, Aiyima, or similar chip amps to drive those.
 
G

Golfx

Senior Audioholic
No, but it will produce lousy sound, that is not stereo.

If you want to biamp, then you connect right and left outputs of one amp to the lower left and right speaker inputs and the right and left channels of the other amp to the upper terminals. Make sure you remove the jumpers from the terminals, or you will do damage.

You also have other problems, as you will NOT double your power. One amp will power the woofers and the other the tweeter. The woofers take nearly all the power and the tweeter little. So practically you gain nothing and waste an amp.

The next issue is that a single ended triode amp, is at the absolute apex of audiophoolery and one of the worst purchases you could ever make. They are low powered and awash in distortion no matter the qualifications of the idiotic designer.

I got over single ended triodes when I was eight or nine years old.

I built a Mullard 3-3 single ended tube amp when I was eight or nine years old. That was a good design and a high quality Gilson output transformer.
All I got from that was experience in electronic construction and to not use a single ended amp again.

So I built a Mullard 10-10 stereo amp with push pull EL 84 output tubes and used it continuously for about 20 years.

You have been reading the wrong press and have to dump these idiotic ideas you have lapped up.
Such a sweet talker
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
HELLO FOLKS,

PLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS

I HAVE POOR EYESIGHT

RECENTLY I PURCHASED 2 SINGLE ENDED TRIODE CLASS A 300B VALVE INTEGRATED AMPLIFIERS WITH 8W-8W OUTPUT

THEY HAVE A PRE IN

MY INTENTION IS TO USE THEM AS AMPLIFIERS AND PASSIVELY VERTICAL BIAMP TO KLIPSCH RP8000F MK 2 SPEAKERS

LEFT CHANEL CONNECTED TO THE UPPER BINDING POSTS

RIGHT CHANNEL CONNECTED TO THE LOWER BINDING POSTS

WILL THIS DAMAGE THE AMPS?

DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SETUP?
I would like to add a few things:
  • Audioholics review of those speakers is here
    https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/klipsch-rp-8000f-ii
  • The speakers will come from the factory with red and black wires connecting the high and low binding posts. If you want to try the speakers with a single amplifier, leave the jumper wires on. If you wish to bi-amp the speakers using two amplifiers, remove the jumpers first (very important).
  • You need very sensitive speakers with those 8W+8W amplifiers but the Klipsch is rated at 98dB 2.53V / 1m so they should work ok.
  • While Klipsch rates the speakers at 8 ohms, the Audioholics review shows that they actually measure 5 ohms in the power band, so if the amplifiers have different taps (4, 8 and 16 ohms) the closest would be 4 ohms.
  • Your planned connections may be incorrect. To connect the speakers that way, you would need to bridge the inputs on the amplifier so both left and right channels get the same signal, and then connect one channel to the high terminals and the other channel to the low terminals.
    The other option is to feed a stereo signal to both amplifiers and connect both left channels to the left speaker and both right channels to the right speaker as TLS Guy instructed. That is more common.
  • Willsenton is fairly well regarded with tube amp enthusiasts. TLS Guy's critique is accurate but you can still try it out and see how you like it. The distortion levels are fairly high compared to solid state amps but there is a decent aftermarket for those amps, so you should be able to sell them if you want to try something else afterwards.
 
W

WJGJ

Audioholic Intern
I would like to add a few things:
  • Audioholics review of those speakers is here
    https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/klipsch-rp-8000f-ii
  • The speakers will come from the factory with red and black wires connecting the high and low binding posts. If you want to try the speakers with a single amplifier, leave the jumper wires on. If you wish to bi-amp the speakers using two amplifiers, remove the jumpers first (very important).
  • You need very sensitive speakers with those 8W+8W amplifiers but the Klipsch is rated at 98dB 2.53V / 1m so they should work ok.
  • While Klipsch rates the speakers at 8 ohms, the Audioholics review shows that they actually measure 5 ohms in the power band, so if the amplifiers have different taps (4, 8 and 16 ohms) the closest would be 4 ohms.
  • Your planned connections may be incorrect. To connect the speakers that way, you would need to bridge the inputs on the amplifier so both left and right channels get the same signal, and then connect one channel to the high terminals and the other channel to the low terminals.
    The other option is to feed a stereo signal to both amplifiers and connect both left channels to the left speaker and both right channels to the right speaker as TLS Guy instructed. That is more common.
  • Willsenton is fairly well regarded with tube amp enthusiasts. TLS Guy's critique is accurate but you can still try it out and see how you like it. The distortion levels are fairly high compared to solid state amps but there is a decent aftermarket for those amps, so you should be able to sell them if you want to try something else afterwards.
SIR,

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT
I'M CONFUSED ABOUT YOUR ADVICE STATED BELOW

"The other option is to feed a stereo signal to both amplifiers and connect both left channels to the left speaker and both right channels to the right speaker as TLS Guy instructed. That is more common."

I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED HERE IS VERTICAL BIAMPING AND WHAT TLS GUY DESCRIBED IS HORIZONTAL BIAMPING.

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
SIR,

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT
I'M CONFUSED ABOUT YOUR ADVICE STATED BELOW

"The other option is to feed a stereo signal to both amplifiers and connect both left channels to the left speaker and both right channels to the right speaker as TLS Guy instructed. That is more common."

I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED HERE IS VERTICAL BIAMPING AND WHAT TLS GUY DESCRIBED IS HORIZONTAL BIAMPING.

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
What I told you is correct. Do not bridge a tube amp.

So left of each amp to left side and right of each amp to right side. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CONNECT THE SPEAKER OUTPUTS OF THOSE AMPS TOGETHER. IF YOU DO IT WILL BE FLASH BANG TIME.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
SIR,

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT
I'M CONFUSED ABOUT YOUR ADVICE STATED BELOW

"The other option is to feed a stereo signal to both amplifiers and connect both left channels to the left speaker and both right channels to the right speaker as TLS Guy instructed. That is more common."

I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED HERE IS VERTICAL BIAMPING AND WHAT TLS GUY DESCRIBED IS HORIZONTAL BIAMPING.

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE.
To me, Eppie's the same as TLSGuy's.., they just used different words to describe the same wiring methods.

Those buzz words such as vertical and horizontal, used often on forums are not needed, often create confusion. Basically, you know with two stereo amps, you have the options to a) use one amp for the tweeters of both (that is, both left and right) speakers and the other amp for the woofers of both speakers, or b) use one amps for one(e.g. left) speaker and the other amp for the the other (e.g. right) speaker.

Eppie described option a), to call it horizontal, vertical, or 45 degrees lol.. are buzz words forum people and audiophiles preferred to use of, it served no purpose other than sometimes may even confuse people, as you obviously have found out already.

Here's a wiring diagram, for the probably more common method, without using those silly terms:

If you insist, calling this "horizontal", is probably appropriate, though again, there is no need to use such a term. Who cares what they are called, when what actually matters is whether you use one stereo amp with the same one speaker/channel, or use one channel of both amps on the woofers of both speakers, and the other channel of both amps, on the tweeters of both speakers.

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Bi-Wiring and Bi-Amping Explained | How To Improve Your Audio Setup | Audio Advice

1718279597527.png


And/or, as in the HD linked Steve's wonder article, if you must use the vertical/horizontal terms:

That shows what I call a) above, same as Eppie's, as what one might call it "Horizontal".

1718281848464.png
 
Last edited:
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
SIR,

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT
I'M CONFUSED ABOUT YOUR ADVICE STATED BELOW

"The other option is to feed a stereo signal to both amplifiers and connect both left channels to the left speaker and both right channels to the right speaker as TLS Guy instructed. That is more common."

I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED HERE IS VERTICAL BIAMPING AND WHAT TLS GUY DESCRIBED IS HORIZONTAL BIAMPING.

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE.
Not much to add to PENG's excellent post above. That should make it very clear.
 
W

WJGJ

Audioholic Intern
What I told you is correct. Do not bridge a tube amp.

So left of each amp to left side and right of each amp to right side. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CONNECT THE SPEAKER OUTPUTS OF THOSE AMPS TOGETHER. IF YOU DO IT WILL BE FLASH BANG TIME.
No, but it will produce lousy sound, that is not stereo.

If you want to biamp, then you connect right and left outputs of one amp to the lower left and right speaker inputs and the right and left channels of the other amp to the upper terminals. Make sure you remove the jumpers from the terminals, or you will do damage.

You also have other problems, as you will NOT double your power. One amp will power the woofers and the other the tweeter. The woofers take nearly all the power and the tweeter little. So practically you gain nothing and waste an amp.

The next issue is that a single ended triode amp, is at the absolute apex of audiophoolery and one of the worst purchases you could ever make. They are low powered and awash in distortion no matter the qualifications of the idiotic designer.

I got over single ended triodes when I was eight or nine years old.

I built a Mullard 3-3 single ended tube amp when I was eight or nine years old. That was a good design and a high quality Gilson output transformer.
All I got from that was experience in electronic construction and to not use a single ended amp again.

So I built a Mullard 10-10 stereo amp with push pull EL 84 output tubes and used it continuously for about 20 years.

You have been reading the wrong press and have to dump these idiotic ideas you have lapped up.
HELLO TLS GUY

PREVIOUSLY YOU STATED THAT IF I DO THE VERTICAL BIAMPING
I WILL HAVE A LOUSY SOUND THAT IS NOT STEREO

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THAT WOULD BE

I APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
HELLO TLS GUY

PREVIOUSLY YOU STATED THAT IF I DO THE VERTICAL BIAMPING
I WILL HAVE A LOUSY SOUND THAT IS NOT STEREO

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THAT WOULD BE

I APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE
Haha, it won't be easy to change TLSGuy's mind, so I'll just say, your so called vertical baimping is a good way to do it, given that your are using two identical amps. Of course you will still be doing stereo, it is so obvious that no explanation is necessary. That's of course assume your are feeding the two power amps with stereo input such that one amp will have the "pre in" connected to your preamp's left channel output and the other amp will have the pre in connected to your preamp's right channel output.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
HELLO TLS GUY

PREVIOUSLY YOU STATED THAT IF I DO THE VERTICAL BIAMPING
I WILL HAVE A LOUSY SOUND THAT IS NOT STEREO

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THAT WOULD BE

I APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE
The difference is also in how you connect the inputs on the amplifiers. For horizontal biamping (the first picture in PENG's post), you feed a stereo signal to both amps. Left output of your pre-amp to left input of both amps, right output of your pre-amp to right input of both amps.

In vertical biamping, since you are connecting both amp channels to one speaker, you need to feed the same signal to both channels, so left output of your pre-amp to the left and right input of the left amplifier, right output of your pre-amp to both left and right input of the right amplifier. The amplifiers basically get a mono signal: left signal to left amp, right signal to right amp. Which side you connect to the high frequency or low frequency terminals on the speaker does not matter in this case.

Either way, you need a Y-adapter from your pre-amp to your amps because you are connecting one output to two inputs. For horizontal biamping, the Y-adapter splits the signal between the two amplifiers. For vertical biamping the Y-adapter combines the inputs on one amplifier.
 
W

WJGJ

Audioholic Intern
The difference is also in how you connect the inputs on the amplifiers. For horizontal biamping (the first picture in PENG's post), you feed a stereo signal to both amps. Left output of your pre-amp to left input of both amps, right output of your pre-amp to right input of both amps.

In vertical biamping, since you are connecting both amp channels to one speaker, you need to feed the same signal to both channels, so left output of your pre-amp to the left and right input of the left amplifier, right output of your pre-amp to both left and right input of the right amplifier. The amplifiers basically get a mono signal: left signal to left amp, right signal to right amp. Which side you connect to the high frequency or low frequency terminals on the speaker does not matter in this case.

Either way, you need a Y-adapter from your pre-amp to your amps because you are connecting one output to two inputs. For horizontal biamping, the Y-adapter splits the signal between the two amplifiers. For vertical biamping the Y-adapter combines the inputs on one amplifier.
HELLO EPPIE

MY PREAMP HAS 2 PAIRS (LEFT AND RIGHT EACH PAIR ) OUTPUTS
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
HELLO EPPIE

MY PREAMP HAS 2 PAIRS (LEFT AND RIGHT EACH PAIR ) OUTPUTS
Where is this preamp coming from, and what is it? Your tube amps are integrated amps and have pre and power amps.
 
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