How would this model as an MBM?

C

cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
I understand no parameters on the website but it can tell you the size of your port with some numbers. Sorry guys I guess I am a moron!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well my hearing is fine so it can't be louder than any concert or competition!
You're young, damage is still likely happening....especially at something like a "competition" (subs in cars I assume?).

As to 12volt's sub calculator, if it's not using the T/S parameters it's just largely guessing.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
I understand no parameters on the website but it can tell you the size of your port with some numbers. Sorry guys I guess I am a moron!
No, you just need to educate yourself some more, that's all. There are plenty of good DIY speaker forums out there with people willing to point you in the right direction. Not everyone wants to pay for BassBoxPro or can figure out how to use WinISD. A lot of people come here though with car speaker box designs or ask about drivers that are not really appropriate for home audio. Pro drivers are more about max SPL and power handling and it's common for them not to have very good low end extension. If you don't listen to any music that has content below 35Hz, that may not an issue, but most audio enthusiasts here look for extension down to 20Hz before they consider it a true subwoofer. You may get the mid bass slam you are looking for from a pro driver but I would trust the calculations from TLS Guy over anybody's.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
No, you just need to educate yourself some more, that's all. There are plenty of good DIY speaker forums out there with people willing to point you in the right direction. Not everyone wants to pay for BassBoxPro or can figure out how to use WinISD. A lot of people come here though with car speaker box designs or ask about drivers that are not really appropriate for home audio. Pro drivers are more about max SPL and power handling and it's common for them not to have very good low end extension. If you don't listen to any music that has content below 35Hz, that may not an issue, but most audio enthusiasts here look for extension down to 20Hz before they consider it a true subwoofer. You may get the mid bass slam you are looking for from a pro driver but I would trust the calculations from TLS Guy over anybody's.
I have had a long correspondence with this guy. I think he is finally understanding your can't tune a box to a given frequency and then place a driver in it, and it will miraculously perform below Fs. At the end of the day, only pipe organs and synths have frequencies below 27 Hz. So being obsessional about reaching 20 Hz is not really required.

There is a big problem in that there is a lot of BS out there on the NET. That just adds to the confusion. Thanks for your vote of confidence by the way.
 
C

cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Eppie: I have 2 subwoofers that were made to dig down to 20hz. I have a TC Sounds LMS-R Ultra 5400 18" sub tuned at 20hz. And a GSG Devastator with the Eminence 21" subwoofer seen here that's tuned at 19hz:
Devastator MkII 21-inch Ported Horn Home Theater Finished Subs (Powere – GSG Audio Design (gsgad.com)

So I don't need more low bass extension. TLS Guy was nice enough to model this sub for me and even though I think 38hz is tuned kinda high I will use his enclosure he suggested.
38 Hz is the F3 of the design.

If you look at the null of the impedance curve, box tuning is between 35 and 36 Hz. The driver has an Fs of 33 Hz. So it is impossible to do a design with that driver that is below the high thirty cps.
 
C

cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
So should the box be tuned at 38hz or between 35 and 36hz? You gave me a port size of 3" x 16" x 15.5". But doesn't that tune more around 37hz? On your actual model that you did it says a port length of 13.2" I believe?
 
C

cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
I typed in the port size and cuft and came up with this number:
Port size: 16" x 3". 4.5cuft box volume. 37hz tuning frequency. which leaves it with a 15.2 inch long port. Should I keep the port at 15.5?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Same port size with a length of 14" makes it 38hz...
I did all that right here:
Subwoofer Enclosure Calculators, Parallel, Series, Port Length and Volume (the12volt.com)
Bass Box PRO is a sophisticated program. It does calculate the ports accurately. Having said that whether the port is 15.2" or 15.5" makes no audible difference

When you requested a change in the port opening dimensions, I ran the design again with your changes, and Box Pro gave a port length of 15.5". Now I re ran it, as Bass Box does take into consideration air resistance of the port, which is why the port volume changed slightly.

However, you have to look at the big picture, as whether f3 lands anywhere between 35 and 40 Hz there will be no audible difference to the human ear.

In closing I would say there is huge misunderstanding on the net, about what is bass and what is midrange. 20Hz to 400 Hz, is bass. Human speech is unintelligible with a sharp roll off at 400 Hz. The mid range is certainly 400 Hz to 3,500 Hz at least, and I put it up to 4000 Hz. That is referred to as the speech discrimination band.
That is the band where reproducing systems have to be incredibly accurate in their on and off axis response. The ear will detect even small irregularities in this band.
It is the accuracy in the speech discrimination band that determines more than anything else, whether a speaker is enjoyable long term. Of course you don't want huge problems elsewhere, especially nasty peaky tweeters. But I think you get the point.

Lastly no one will tell if the F3 of that speaker is anywhere between 30 and 40 Hz. It is of zero consequence.

I really don't understand, or even see any justification whatsoever for this "mid bass" sub concept. To me it seems totally daft and to have no sensible rationale.

The reason is that any sub that reaches 20 Hz, should have a driver with a good response to 200 Hz at least and I think actually 400 Hz, if it is properly designed.

One thing I would recommend you do, is to invest in this woofer tester. They are easy to use, and it will give you the impedance curve of your speaker and then you will know exactly where your tuning frequency is, that you are so obsessed about. I would wager good money that the tunings of your current speakers are not where you think they are. But at least an impedance curve should be run on every speaker made DIY, that is a bare minimum check on the design.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Well my hearing is fine so it can't be louder than any concert or competition!
Have you had your hearing tested?

Remember, the usual tests don't go higher than 8KHz because audiologists are concerned with speech intelligibility, not being able to hear 20KHz or higher.

Anybody who has been exposed to extremely high SPL has hearing damage.
 
C

cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
That woofer tester is way too much for me I don't think I could figure it out. Thank you so much for all the info you have given me! I will definitely use your enclosure you came up with for me!
 
C

cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
So you just going to add the mbm as a third sub or you doing something with dsp to limit ranges for subs vs mbm?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Here is the sub I am using: B&C 18TBW100-4 18" Professional Subwoofer 4 Ohm (parts-express.com)
I still don't understand one thing. If the box is 4.5cuft port is 3" x 16" x 15.2" that tunes the box at 37hz. Is that fine? I got that from the slot port length calculator
PORT WIDTH: 16"
PORT HEIGHT: 3"
BOX VOLUME: 4.5CUFT
TUNING FREQUENCY: 37HZ
PORT LENGTH 15.2"

Subwoofer Enclosure Calculators, Parallel, Series, Port Length and Volume (the12volt.com)
Well of course it's fine. If the Fs of the driver is 33 Hz, where else are you going to tune it? The driver determines the box specifications and not you.
 
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