Kimber Kable KCAG with WBT 0114 RG RCA plugs

[mtrycrafts]

I agree. And it applies to other hobbies and preferences.

You and I and others believe that everyone usually knows what’s best for themself when it comes to hobbies and preferences.

But some people talk as if everyone should always agree with them; as if they know what’s best for everyone else.

Preferences are very important indeed.
Problem comes up when testable claims are made about anything beyond a preference.

 

[cpp]

So, the Kimber 8TC cost $21/ft at the time of the review and the frequency response starts to drop off around 15KHz?

Sign me up!

View attachment 65824View attachment 65825

My hearing gives out around 11Khz.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have used cable sleeves in the past.

Do $13 Amazon sleeving look like this?

Everyone has their own personal preferences that they are happy with. If they are happy with $13 sleeving or BJC or any other cables, that’s cool.

The point is everyone is different and desires different things. Don’t expect everyone to like $13 sleeving or BJC or the same things.

The other point is, Gene has tested Kimber Kable and personally uses Kimber Kable. So they do cost more money, but Kimber are NOT junk cables.

Some people are willing to pay, some are not willing to pay. Not everyone wants the same thing.

Sleeving could cover that ugly twined mess I guess wire beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Twisted pairs for some uses can be nice, but speaker wire, meh.

 

[dolynick]

Sleeving could cover that ugly twined mess I guess wire beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Twisted pairs for some uses can be nice, but speaker wire, meh.

Fair. Kimber, for me, has that "oh cool, look at all that patterned braiding" look to me. I wouldn't call it pretty. Generally I'll take a nice sleeved finished cable - boring but clean and somehow more appealing visually and in a tactile sense than a rubber or plastic finish.

 

[lovinthehd]

Fair. Kimber, for me, has that "oh cool, look at all that patterned braiding" look to me. I wouldn't call it pretty. Generally I'll take a nice sleeved finished cable - boring but clean and somehow more appealing visually and in a tactile sense than a rubber or plastic finish.

I just hide speaker cable, no need to look at it. Tactile sense for speaker wire sounds like a fetish

 

[highfigh]

I just hide speaker cable, no need to look at it. Tactile sense for speaker wire sounds like a fetish

"It puts the lotion on its skin...".

 

[highfigh]

If wire is rolling off the high end as your post suggested, then wire clearly does matter and can influence sound.

The general argument when this sort of thread comes up is that expensive wire makes no difference. Your post seemed to be suggesting otherwise. So if your post was in support of expensive wire making a difference (which the tone generally did not), then that's interesting. If it was not in favor of the expensive wire, then you really can't post a graph like that to run down the wire on a technical level and try to have it both ways.

That rolloff is shown on the chart in the review that was posted, I only showed the chart- look for yourself, don't point fingers at me.

Kimber Kable 8TC Speaker Cable Review

This is a review of the Kimber Kable 8TC speaker cables. They measure, look and sound great.

www.audioholics.com

 

[highfigh]

It was more of a comment on the way he posted graphs suggesting the wire was inferior when I gathered that his argument was that "high end wire" doesn't do anything.

As for myself, I've used cheap wires and I've used some comparatively rather expensive cables. The argument that electrically, there's no practical difference based on data makes sense. That being said, science is, by its very nature, the process of continuing to look for explanations for things that we currently may not understand fully yet either. I'm willing to leave my mind open enough to accept there may be some differences, but also doubt that any changes are going to be night and day, if even audible at all to most

So when it comes to wires in terms of a hobby like this, my view is spend what you're comfortable with and what makes you happy. If you can afford crazy prices on some of these wires without breaking a sweat and it enhances your satisfaction with your system, then you do you. As I said in my first response though, I see it as more of a luxury expenditure rather than a practical one.

These days, for me, that tends to be something like some Mogami Gold or BJC Canare 4S11 (in the $10-$15 per foot range) for speaker wire if I want to go upmarket. And even then, I know it's mainly because I just want to spend that much rather than any major gains. Kimber's lower end is a little outside of my preferred price range these days, but I'm also happy with the 8TC I did spend more on way back when. I'm also entirely happy with my Cardas Neutral Reference (~$100 per foot) that I splurged to try when dropping fairly large sums on the rest of the stuff being purchased at the time, but I wouldn't do it again unless I won the lottery or something.

My last traditional speaker wire purchase (just before XMas this year) was a 250' spool of Monoprice 12 gauge CL2. The cost of shipping was about 40% of total spend. I'm perfectly happy with its performance in the application I had for it. After that, it was some paper flat Monoprice under-carpet wire - which was another experience in and of itself as I had never used anything like that before.

I don't know where you live, but speaker cable can be purchased locally- even if the cost of the cable is higher, the total is less because there's no shipping involved.

 

[highfigh]

Drop off what?

Those are NOT Frequency Response graphs.

Are you talking about the Inductance?

The lower the inductance, the better.

“All 3 Kimber models of cable exhibit very low inductance. Due to the braided geometry of these cables, not only are they low inductance, but their inductance profile vs. frequency is ruler flat for the entire audio band. By weight of comparison, the inductance of the 8TC and 8PR was a mere .037 uF/ft and .041uH/ft, respectively; which was nearly four times lower than the 10AWG Bluejeans speaker cables that I revere so much.”

So the Kimber inductance is 4 times lower than BJC, which means a lot better (on paper) since lower Inductance is better.

So, rising impedance doesn't tell you that the HF response drops off? Uh, yeah, it does.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So, rising impedance doesn't tell you that the HF response drops off? Uh, yeah, it does.

View attachment 65829

So a slight increase in resistance means there is a DROP OFF in frequency response?

@gene is the frequency response of these Kimber cables flat from 20Hz-20kHz or is there a DROP OFF in frequency response after 15 kHz?

From Gene's review: "The Kimber speaker cables exhibit a very flat AC resistance profile for the entire audio band. These cables don’t start to show appreciable signs of skin effect (increased AC resistance) until around 50kHz which is well above the 20kHz audio band. At 100kHz, the AC resistance of the 14AWG Kimber 4PR cables is equivalent to the Bluejeans 5T00UP 10AWG cables while the 8PR and 8TC cables exhibit much lower AC resistance."

So if the Kimber have LESS resistance than the BJC, how much does the BJC DROP OFF in frequency response?

I am not an electrical engineer, so @PENG what do you think about these electrical measurements (Resistance/Inductance) in terms of Frequency Response drop off?

 

[mtrycrafts]

My hearing gives out around 11Khz.

That good?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I just hide speaker cable, no need to look at it. Tactile sense for speaker wire sounds like a fetish

You mean some go up to their wire and start feeling it from time to time?
Is that during an active performance?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Got to be careful of too much capacitance that some amps, at least in the past went into oscillation and destroyed the amp. Naim was famous for this in the past.

 

[cpp]

That good?

Oh yes I guess as I get even older my hearing will continue to decline. Such is life.

 

[dolynick]

That rolloff is shown on the chart in the review that was posted, I only showed the chart- look for yourself, don't point fingers at me.

You're the one who posted the data in support of an assertion or statement. Who else am I supposed to ask for clarification on what exactly you were trying to say?

Your post suggests that cables can, in fact, change the sound of a system - based on measured performance. Is that your position? It's fine if it is, it's just unexpected.

 

[Tankini]

So a slight increase in resistance means there is a DROP OFF in frequency response?

@gene is the frequency response of these Kimber cables flat from 20Hz-20kHz or is there a DROP OFF in frequency response after 15 kHz?

From Gene's review: "The Kimber speaker cables exhibit a very flat AC resistance profile for the entire audio band. These cables don’t start to show appreciable signs of skin effect (increased AC resistance) until around 50kHz which is well above the 20kHz audio band. At 100kHz, the AC resistance of the 14AWG Kimber 4PR cables is equivalent to the Bluejeans 5T00UP 10AWG cables while the 8PR and 8TC cables exhibit much lower AC resistance."

So if the Kimber have LESS resistance than the BJC, how much does the BJC DROP OFF in frequency response?

I am not an electrical engineer, so @PENG what do you think about these electrical measurements (Resistance/Inductance) in terms of Frequency Response drop off?

When I needed to add length to my speaker wires, this is all I'd do worked good. But you have to watch out because if you make the loop to big you'll end up with flappy bass, to small of a loop you'll end up with high end roll off.

 

[davidscott]

That good?

Works for me.

 

[mtrycrafts]

....

Your post suggests that cables can, in fact, change the sound of a system - based on measured performance. ...

Would that be audible sound or just sound so small that it is impossible to hear no matter what. I would think a microscopic change in value would also be microscopic in output, no?

 

[dolynick]

Would that be audible sound or just sound so small that it is impossible to hear no matter what. I would think a microscopic change in value would also be microscopic in output, no?

That's why I'm questioning his intent with posting it. If it's as serious an impact as he suggests in bringing it up as a strike against the cable, then it would need to be audible as well. It would also imply that I could take my UMIK downstairs and use REW to measure a difference in swapping out my 8TC for something else.

It also suggests that, based on measurements of the cable, you could use cable selections to fine tune the sound of your system. "A bit bright? Try 8 TC to tame the highs." and so on. That flies in the face of conventional wisdom concerning audio cable companies expressed on most forums such as these - that cheap vs expensive wire generally makes no discernable difference.

If that was the intent, then it's the first time that I can recall reading someone presenting empirical data of wire making a notable impact on sound. Which makes wonder why there is such vehement opposition to cable companies in many companies if there is data available that does suggest they make a difference (even if it may not always be positive).

I'm just following the logic of where he was trying to go with it. If it was the above, then that is honestly interesting. If the intent was to dismiss boutique cables, then the logic seems contrary to the general premise most of those arguments are based on.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When I needed to add length to my speaker wires, this is all I'd do worked good. But you have to watch out because if you make the loop to big you'll end up with flappy bass, to small of a loop you'll end up with high end roll off.
View attachment 65831

LMAO.

Yeah I better be really careful with these wires. Don’t want any treble roll-offs or flappy bass due to minute changes in inductance and resistance.