Rear speakers - open plan living

[planetshilp]

Hi all,

I am a newbie - so please go easy!

Looking at options to add rear speakers with my current setup:
Paradigm 6000 monitor (L&R)
Paradigm centre 2000 C
SVS - PB 1000 (Ported) - Sub

The trouble is that my living area is open-plan, so don't have a dedicated space. Please see the images below.

Looking to either get Paradigm surround 1's or SVS prime elevation or am open to suggestions (hence the reason behind posting this!) Don't have an option to go in-ceiling (it is a double story home and no provision), also can't have anything on speaker mounts (aesthetics and fear of them being toppled over).

Is it even worthwile having rear speakers?
Please suggest options.

Thanks for your valuable comments - look forward to going through them.

Cheers,
Mr. Singh

 

[wibble]

Hmm, not many great options to my eye.

You could consider in-wall rears, or something mounted high in the corners pointing down at you, but I suspect neither would be worth the significant trouble.

Maybe look instead at some atmos options to sit atop your towers and bounce off the ceiling. At least that way you can experiment with direction and get some improved HT effect, while remaining tidy.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi all,

I am a newbie - so please go easy!

Looking at options to add rear speakers with my current setup:
Paradigm 6000 monitor (L&R)
Paradigm centre 2000 C
SVS - PB 1000 (Ported) - Sub

The trouble is that my living area is open-plan, so don't have a dedicated space. Please see the images below.

Looking to either get Paradigm surround 1's or SVS prime elevation or am open to suggestions (hence the reason behind posting this!) Don't have an option to go in-ceiling (it is a double story home and no provision), also can't have anything on speaker mounts (aesthetics and fear of them being toppled over).

Is it even worthwile having rear speakers?
Please suggest options.

Thanks for your valuable comments - look forward to going through them.

Cheers,
Mr. Singh

Just don't think about it. Doing surround audio in a room like that is a waste of time and money, in fact worse than that.

A room like that is best served with a really good 2.1 or 3.1 system. My advice is to spend funds to improve the 3.1 system you have. That will give you the best results.
Systems like you already have can give really good results in rooms like that.

 

[Wardog555]

I'll recomend bookshelves mounted to the wall at somewhere 4-5 feet off the floor.

Out of all the information here. Mines the most accurate.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'll recomend bookshelves mounted to the wall at somewhere 4-5 feet off the floor.

Out of all the information here. Mines the most accurate.

Likely it is the most incorrect. Only the front of the room is shown in the pictures. You don't even know there is a wall to hang the speakers on, that is in remotely the right place. You don't know if it is even possible to get wire to them. Very, very few great rooms are suitable for surround sound, and attempts to do so are more often than not misguided, a waste of money and architectural disasters. To top it off they end up being sonic downgrades.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Mark, I think the back of the room is on the left side of the photo. Personally I’ve had setups with surround(not rear) speakers in these locations. For ME, it was worth it.

 

[Eppie]

Tough choice in that room. Having wall mounted speakers might work in the far corner but not so great next to the doorway. In our living room I opted to mount the surrounds up high in the rear corners, so higher than what WIlliam has sketched in the photo. High surrounds are not ideal but they still make an audible difference if you just want to add some effects to movies. If this is primarily a music setup I would stick to 3.1.

As to how I would go about it in that room, I would get speakers with mounting brackets and just run cables on the floor to test things out. 14 gauge stranded copper is not that expensive. In that scenario, if you don't like the result, then you only have to patch a few screw holes and touch up the paint. If you like the result, then the trick is hiding the wires. Only a couple options that I see since you can't go in the ceiling. If there is basement access, then down from the stereo, through the floor joists and up the walls. If no floor access, then either in-wall or surface mounted. In-wall will require a lot of patching and repainting. For surface mounting you can buy tracks to run the wire inside and run the tracks on top of the base board. The lack of trim around the doorway will make that a tricky option as well.

As to speakers, depends on your budget. I am planning to replace my surrounds with the True Mini from Philharmonic Audio. You'll be hard pressed to beat the sound in that size but they are $380 US + shipping. They do make them in white, though, which I'm sure from the photos is your preferred colour.

 

[highfigh]

I agree that your room doesn't really lend itself to a surround system- mine doesn't, either. I could, but since most of what I listen to wasn't mixed for surround and since it wouldn't sound great with surround, I haven't bothered. My system is stereo. Not 2.1 or 3.1, stereo. The dialog comes from dead center, right and left channel information come from the appropriate locations and anything between the two speakers pans evenly and without drops in level or detail. When I watch TV or movies, it works well and in systems that are less than very expensive/painstakingly set up and subject to glitches due to the technologies involved, I keep it simple.

That said, I think your system might be better if it were turned 90° to the left and the sofa placed so people can walk behind it, as they can with the chair. The walls to the sides of the speakers would be more symmetrical and the sound would benefit from that, IMO.

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree that your room doesn't really lend itself to a surround system- mine doesn't, either. I could, but since most of what I listen to wasn't mixed for surround and since it wouldn't sound great with surround, I haven't bothered. My system is stereo. Not 2.1 or 3.1, stereo. The dialog comes from dead center, right and left channel information come from the appropriate locations and anything between the two speakers pans evenly and without drops in level or detail. When I watch TV or movies, it works well and in systems that are less than very expensive/painstakingly set up and subject to glitches due to the technologies involved, I keep it simple.

That said, I think your system might be better if it were turned 90° to the left and the sofa placed so people can walk behind it, as they can with the chair. The walls to the sides of the speakers would be more symmetrical and the sound would benefit from that, IMO.

I tend to agree, but we really don't know what that space really is, and what is the long dominant axis and which the short. What I do know is that multichannel systems are installed in too many rooms they should not be.

 

[highfigh]

I tend to agree, but we really don't know what that space really is, and what is the long dominant axis and which the short. What I do know is that multichannel systems are installed in too many rooms they should not be.

Sure we do- it's a living room and the speakers are facing across the width, rather than the length. Look at the photo showing all of the equipment in post #1- the proportions are pretty easy to determine by finding the size of, let's use the center channel speaker, then using that to find out how many units of that size fit across each wall in the photo. The fact that the speakers are farther from the wall to the right and the angle from the closer speaker to the opposite corner in the other photo looks to be about 45° tells me that the room's width is about 65% of its length. Using a compass or divider makes finding the proportions very easy.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sure we do- it's a living room and the speakers are facing across the width, rather than the length. Look at the photo showing all of the equipment in post #1- the proportions are pretty easy to determine by finding the size of, let's use the center channel speaker, then using that to find out how many units of that size fit across each wall in the photo. The fact that the speakers are farther from the wall to the right and the angle from the closer speaker to the opposite corner in the other photo looks to be about 45° tells me that the room's width is about 65% of its length. Using a compass or divider makes finding the proportions very easy.

I do not think we know the size of this room. We only see three of the walls and not four. I do not have grasp of the size or volume of this connected space.

 

[highfigh]

I do not think we know the size of this room. We only see three of the walls and not four. I do not have grasp of the size or volume of this connected space.

I never wrote that we can know the size of the connected space, I wrote that it's easy enough to come close to finding the space where the system is located.

My guess is that the room is close to 9' high x 15' x 23.

My comment about rotating the room's contents was to provide better symmetry for the speakers. It's not perfect, but the right speaker being so much farther from the wall makes reflections come late, which shifts the image and causes phantom sound location because the path length is so much longer.

 

[TLS Guy]

I never wrote that we can know the size of the connected space, I wrote that it's easy enough to come close to finding the space where the system is located.

My guess is that the room is close to 9' high x 15' x 23.

My comment about rotating the room's contents was to provide better symmetry for the speakers. It's not perfect, but the right speaker being so much farther from the wall makes reflections come late, which shifts the image and causes phantom sound location because the path length is so much longer.

Well, I am not in the habit of making definite recommendations of this nature unless I know the total space and openings. I suspect there is more to that space than meets the eye. I need 360 views and not one photograph.

 

[Wardog555]

Likely it is the most incorrect. Only the front of the room is shown in the pictures. You don't even know there is a wall to hang the speakers on, that is in remotely the right place. You don't know if it is even possible to get wire to them. Very, very few great rooms are suitable for surround sound, and attempts to do so are more often than not misguided, a waste of money and architectural disasters. To top it off they end up being sonic downgrades.

Look at post number 6. They did the visual for you.

 

[TLS Guy]

Look at post number 6. They did the visual for you.

Of course I have seen that picture, but it does not convey nearly enough information about the space. Just not enough photographs.

 

[afterlife2]

Acoustic Audio AA321B Mountable Indoor Speakers 400 Watts Black Bookshelf Pair https://a.co/d/2usHIhY

For that room I'd say get small L&R heights speakers angling toward your ears. That's what I have and it works fantastic in my small bedroom. I'll try to take some pics so you get the idea when I get home.

 

[TLS Guy]

Acoustic Audio AA321B Mountable Indoor Speakers 400 Watts Black Bookshelf Pair https://a.co/d/2usHIhY

For that room I'd say get small L&R heights speakers angling toward your ears. That's what I have and it works fantastic in my small bedroom. I'll try to take some pics so you get the idea when I get home.

You can't assume it is small. I suspect that the photograph only shows part of the space, since it is all open plan. I could take photographs of our open plan space, and you would say it is small, when in fact it is a large space. Only three walls, one with an opening, are shown. A space has four, or more, walls and not three.

 

[afterlife2]

You can't assume it is small. I suspect that the photograph only shows part of the space, since it is all open plan. I could take photographs of our open plan space, and you would say it is small, when in fact it is a large space. Only three walls, one with an opening, are shown. A space has four, or more, walls and not three.

No I don't think it's a small room Doc, but I had those is a medium size room and they worked well for surround and you hardly notice them..

 

[afterlife2]

I use 12g white wires, so you can't even notice them.
Left

Right

 

[planetshilp]

Mark, I think the back of the room is on the left side of the photo. Personally I’ve had setups with surround(not rear) speakers in these locations. For ME, it was worth it.

Thanks for marking this up. The trouble is with the wall (next to the white curtain) is actually a sliding door. I was thinking of mounting the rears on the either side of the plantation shutter (behind the leather, brown couch). what are your thoughts on this placement?