Gains of (active) bi-/tri-/quad-amping

[ryanosaur]

Yeah, like I said, there are other THEORETICAL advantages.

But in real life practice, having owned 100% active systems in the past (Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1), I don't HEAR any of those advantages compared to passive systems, except for the active BASS control.

This is something I've been thinking about lately. It came up in some conversation that a guy building custom DSP into his system can remotely tune your room and update the DSP to newer settings. Obviously, most (all?) manufacturers would be smart to not open up their DSP to the user to tinker with as that could result in lackluster performance or worse...

Regardless, the beauty of a FR curve does not always reflect in the Sound of the FR curve. This has been discussed ample times. Yet as the DIY Designer may well be able to tinker his way to a near-perfect curve, where it really matters most is at the Driver XO point and as you say, down low.

Yes, in some ways Active Speakers can have their benefits, but this is far from a rule.

As an aside, it's been very cool to watch some of Sigberg Audio's DSP iterations as he fine tuned his designs prior to release. Again, his DSP is locked to the best of my knowledge, allowing the user to choose between preset options for fine tuning in their room... but the granular level of his tuning the design and getting the sound he wanted was very cool to watch.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, like I said, there are other THEORETICAL advantages.

But in real life practice, having owned 100% active systems in the past (Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1), I don't HEAR any of those advantages compared to passive systems, except for the active BASS control.

They are not theoretical but actual. It is particularly evident in crossover points below 400 Hz, which only the stone deaf could miss.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'm in Denmark.
Been to the US many times though, so I know I should clarify that Denmark is not the capital of Sweden.

Well, except retired USAF guys. They always seem to know exactly where Denmark is.

One of the other shops in EU is Boxem Audio, located in Luxembourg. (Just sharing... )

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They are not theoretical but actual. It is particularly evident in crossover points below 400 Hz, which only the stone deaf could miss.

I said theoretical in terms of subjective SOUND QUALITY improvement (HEARING), which is the only thing I care about at the end of the day - ACTUAL subjective sound quality.

Again, I think the ONLY advantage I can hear in Active systems is the bass, which is below 400 Hz.

Oh, so now your old-as-hell hearing is calling people stone deaf?

You can't just speak your mind without insulting people?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's hard to hear the specific differences if you can't compare the speaker system using a complete active crossover, then with the passive version.

It would be an interesting experiment, but switching between them quickly and assuring equal SPL from each would be tricky.

You mean like having the Orion3.2.1 vs Salon2 vs 802D2 in the same room and using an Adcom speaker switch to compare them? Definitely difficult to do it perfectly, but close enough for "government work".

 

[highfigh]

You mean like having the Orion3.2.1 vs Salon2 vs 802D2 in the same room and using an Adcom speaker switch to compare them? Definitely difficult to do it perfectly, but close enough for "government work".

If someone wants to compare the difference between an active vs passive crossover system, how would using two completely different speaker systems be a valid test?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If someone wants to compare the difference between an active vs passive crossover system, how would using two completely different speaker systems be a valid test?

Oh, you mean the same exact speaker, but one is active and one is passive. Gotcha.

Like I said, close enough for government work = meaning better than nothing since you are still able to see that passive speakers CAN sound just as good as an active system that was regarded by many critics to be among the best.

 

[highfigh]

Oh, you mean the same exact speaker, but one is active and one is passive. Gotcha.

Like I said, close enough for government work = meaning better than nothing since you are still able to see that passive speakers CAN sound just as good as an active system that was regarded by many critics to be among the best.

I never wrote anything about passive speakers not being able to sound good or great- the sound is #1, specs are #2. The speakers I built were, in theory, a project that was intended to be changed over time. The only time I have moved them since 2010 was to slightly tweak their positions when I installed the acoustic treatments. I have compared them directly to a pair of Dynaudio and a pair of KEF speakers and I have no reason to feel bad about anything regarding the sound. The response is very smooth down to 38Hz ± 3dB and when the music was recorded well, things can shake. It's not like a 12", 15" or 18", but I don't need or want that- I'll never have the bass of the EV 30W woofers, so there's no reason to attempt it. I haven't used a subwoofer since I started using these and when the recording has spaciousness, it's pretty interesting. I have listened to some very expensive speakers and heard everything as coming from the front of the cabinets.

 

[TLS Guy]

I said theoretical in terms of subjective SOUND QUALITY improvement (HEARING), which is the only thing I care about at the end of the day - ACTUAL subjective sound quality.

Again, I think the ONLY advantage I can hear in Active systems is the bass, which is below 400 Hz.

Oh, so now your old-as-hell hearing is calling people stone deaf?

You can't just speak your mind without insulting people?

Your problem is that you don't understand the physics of the situation. With low frequency passive crossovers you have huge inductors So you have significant resistance in series with drivers which adversely affects performance. You have to use iron core inductors, as if they were air core the series resistance is off the clock. So then you have core hysteresis issues adding distortion.

The other issue is that active crossovers give you a wider choice of drivers to match up. So there are frequently active solutions where there is no passive solution.

In addition it gives rise to other possibilities such as my infinitely variable BSC. This allow optimization to the location of speakers in the room. That is highly efficacious and leads to very much improved performance.

I do measure my hearing from time to time. and it is not significantly different from when I was much, much younger.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your problem is that you don't understand the physics of the situation. With low frequency passive crossovers you have huge inductors So you have significant resistance in series with drivers which adversely affects performance. You have to use iron core inductors, as if they were air core the series resistance is off the clock. So then you have core hysteresis issues adding distortion.

The other issue is that active crossovers give you a wider choice of drivers to match up. So there are frequently active solutions where there is no passive solution.

In addition it gives rise to other possibilities such as my infinitely variable BSC. This allow optimization to the location of speakers in the room. That is highly efficacious and leads to very much improved performance.

I do measure my hearing from time to time. and it is not significantly different from when I was much, much younger.

Your problem is that YOU HAVE NO COMMON SENSE.

It doesn’t matter what the theoretical or so-called physical advantages are.

The salient thing is how it ACTUALLY SOUNDS IN REAL LIFE.

If active speakers don’t ACTUALLY SOUND any better than passive speakers to people, then active speakers are not any better to them, even if you copy and paste from Google until you’re blue in the face.

Since you probably still don’t get it, let me say it again.

How the speakers ACTUALLY SOUND is more important than any physical advantages you have said.

There is a good reason why MOST speakers are passive (or at least EXTERNALLY POWERED if active). Just like there is a good reason why most people just buy AVR. But only people with common sense can understand this fact of life.

So do everyone a favor and stop trying to insult people who prefer passive speakers, externally powered active speakers and subwoofers, and AVR.

You like what you like. Let other people like what they like. Agree to disagree.

 

[lovinthehd]

Your problem is that YOU HAVE NO COMMON SENSE.

It doesn’t matter what the theoretical or so-called physical advantages are.

The salient thing is how it ACTUALLY SOUNDS IN REAL LIFE.

If active speakers don’t ACTUALLY SOUND any better than passive speakers to people, then active speakers are not any better to them, even if you copy and paste from Google until you’re blue in the face.

Since you probably still don’t get it, let me say it again.

How the speakers ACTUALLY SOUND is more important than any physical advantages you have said.

There is a good reason why MOST speakers are passive (or at least EXTERNALLY POWERED if active). Just like there is a good reason why most people just buy AVR. But only people with common sense can understand this fact of life.

So do everyone a favor and stop trying to insult people who prefer passive speakers, externally powered active speakers and subwoofers, and AVR.

You like what you like. Let other people like what they like. Agree to disagree.

That's why there's a difference between preference and reference....

 

[everettT]

Your problem is that YOU HAVE NO COMMON SENSE.

It doesn’t matter what the theoretical or so-called physical advantages are.

The salient thing is how it ACTUALLY SOUNDS IN REAL LIFE.

If active speakers don’t ACTUALLY SOUND any better than passive speakers to people, then active speakers are not any better to them, even if you copy and paste from Google until you’re blue in the face.

Since you probably still don’t get it, let me say it again.

How the speakers ACTUALLY SOUND is more important than any physical advantages you have said.

There is a good reason why MOST speakers are passive (or at least EXTERNALLY POWERED if active). Just like there is a good reason why most people just buy AVR. But only people with common sense can understand this fact of life.

So do everyone a favor and stop trying to insult people who prefer passive speakers, externally powered active speakers and subwoofers, and AVR.

You like what you like. Let other people like what they like. Agree to disagree.

Have you ever asked Shane his thoughts on the active SVRTs vs the passive?