Line Stage SS advice

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When I used pure direct on my reciever instead of normal, it changed the sound quality like night and day. I figured if I can get a preamp that has better components and is more simplified without "all the bells and whistles," it will be even better than the pure direct.

That does sound very logical. I think we have all thought of this at one point.

But trying to get something even better than the excellent DIRECT MODE of the AVR will yield a diminishing return.

Now if you have a lot of time and money, it’s always fun to experiment and try things. Lord knows we all have tried many things especially when we were the young and the restless.

 

[TheloniousEllington]

That does sound very logical. I think we have all thought of this at one point.

But trying to get something even better than the excellent DIRECT MODE of the AVR will yield a diminishing return.

Now if you have a lot of time and money, it’s always fun to experiment and try things. Lord knows we all have tried many things especially when we were the young and the restless.

Understandable. I did research and found the Yamaha 1060's pure direct is all analogue, bypassing all of the digital processing, which is good to know.

Yeah, it might be a diminishing return, but I would think something like the benchmark LA4 to sound better than the 1060 pure direct. I could be wrong and it might be splitting hairs. You're right about time and money to find out, though! Cheers!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would think something like the benchmark LA4 to sound better than the 1060 pure direct.

Why? Because the LA4 THD+N is lower than the Yamaha’s 0.002% THD+N? As if that is audible?

So what THD+N or any other parameters are actually audible?

 

[lovinthehd]

The default setting when it's on, not using pure direct. PD tightened the bass, made the soundstage open up/more focused. Of course using cliches adds hyperbole.

Maybe, but maybe not... cheers!

Default could be a few things....tightened the bass and opened up the soundstage....no, never heard anything like that in audiophilia LOL.

 

[PENG]

The default setting when it's on, not using pure direct. PD tightened the bass, made the soundstage open up/more focused. Of course using cliches adds hyperbole.

Maybe, but maybe not... cheers!

Like HD, I have to wonder what "default setting" really means in your specific case. If you are to compare say the following:

Use analog input, stereo mode, disable YPAO and any other dSP functions such as sound modes etc., versus straight, direct, or pure direct, then there should be no or only very subtle audible difference.

If your "it changed the sound quality like night and day" was just t add hyperbole for forum talks, then fair enough, just keep in mind that if you have someone else to press that button, even subtle differences would very likely disappear, let alone night and day hyperbole. I am not against keep going after dacs, preamps, amps and stuff at all, I have my fair share, but I think it is a good idea to keep in mind why we are doing it, and think logically, that just about anything that can affect sound quality are known, and verifiable, except how and what people's mind can imagine things. For example, as ADTG cited, if THD is as low as what the RX-A1060's and if frequency response is virtually flat in the audible range, then as long as the output is no near it's clipping point, you can also guarantee there will be no sound quality difference in apples to apples comparisons. If you push the gear to near its clipping point, then all bets are off.

 

[TheloniousEllington]

Like HD, I have to wonder what "default setting" really means in your specific case. If you are to compare say the following:

Use analog input, stereo mode, disable YPAO and any other dSP functions such as sound modes etc., versus straight, direct, or pure direct, then there should be no or only very subtle audible difference.

If your "it changed the sound quality like night and day" was just t add hyperbole for forum talks, then fair enough, just keep in mind that if you have someone else to press that button, even subtle differences would very likely disappear, let alone night and day hyperbole. I am not against keep going after dacs, preamps, amps and stuff at all, I have my fair share, but I think it is a good idea to keep in mind why we are doing it, and think logically, that just about anything that can affect sound quality are known, and verifiable, except how and what people's mind can imagine things. For example, as ADTG cited, if THD is as low as what the RX-A1060's and if frequency response is virtually flat in the audible range, then as long as the output is no near it's clipping point, you can also guarantee there will be no sound quality difference in apples to apples comparisons. If you push the gear to near its clipping point, then all bets are off.

When I have my reciever on, it shows "straight" for L, R and sub. I don't have any effects or added digital processing that it offers. From that to the pure direct, there is a difference, not huge but to me it's noticeable. I'm actually not sure where the clipping point is on the RX-A1060. I usually have it around -15 to -10 and it's not extremely loud, though depending on some vinyl mediums with how it's mastered in volume.

 

[lovinthehd]

How does it create the sub signal without processing? I don't speak Yamaha, tho am assuming you are using a 2 ch source or there would be even more processing...but maybe the sub isn't optimized?

 

[PENG]

How does it create the sub signal without processing? I don't speak Yamaha, tho am assuming you are using a 2 ch source or there would be even more processing...but maybe the sub isn't optimized?

I read some Yamaha manuals and my understanding is that in straight mode, no sound fields are used, but there can still be DSP such as bass management, YPAO etc.

 

[PENG]

When I have my reciever on, it shows "straight" for L, R and sub. I don't have any effects or added digital processing that it offers. From that to the pure direct, there is a difference, not huge but to me it's noticeable. I'm actually not sure where the clipping point is on the RX-A1060. I usually have it around -15 to -10 and it's not extremely loud, though depending on some vinyl mediums with how it's mastered in volume.

If you compare "straight" to pure direct, then sure there could be a difference. Try compare it in straight, but disable all bass management, YPAO etc., speakers set to large and compare with you favorite contents in stereo. Then you won't be able to hear a difference.

With volume at -15 to -10, then depending on the contents you listen to, and dsp functions, the AVR would in fact be clipping during certain peaks in the content. In that case, a good line stage preamp might, in theory, help improved sound quality, all else being equal.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For Yamaha, Pure Direct = No Subwoofer Output.

Back when I had Denon, I could still get Subwoofer Output in Pure Direct mode.

Without using Room Correction or EQ/DSP, I doubt people can tell the difference between “Straight” vs Pure Direct if the subwoofers are not used.

I use the Yamaha RX-A3080 In my family room. When I occasionally sing karaoke using my Yamaha Stereo Mixer, I have to use Pure Direct mode. Otherwise the sound would echo in a bad way if I used STRAIGHT in the Yamaha or STEREO in the Denon. This is how I know that PD is NOT PROCESSING and Straight/Stereo does processing - the echo effect.

So in order to get subwoofer in PD on the Yamaha, I have to output the Front L/R to my subwoofer amp and then to the passive subwoofers. When I was using my Denon AVR-5308 in PD, I could still get sub outputs, which was a huge advantage over the Yamaha. As I’ve said before, Yamaha should learn this from Denon - in addition to learning Audyssey Dynamic EQ from Denon.

 

[PENG]

For Yamaha, Pure Direct = No Subwoofer Output.

Back when I had Denon, I could still get Subwoofer Output in Pure Direct mode.

Without using Room Correction or EQ/DSP, I doubt people can tell the difference between “Straight” vs Pure Direct if the subwoofers are not used.

I use the Yamaha RX-A3080 In my family room. When I occasionally sing karaoke using my Yamaha Stereo Mixer, I have to use Pure Direct mode. Otherwise the sound would echo in a bad way if I used STRAIGHT in the Yamaha or STEREO in the Denon. This is how I know that PD is NOT PROCESSING and Straight/Stereo does processing - the echo effect.

So in order to get subwoofer in PD on the Yamaha, I have to output the Front L/R to my subwoofer amp and then to the passive subwoofers. When I was using my Denon AVR-5308 in PD, I could still get sub outputs, which was a huge advantage over the Yamaha. As I’ve said before, Yamaha should learn this from Denon - in addition to learning Audyssey Dynamic EQ from Denon.

I believe a lot of people would hear "better" sound quality right after they press that pure direct button because..
In reality, if compare with just stereo with no dsp, no bass mangement (in some cases), there will be no audible difference. In some vintage integrated amps, there would be a difference because tone control circuitry in those days were not near as good as nowadays. I remember when I press one such button on my Kenwood amp, the difference was obvious, not night and day difference, but obvious enough for anyone to notice, even with eyes closed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I believe a lot of people would hear "better" sound quality right after they press that pure direct button because..
In reality, if compare with just stereo with no dsp, no bass mangement (in some cases), there will be no audible difference. In some vintage integrated amps, there would be a difference because tone control circuitry in those days were not near as good as nowadays. I remember when I press one such button on my Kenwood amp, the difference was obvious, not night and day difference, but obvious enough for anyone to notice, even with eyes closed.

Yeah, it depends on the unit. One of my 1st standalone processors was a $1500 Pioneer Elite Dolby Digital processor. It only had one decoder - DD. It didn’t have a Direct or PD mode. When I compared it to a $500 Harman Kardon AVR, the $500 5.1CH AVR sounded so much better. I concluded that the Pioneer processor had some kind of tone control that I couldn’t or didn’t bypass.

But on a modern day AVR like the Yamaha, I doubt anyone will hear a difference because even the Straight or Stereo mode is extremely clean. Technological advancement is a good thing.