Replacement/Upgrade for Emotiva XPA-11

[lovinthehd]

Well you have touched on another issue there, which is total system design. Lets not touch that can of worms tonight, except to say, that the state of the art has now reached the point where a total system design concept is required to properly implement the formats that have now evolved.

But even out of the number of av enthusiasts, how many take it to your level? Many are happy with basic component groupings. A really small fraction of consumers are as anal as you....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I dispute that it does not sound better. The Quad amps and other good power amps will sound better.

If you believe that your old amps sound better than amps inside AVR, that’s fine. I won’t debate this. Just don’t try to convince everyone else to believe you because many people don’t believe that your amps sound any better. Let’s agree to disagree.

But, hey, you know what? I believe my high quality high-end fully balanced ATI amps sound much better for my subwoofers than any little plate amps they put inside subwoofers and speakers. But I won’t try to convince everyone to believe me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

state of the art has now reached the point where a total system design concept is required to properly implement the formats that have now evolved.

What formats?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But even out of the number of av enthusiasts, how many take it to your level? Many are happy with basic component groupings. A really small fraction of consumers are as anal as you....

Who wants to or cares?

Everyone has their own idea of what a perfect system is.

 

[TLS Guy]

What formats?

When we are talking 11 channels plus with these Atmos rooms, I don't see how that makes any sense at all without customizing the room. When I go into homes, I see very, very few rooms or living spaces where these type of systems could function as intended and would almost certainly be better off with less speakers.

If you take our great room, then you could not possibly conceive of an Atmos system in that room, or even a 5.1 system. I know darn well there are clowns that would try.
The same goes for our family room. So as far as I'm concerned an integrated design from the ground up was essential for any possible benefit from these new complex systems, Atmos being top of the list.

When all is send an done, the 3.1 in the great room delivers an excellent AV experience and I would bet trying to add more speakers would be a huge downgrade.
The same goes for the family room which is 2.1, although 3.1 would be feasible.

There is an important axiom here, that fewer better speakers, best more poorer ones or badly placed ones. That seems to get forgotten here more often than not.

 

[TLS Guy]

But even out of the number of av enthusiasts, how many take it to your level? Many are happy with basic component groupings. A really small fraction of consumers are as anal as you....

I am not sure that is true of many classical music and opera lovers. This genre places far higher demands on the reproducing equipment. The dynamic range is colossal. The extremely quiet sounds demand really good SNR and the loud fortes massive reserves of power, to give that "you are there experience". When you have 150 to 200 orchestral players, and a couple of huge choirs and a massive organ all thrown into the mix, then you need power reserve in speakers and amps. In forces like that, the demand for midrange power is enormous. The vast majority of speakers available to the public do not nearly have enough midrange power and reserve. That is the reason my designs have far more resources devoted to that range than is usually the case.
In this time these sought of resources are justified. The 2023 Proms wound up a month ago. There were 84 concerts over two months, all broadcast and streamed in superb audio, two concerts a week in AV.

The BPO stream in AV with lossless audio and 4K picture, and now developing Atmos streams at pace. To buy a ticket and airfare to the Philharmonie in Berlin, buys a lot of equipment. So in my book, and also in the view of many BPO subscribers, I bet they regard the money devoted to their systems as money well spent. I know I do.
More and more venues are going on line now. I just listened to a superb stream from the BRSO in an absolutely magnificent venue.

That is just one example of why there has never been a better time to invest in AV in the home.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When we are talking 11 channels plus with these Atmos rooms, I don't see how that makes any sense at all without customizing the room. When I go into homes, I see very, very few rooms or living spaces where these type of systems could function as intended and would almost certainly be better off with less speakers.

If you take our great room, then you could not possibly conceive of an Atmos system in that room, or even a 5.1 system. I know darn well there are clowns that would try.
The same goes for our family room. So as far as I'm concerned an integrated design from the ground up was essential for any possible benefit from these new complex systems, Atmos being top of the list.

When all is send an done, the 3.1 in the great room delivers an excellent AV experience and I would bet trying to add more speakers would be a huge downgrade.
The same goes for the family room which is 2.1, although 3.1 would be feasible.

There is an important axiom here, that fewer better speakers, best more poorer ones or badly placed ones. That seems to get forgotten here more often than not.

If you’re talking about quality over quantity, then agree.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am not sure that is true of many classical music and opera lovers. This genre places far higher demands on the reproducing equipment. The dynamic range is colossal. The extremely quiet sounds demand really good SNR and the loud fortes massive reserves of power, to give that "you are there experience". When you have 150 to 200 orchestral players, and a couple of huge choirs and a massive organ all thrown into the mix, then you need power reserve in speakers and amps. In forces like that, the demand for midrange power is enormous. The vast majority of speakers available to the public do not nearly have enough midrange power and reserve. That is the reason my designs have far more resources devoted to that range than is usually the case.
In this time these sought of resources are justified. The 2023 Proms wound up a month ago. There were 84 concerts over two months, all broadcast and streamed in superb audio, two concerts a week in AV.

The BPO stream in AV with lossless audio and 4K picture, and now developing Atmos streams at pace. To buy a ticket and airfare to the Philharmonie in Berlin, buys a lot of equipment. So in my book, and also in the view of many BPO subscribers, I bet they regard the money devoted to their systems as money well spent. I know I do.
More and more venues are going on line now. I just listened to a superb stream from the BRSO in an absolutely magnificent venue.

That is just one example of why there has never been a better time to invest in AV in the home.

AFAICT most classical/opera lovers eschew multich to begin with. My dad was a huge classical fan but didn't really care what it was being played thru at home or in the office, the music itself was the important thing to him (altho he did like good gear, he just didn't dwell on it). Personally as you know I care little for classical (and especially opera), the demands of such aren't all that great in a general sense, particularly for recordings.....live would be a bit different (and I mean in person). I have no idea what proms or bpo is, tho.

 

[Diktat]

Hi guys!

Wow... what a debate I've started

From what I gather, there are quite a few differences of opinions on this topic.

I understand that going several amps would be the ideal solution, but unfortunately, as I expect to upgrade to 7.2.8 soon with the addition of 4 overhead speakers, I simply can't warrant buying 8 two-channel amps, even if it would be the ideal solution.

The convenience of a one-box solution is great for me, although I could definitely push to two amps if it would really make a difference to isolate the front three channels...

My main question would be whether the Marantz AMP 10 would have sufficient power to really drive all my speakers or not.. Would it be worth it to bridge the amp for the front three channels?

If I did go dual amp, would it be noticeably different for Home Theater use? What would be the recommended two amps to drive my system?

Thank you all for you inputs!

 

[Verdinut]

AFAICT most classical/opera lovers eschew multich to begin with. My dad was a huge classical fan but didn't really care what it was being played thru at home or in the office, the music itself was the important thing to him (altho he did like good gear, he just didn't dwell on it). Personally as you know I care little for classical (and especially opera), the demands of such aren't all that great in a general sense, particularly for recordings.....live would be a bit different (and I mean in person). I have no idea what proms or bpo is, tho.

Here is info on the Proms: https://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/proms/bbc-proms-2023/
BPO stands for the Berlin Philharmoniker Orchestra.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi guys!

Wow... what a debate I've started

From what I gather, there are quite a few differences of opinions on this topic.

I understand that going several amps would be the ideal solution, but unfortunately, as I expect to upgrade to 7.2.8 soon with the addition of 4 overhead speakers, I simply can't warrant buying 8 two-channel amps, even if it would be the ideal solution.

The convenience of a one-box solution is great for me, although I could definitely push to two amps if it would really make a difference to isolate the front three channels...

My main question would be whether the Marantz AMP 10 would have sufficient power to really drive all my speakers or not.. Would it be worth it to bridge the amp for the front three channels?

If I did go dual amp, would it be noticeably different for Home Theater use? What would be the recommended two amps to drive my system?

Thank you all for you inputs!

Bridging to passively bi-amp is never worth it.

The more power supplies you have the better. I think one of your problems is that you are trying to run far too many channels in a domestic situation. 7.2.4 is the most you need. I just do not believe you need more channels than that. I have a 7.2.4 set up, and it works perfectly. This front wide nonsense is because of front mains with lousy dispersion. My mains produce good imaging with the illusion of the room being much wider and longer then it is. I can be 100% certain that adding puny wide speakers would be a huge downgrade.

The other point I would make is that there is a tendency to place the front speakers far too close together. This is a bad mistake. Place the front right and left speakers about 14" from the side and front walls and the center between.

This habit if placing the front speakers so close together is what I see in pictures far too often. It is BAD mistake. That is because the speakers close together upsets the FR of the speakers because of interference out of phase issues causing comb filtering. I have proved that by experiment.

Lastly, I would reinforce that fewer better speakers bests more poorer ones by a big margin. The place to start will all of this is the best front three speakers you can possible afford, and then add the others as funds permit.

One of the curses of this multichannel fad, is that it has encouraged people to settle for lower quality speakers than they otherwise would have, if they had less speakers.

 

[Diktat]

Thank you all for your valuable input. From what I gather for now, increasing the number of speakers would have minimal effect and can be a future plan.
Remains the fact that I have to make a decision on a future amplifier to replace the Emotiva.

I keep looking on French supplier websites, but I can’t find much. I would have loved to explore a 3-channel amp dedicated to the front soundstage and an 8-channel amp for the surrounds and heights, but I can’t find much that would seem to surpass the Marantz Amp 10 in terms of delivered power…

I did see some Yamaha PX5 and PX8 which could do the trick, but I would need 6 of them, and they seem to have incredibly loud fans… I’m doubtful about the pro-amp route, especially since I work abroad and move countries every 2-3 years… with a complete reboxing/movement of the whole setup.

Regarding the one box solution, would the Marantz Amp10 really have sufficient power to drive the front soundstage well? Would I notice an improvement over the Emotiva (which had 300W for the front 3 speakers…). Is there any benefit to going with the Trinnov 16 amp? What would I gain for the extra 3kEUR?

Otherwise, for a maximum of two amps, what would be the best option to power the setup?

Again, thank you all for all your input…. I wasn’t expecting to replace the amp now, and it’s driving me crazy

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you all for your valuable input. From what I gather for now, increasing the number of speakers would have minimal effect and can be a future plan.
Remains the fact that I have to make a decision on a future amplifier to replace the Emotiva.

I keep looking on French supplier websites, but I can’t find much. I would have loved to explore a 3-channel amp dedicated to the front soundstage and an 8-channel amp for the surrounds and heights, but I can’t find much that would seem to surpass the Marantz Amp 10 in terms of delivered power…

I did see some Yamaha PX5 and PX8 which could do the trick, but I would need 6 of them, and they seem to have incredibly loud fans… I’m doubtful about the pro-amp route, especially since I work abroad and move countries every 2-3 years… with a complete reboxing/movement of the whole setup.

Regarding the one box solution, would the Marantz Amp10 really have sufficient power to drive the front soundstage well? Would I notice an improvement over the Emotiva (which had 300W for the front 3 speakers…). Is there any benefit to going with the Trinnov 16 amp? What would I gain for the extra 3kEUR?

Otherwise, for a maximum of two amps, what would be the best option to power the setup?

Again, thank you all for all your input…. I wasn’t expecting to replace the amp now, and it’s driving me crazy

Have you looked at Audiophonics or Boxem ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thank you all for your valuable input. From what I gather for now, increasing the number of speakers would have minimal effect and can be a future plan.
Remains the fact that I have to make a decision on a future amplifier to replace the Emotiva.

I keep looking on French supplier websites, but I can’t find much. I would have loved to explore a 3-channel amp dedicated to the front soundstage and an 8-channel amp for the surrounds and heights, but I can’t find much that would seem to surpass the Marantz Amp 10 in terms of delivered power…

I did see some Yamaha PX5 and PX8 which could do the trick, but I would need 6 of them, and they seem to have incredibly loud fans… I’m doubtful about the pro-amp route, especially since I work abroad and move countries every 2-3 years… with a complete reboxing/movement of the whole setup.

Regarding the one box solution, would the Marantz Amp10 really have sufficient power to drive the front soundstage well? Would I notice an improvement over the Emotiva (which had 300W for the front 3 speakers…). Is there any benefit to going with the Trinnov 16 amp? What would I gain for the extra 3kEUR?

Otherwise, for a maximum of two amps, what would be the best option to power the setup?

Again, thank you all for all your input…. I wasn’t expecting to replace the amp now, and it’s driving me crazy

The Amp-10 can output 215W into 8 ohms with all 7CH Driven at 0.1% THD. So it can certainly power your system.

Even an 11CH AVR alone will be able to power all your Klipsch speakers easily without using any external amps.

It seems like being “portable” is important to you. So the fewer the components, the better.

Might even consider doing just 5.1 or 5.1.2 (if ATMOS) and using a simple AVR. Get rid of the AVP and the Amp and some extra speakers.

But the Marantz AMP-10 can easily power all your speakers in your system.

 

[Danzilla31]

Hi everyone!

So my Emotiva XPA-11 Gen 3, which was powering my 7.2.4 system, has just blown the power source, and I need to send it back for service. As I’m looking at minimum 4 weeks before recovering it (if it’s fixable…) I’m entertaining options to replace it as an upgrade to my system, and looking for advice on what could be à sizes le improvement for my system.

Currently I’m considering 3 options:
- Replacing it with another 11-channel amp
- Replacing it with two amps, one dedicated for the front soundstage, and another for all surrounds/atmos
- Replacing it with a single, bigger amp, probably 16-channel, to either bi-amp the front surrounds and center, or add 4 overhead speakers.

Budget is not necessarily a hurdle, as long as the upgrade is really noticeable. I guess my max would be around the price of the new Marantz Amp10 (8k or so), which I’m considering as an option.

In addition, I’m considering taking advantage of a group offer to go on upgrading my receiver from the Marantz AV8805 (not A) into the new Marantz AV 10. Will this be an upgrade, or not really noticeable?

My usage is 70% Home Theatre, 20% Gaming and 10% music.

System:

Front surrounds: Klipsch RF-7 Mk III
Front center: Klipsch RC-64 Mk III
Surrounds: Klipsch RP-502S
Rears: Klipsch RP-600M
Elevation (Front and Rear): Klipsch RP-500SA
Subwoofers: Dual SVS PB-16 Ultra

Receiver: Marantz 8805
Amp: Emotiva XPA-11 Gen 3

Thanks all for your valuable input!

Hey a lot of great advice here so I kindoff ghosted just watching the thread. If I were in your shoes I'd get either

2 of the Monolith class AB 7 channels x 200 watts all channels driven amplifiers gives you 14 channels of amplification with tons of power and headroom

Or 1 of their class D 8250 8 channels x 200 watts driven and another of their class D the 8125 8 channels x100 watts all channels driven this option gives you 16 channels of amplification with tons of power and headroom

either one of these options puts you WAY under the cost of the Marantz

then you have all the amplification to drive as many speakers as you want that's a win win in my book

and if your patient Monoprice puts all these amps on sales often wait for the right sale and get a really good deal

 

[Diktat]

Hello everyone,

So after much thought and reflection, I’ve decided to remain on a one-box solution for now, due to the need of mobility and flexibility in my current situation. I will probably go separate amps later in a permanent and sedentary dedicated home cinema room in my home country.

Currently I see two options: the Trinnov Amplitude 16 and the Marantz Amp 10. There is a sizable difference in pricing between the two, but I’m unsure of what there is to gain between the two. What would you recommend? Should I go with the Marantz and later upgrade the 8805 to the AV10? Should I go with the Trinnov and later get the Altitude? What are the expected improvements?

thank you everyone for all your help and advice.

 

[Bonscott]

Hello everyone,

So after much thought and reflection, I’ve decided to remain on a one-box solution for now, due to the need of mobility and flexibility in my current situation. I will probably go separate amps later in a permanent and sedentary dedicated home cinema room in my home country.

Currently I see two options: the Trinnov Amplitude 16 and the Marantz Amp 10. There is a sizable difference in pricing between the two, but I’m unsure of what there is to gain between the two. What would you recommend? Should I go with the Marantz and later upgrade the 8805 to the AV10? Should I go with the Trinnov and later get the Altitude? What are the expected improvements?

thank you everyone for all your help and advice.

If you’re looking for Audible improvements between the amplifiers probably next to zero. In fact you probably also include the Emotiva and the Monolith.

 

[gene]

Hello everyone,

So after much thought and reflection, I’ve decided to remain on a one-box solution for now, due to the need of mobility and flexibility in my current situation. I will probably go separate amps later in a permanent and sedentary dedicated home cinema room in my home country.

Currently I see two options: the Trinnov Amplitude 16 and the Marantz Amp 10. There is a sizable difference in pricing between the two, but I’m unsure of what there is to gain between the two. What would you recommend? Should I go with the Marantz and later upgrade the 8805 to the AV10? Should I go with the Trinnov and later get the Altitude? What are the expected improvements?

thank you everyone for all your help and advice.

Trinnov has the power supply advantage but it's very pricey. I really like the Amp10 and think it's a good value. I have mine bridged powering Perlisten S7ts fullrange and it does a commendable job. The amp is low noise and transparent.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Currently I see two options: the Trinnov Amplitude 16 and the Marantz Amp 10. There is a sizable difference in pricing between the two, but I’m unsure of what there is to gain between the two. What would you recommend? Should I go with the Marantz and later upgrade the 8805 to the AV10? Should I go with the Trinnov and later get the Altitude? What are the expected improvements?

I see no audible differences between the 2 amps. So it comes down to whether you want the Altitude’s Trinnov vs the Marantz AV10’s Audyssey/Dirac, which is another thread.

The $18.5K Altitude16 is like PC with the Intel i3 CPU ($29K Altitude32 has Intel i7 CPU) w/ 5 YR warranty while the $7K AV10 has 3 YR warranty.

 

[Movie2099]

I see no audible differences between the 2 amps. So it comes down to whether you want the Altitude’s Trinnov vs the Marantz AV10’s Audyssey/Dirac, which is another thread.

The $18.5K Altitude16 is like PC with the Intel i3 CPU ($29K Altitude32 has Intel i7 CPU) w/ 5 YR warranty while the $7K AV10 has 3 YR warranty.

The Trinnov has a 10 year warranty. Industry leading 10 year warranty on an AV processor by the way! And the best customer service! Just an FYI to everyone on here.