Colorado Supreme Court removes Trump from 2024 ballot

mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
How can any POTUS stay in office for the rest of our lives, assuming we aren't nuked into oblivion? He can't repeal an Amendment on his own.
Good question. Interesting gamble. And the damage that can be done in the meantime, that is before removed by force, may be generational.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
The court said that 18 U.S.C. 2383 is the only federal law on the books right now and Trump was not convicted under that law. T...
But isn't that a criminal law with some criminal penalty?
Removing from a ballot does not require a criminal act or conviction beforehand as there is no civil or criminal penalty by a removal due to lack of qualification, no?
Were the removed parties in the 1870s time period insurrectionist tried and convicted before removal?
Don't states have different rules today on who can be on ballot to run for presidency? Weren't there some minor candidates removed recently for not meeting state requirements?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
But isn't that a criminal law with some criminal penalty?
Removing from a ballot does not require a criminal act or conviction beforehand as there is no civil or criminal penalty by a removal due to lack of qualification, no?
Were the removed parties in the 1870s time period insurrectionist tried and convicted before removal?
Don't states have different rules today on who can be on ballot to run for presidency? Weren't there some minor candidates removed recently for not meeting state requirements?
Yes, it's a criminal law with harsh penalties (up to 10 years in prison) and a flat out ban on holding office if convicted.

>>>Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.<<<


As of right now this is the only law on the books that relates directly to the 14th Amendment.

As I read the Supreme Court decision, it seems to say that congress could pass a law banning oathbreaking insurrectionists from office without a criminal convection. This would be consistent with the other non-criminal qualifications (e.g. age) to hold office. The opinion is a little unclear though.

This article discusses the early history of the 14th Amendment:


Assuming the history.com article is correct, it was intended to prevent people from taking office without a criminal conviction:

>>>Johnson and congressional Democrats vehemently objected to the Senate’s language in Section 3, which they claimed violated the 6th Amendment guarantee to a fair trial. The disqualification clause appeared to punish former Confederates for their past actions without a trial or a conviction of treason.

Radical Republicans in Congress dismissed those objections, arguing that Section 3 wasn’t a punishment, but rather a new qualification for holding office. Under Section 3, to qualify for any political office in the United States (federal or state), you couldn’t have engaged in an insurrection.

“The argument was that Section 3 was no different than saying somebody had to be a certain age or be a citizen to hold office,” says Magliocca. “Everybody under 35 is not being ‘punished’ because they can’t be president. It’s a qualification for office, not a punishment.”

By framing Section 3 this way, Radical Republicans made it possible for officials to be disqualified by military and civil procedures instead of through drawn-out criminal trials.

“Congress understood that they probably weren't going to get many criminal convictions for treason, particularly if they held the treason trial in the South,” says Graber, “so this was a way to assure that people won’t hold office even without convicting them of treason.”<<<

After the Supreme Court decision, the 14th Amendment only allows states to ban people from taking state office. The state laws that purported to ban candidates from office are null and unenforceable as applied to candidates for federal office.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...

“The argument was that Section 3 was no different than saying somebody had to be a certain age or be a citizen to hold office,” says Magliocca. “Everybody under 35 is not being ‘punished’ because they can’t be president. It’s a qualification for office, not a punishment.”

By framing Section 3 this way, Radical Republicans made it possible for officials to be disqualified by military and civil procedures instead of through drawn-out criminal trials.

...
Yes, indeed. He is not going to jail unless he is charged criminally. Life continues, free to travel and lie to the world.

ps. need a time travel event to correct the weakness. :D :D :D
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
The court said that 18 U.S.C. 2383 is the only federal law on the books right now and Trump was not convicted under that law. The court left the door open for congress to pass additional laws in the future that could bar an oathbreaking insurrectionist. Here's a snip from the case:


This implies that a civil action to remove an an oathbreaking insurrectionist from office or to prevent an oathbreaking insurrectionist is authorized by the 14th Amendment, provided it reflects “congruence and proportionality.”
TLDR;

Courts interpret the existing laws on the books. Courts also say pass new laws and we'll also interpret those.

This is how it exactly is supposed to work. All the cry babies upset that Colorado and Maine can't determine the federal election just because they suffer from 'reality detachment disorder' isn't my, or the rest of the countries problem.

The rest of the country knows how to solve the Trump problem: Vote for Biden. It's going to be like swallowing my own vomit but better than eating poop.

I'll say this right here and now: I have a bigger problem with what Colorado and Maine did than I do with Trump.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
But isn't that a criminal law with some criminal penalty?
Removing from a ballot does not require a criminal act or conviction beforehand as there is no civil or criminal penalty by a removal due to lack of qualification, no?
Were the removed parties in the 1870s time period insurrectionist tried and convicted before removal?
Don't states have different rules today on who can be on ballot to run for presidency? Weren't there some minor candidates removed recently for not meeting state requirements?
I guess you should write ALL 9 of the justices then... Seriously what are the odds all 9 got it wrong?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Well, there was a bi-partisan bill to address border and immigration concerns, but the GOP voted against it because Trump wants chaos at the border.
Failure of border bill creates a political opening for Biden | CNN Politics
Who removed sections of the wall and ended the orders that prevented easy crossing, then did a 180 a few weeks ago and said he was er-enacting the restrictions? He also said that if Congress doesn't get it done, he would "shut the border down tomorrow".

It's politics and it's all bullshyte.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Who removed sections of the wall and ended the orders that prevented easy crossing, then did a 180 a few weeks ago and said he was er-enacting the restrictions? He also said that if Congress doesn't get it done, he would "shut the border down tomorrow".

It's politics and it's all bullshyte.
Your response does not refute my post.

I couldn't find anything referring to removal of sections of the wall. But, it's pretty clear that Biden is not in favour of it on principle, as he doesn't believe it's effective.
Biden's Border Wall, Explained - FactCheck.org

There are a lot of moving parts to the issue and it's not as simple as the GOP being hard on the border and the Dems being soft on the border. That said, this discussion is steering this thread into the ditch and should be moved elsewhere.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Your response does not refute my post.

I couldn't find anything referring to removal of sections of the wall. But, it's pretty clear that Biden is not in favour of it on principle, as he doesn't believe it's effective.
Biden's Border Wall, Explained - FactCheck.org

There are a lot of moving parts to the issue and it's not as simple as the GOP being hard on the border and the Dems being soft on the border. That said, this discussion is steering this thread into the ditch and should be moved elsewhere.
Before long our boarder issues won't matter with all the incoming illegals numbers and those still hiding out and working in the US becomes to large to mange or react to.

Ex in Dec 23 " In December 2023, Customs Border Patrol (CBP) agents apprehended nearly 250,000 illegal entrants at the Southwest border, a 23.5 percent increase over November, but more significantly a more than 10 percent increase over the prior monthly apprehension record, set in May 2022, of nearly 224,400.

And Total Nationwide Encounters. Not surprisingly, total CBP nationwide encounters reached a new peak in December as well, topping 371,000 last month. That’s 15,000 more people than live in Cleveland, and 64,000 more than live in Cincinnati, all coming to the United States illegally in just one month. "
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Before long our boarder issues won't matter with all the incoming illegals numbers and those still hiding out and working in the US becomes to large to mange or react to.

Ex in Dec 23 " In December 2023, Customs Border Patrol (CBP) agents apprehended nearly 250,000 illegal entrants at the Southwest border, a 23.5 percent increase over November, but more significantly a more than 10 percent increase over the prior monthly apprehension record, set in May 2022, of nearly 224,400.

And Total Nationwide Encounters. Not surprisingly, total CBP nationwide encounters reached a new peak in December as well, topping 371,000 last month. That’s 15,000 more people than live in Cleveland, and 64,000 more than live in Cincinnati, all coming to the United States illegally in just one month. "
I'm not disputing that illegal immigration is a problem. But, it's a product of demand, not Biden throwing out the welcome mat. My central point is that Trump clearly doesn't care about the issue except for how he can use it as a bludgeon to smack Biden.

And, again, this should be moved to another thread.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I guess you should write ALL 9 of the justices then... Seriously what are the odds all 9 got it wrong?
Absolutely right. Nine on SCOTUS cannot be wrong, only 5 in Colorado supreme court can be. My bad. After all, 9 is larger than 5. ;)
Oh, I like the unsigned opinion of that 9, so I read.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Absolutely right. Nine on SCOTUS cannot be wrong, only 5 in Colorado supreme court can be. My bad. After all, 9 is larger than 5. ;)
Oh, I like the unsigned opinion of that 9, so I read.
ooooook
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
The rest of the country knows how to solve the Trump problem: Vote for Biden. It's going to be like swallowing my own vomit but better than eating poop.
They need to supply barf bags at the polling stations this year.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
l

The rest of the country knows how to solve the Trump problem: Vote for Biden. It's going to be like swallowing my own vomit but better than eating poop.
Might solve a trump problem, but it doesn’t solve the Biden problem!
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Hell maybe the way the world is going, Taylor Swift will run for President , heck she has 282 million Instagram followers .:eek:

Back when Joe got himself elected he won 81,283,098 votes.. He is the first U.S. presidential candidate to have won more than 80 million votes. Trump won 74,222,958 votes.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Hell maybe the way the world is going, Taylor Swift will run for President , heck she has 282 million Instagram followers .:eek:

Back when Joe got himself elected he won 81,283,098 votes.. He is the first U.S. presidential candidate to have won more than 80 million votes. Trump won 74,222,958 votes.
Are they all voters?

Well, US population has increased a lot over the recent decades. Plus, other factors scared people to maybe, finally went to the election places. :D
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Hell maybe the way the world is going, Taylor Swift will run for President , heck she has 282 million Instagram followers .:eek:

Back when Joe got himself elected he won 81,283,098 votes.. He is the first U.S. presidential candidate to have won more than 80 million votes. Trump won 74,222,958 votes.
you know what they said in Chicago years ago, vote early and vote often !
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Are they all voters?

Well, US population has increased a lot over the recent decades. Plus, other factors scared people to maybe, finally went to the election places. :D
Hell if half were voters she still would win :D
 
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