AVR-X3800H + PMA-A110?

[AParsh]

Hey guys,
I'm posting this in the noob section because I'm not completely grasping the amp vs pre-amp thing especially when mixing with an AVR.
I'm currently using a Denon AVR-X4600H that is controlling:
2x Focal Aria 936 Tower Speakers (FL + FR)
1x Focal Aria 900 Center Speaker
2x Focal Aria 900 Bookshelf Speakers (RL + RR)

At one point I also had an Audiolab 6000A connected to the AVR-X4600H powering the 936's. I ended up getting some Acend Acoustics Sierra 2's in my office and moved the 6000A there to power those...and they sounded soooooo good together while the 936's on the X4600H did not sound noticeably different. The 936's always just sounded like they wanted to get bigger and wanted more power than they could get from either the 6000A or the X4600H.

I just ordered the X3800H and am now revisiting this idea of giving the 936's more power.

A lot of people rave about the PMA-A110 and it seems to have tons of power. Really good clean power from what i've heard. However, is the price the price because it's a pre-amp and is the "pre" part wasted on me if i'm connecting it to an AVR?

I really love the 936's and want to wake them up to their full potential.

Thanks in advance!

 

[flyboylr45]

Basically yes. The PMA-110A is an integrated amplifier, meaning it has a preamplifier built in. The “pre” part would not be used if connected to the X3800H. The only way to use the amplifiers on the PMA-A110 with the X3800H is if it has a HT pass through. Otherwise, the signal has to go through the PMA ”pre” before it gets sent to the amplifier section of the PMA. I highly doubt you’d hear a difference in power from the X3800 to the PMA. If you feel like you want or need more power just get a more powerful amplifier and use that with the X3800.

 

[PENG]

Hey guys,
I'm posting this in the noob section because I'm not completely grasping the amp vs pre-amp thing especially when mixing with an AVR.
I'm currently using a Denon AVR-X4600H that is controlling:
2x Focal Aria 936 Tower Speakers (FL + FR)
1x Focal Aria 900 Center Speaker
2x Focal Aria 900 Bookshelf Speakers (RL + RR)

At one point I also had an Audiolab 6000A connected to the AVR-X4600H powering the 936's. I ended up getting some Acend Acoustics Sierra 2's in my office and moved the 6000A there to power those...and they sounded soooooo good together while the 936's on the X4600H did not sound noticeably different. The 936's always just sounded like they wanted to get bigger and wanted more power than they could get from either the 6000A or the X4600H.

I just ordered the X3800H and am now revisiting this idea of giving the 936's more power.

A lot of people rave about the PMA-A110 and it seems to have tons of power. Really good clean power from what i've heard. However, is the price the price because it's a pre-amp and is the "pre" part wasted on me if i'm connecting it to an AVR?

I really love the 936's and want to wake them up to their full potential.

Thanks in advance!

What have you been setting your master volume most of the time when listening to music, and movies?
If you do get close to around -15 then I would say your may be right about the 936 might have told you to use a bigger amp sometimes. AVRs such as the mid range Denon can drive 4 ohm speakers but only if you don't push your luck on the volume dial and/or you sit very close to the speakers. The same can be said about most integrated amps and power amps too but in general, all else being equal, you obviously can go further with those as their are usually and officially rated for 4 ohm loads.

In that case, just grab a high power class D amp such as the NC502MP based one. You will get at least 400 W "clean" power that the 936 could benefit from if you do push them once in a while.

The Denon A110, or just about any good integrated amps for under $3,000 won't do much if anything for you. You need real power amps for your relatively big speakers that should have been rated nominal 4 ohms instead of the misleading 8 ohms.

 

[lovinthehd]

While the PMA-110 may have an edge on 4 ohm loads, it's still more similar to the avr's power level. I'd just add a power amp to the avr, a fairly powerful one (keep in mind just to gain 3dB spl you need to double power)....no need to duplicate the pre-amp sections like that.

 

[AParsh]

Thanks for all the input guys. Glad i asked, the seller of the PMA-A110 just offered me at $2500, which i would have totally gone for if i didnt read this.

Do you think it might make more sense to be going for a "Big" AVR and avoid any headaches that come with pairing a power amp to an AVR? The AVR-X8500HA replacement will be coming early next year and I can definitely use the X3800H in the meantime. And i can easily just sell the X3800H or I do have another location that could benefit from using it as a big upgrade.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for all the input guys. Glad i asked, the seller of the PMA-A110 just offered me at $2500, which i would have totally gone for if i didnt read this.

Do you think it might make more sense to be going for a "Big" AVR and avoid any headaches that come with pairing a power amp to an AVR? The AVR-X8500HA replacement will be coming early next year and I can definitely use the X3800H in the meantime. And i can easily just sell the X3800H or I do have another location that could benefit from using it as a big upgrade.

Well that's a better price than list but....

What headaches in adding a power amp to an avr (as long as it has appropriate pre-outs)? It's pretty easy. OTOH if one big box is what you want only, getting the better amp section in the flagships might be the way to go (like the upcoming AVR-A1H). I usually just use my gear in additional rooms rather than selling it...

 

[Verdinut]

What have you been setting your master volume most of the time when listening to music, and movies?
If you do get close to around -15 then I would say your may be right about the 936 might have told you to use a bigger amp sometimes. AVRs such as the mid range Denon can drive 4 ohm speakers but only if you don't push your luck on the volume dial and/or you sit very close to the speakers. The same can be said about most integrated amps and power amps too but in general, all else being equal, you obviously can go further with those as their are usually and officially rated for 4 ohm loads.

In that case, just grab a high power class D amp such as the NC502MP based one. You will get at least 400 W "clean" power that the 936 could benefit from if you do push them once in a while.

The Denon A110, or just about any good integrated amps for under $3,000 won't do much if anything for you. You need real power amps for your relatively big speakers that should have been rated nominal 4 ohms instead of the misleading 8 ohms.

IMO, that Focal Area 936 should be considered as a 3 ohm speaker. It's impedance curve dips down to 2.8 ohms at 100 Hz, and the phase response angle goes down below -50°. That is a tough badly designed speaker to drive. It definitely requires a power amplifier with a solid power supply.

 

[AParsh]

IMO, that Focal Area 936 should be considered as a 3 ohm speaker. It's impedance curve dips down to 2.8 ohms at 100 Hz, and the phase response angle goes down below -50°. That is a tough badly designed speaker to drive. It definitely requires a power amplifier with a solid power supply.

Thanks Verdinut. I was just watching Andrew Robinson's review of the 936 K2's (which are VERY similar to the regular 936's) and he said they clearly needed more power than what a typical AVR supplies. Was looking at some amps and watching a few other reviews and the same guy Andrew Robinson mentioned the power and quality of the Crown 1002 is insane bang/buck and can even buy 2 and turn them into mono amps. Might be a good direction for me.

 

[lovinthehd]

The Crown XLS amps are a good cost effective solution (I have five) but I'd just get a 1502 rather than the 1002, both for the better power and s/n spec. No need to bridge particularly either. Andrew does like them, but then he's like Mikey, he likes most everything Verdinut has some nice QSC amps as another pro amp to consider. Or perhaps the Buckeye Hypex amps.

 

[New Old Guy]

Hello boys and girls, new to the Forum. I'm a green newby in the whole stereo arena. I picked up a pair of Focal 936's, pushing them with a Yamaha rx a6a, I too think they need more power. I tried a Yamaha PX 5 amp using XLR's plenty of power but they sounded a little off. Looking at the Emotiva XPA 2 gen3? Any advice, opinions? thanks in advance

 

[lovinthehd]

Hello boys and girls, new to the Forum. I'm a green newby in the whole stereo arena. I picked up a pair of Focal 936's, pushing them with a Yamaha rx a6a, I too think they need more power. I tried a Yamaha PX 5 amp using XLR's plenty of power but they sounded a little off. Looking at the Emotiva XPA 2 gen3? Any advice, opinions? thanks in advance

What sounded "off"?

ps I wouldn't particularly look to Emotiva.

 

[PENG]

Hello boys and girls, new to the Forum. I'm a green newby in the whole stereo arena. I picked up a pair of Focal 936's, pushing them with a Yamaha rx a6a, I too think they need more power. I tried a Yamaha PX 5 amp using XLR's plenty of power but they sounded a little off. Looking at the Emotiva XPA 2 gen3? Any advice, opinions? thanks in advance

A Monolith 200 Wx2 amp, or two Outlaw monoblocks are probably better alternatives than the Emo amps.

 

[New Old Guy]

Thanks you have not heard of those

What sounded "off"?

ps I wouldn't particularly look to Emotiva.

the PX5 sounded a little dry or thin, not as good as just the A6A. I want to play it louder, Maybe the crown XLS 2502..?

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks you have not heard of those

the PX5 sounded a little dry or thin, not as good as just the A6A. I want to play it louder, Maybe the crown XLS 2502..?

Can't imagine why the amp would make your speakers sound like that particularly (or aside from power why it would be particularly different from your avr's amp section aside from eq). I would think the PX5 would work quite well and if dry and thin perhaps some eq is in order to change that. In any case the PX5 is about the same power as the 2502 in and both amps are quite capable, more than likely your speakers are the limitation; each of those amps can provide power beyond the 936's rating.