Speaker sensitivity?

[Squishman]

My La Scalas are super sensitive at 104 db. I am strongly considering selling them and buying Crites Cornscalas Style B. Mainly because I want more bass in my mains. I am tired of turning up the subwoofer output every time I play an LP just so the subwoofer triggers on. The Cornscalas have way more bass so I am sure that I wouldn't need the sub on for music. But they are 100 db as far as sensitivity. This is what Michael Crites told me today in an email. So, I am wondering, could a guy could even detect a 4 db difference? Is 100 db quite good as it is? I am far from an expert on specs, so i thought I'd ask you guys.

 

[Squishman]

Btw, Crites seems to have dropped the name "Cornscala". Now their speaker line is "CS". https://critesspeakers.com/ So I am looking at the CS Style B.

 

[Swerd]

There is no speaker industry standard for measuring speaker sensitivity. Klipsch may have it's own way, and other companies will have theirs. As a result, it's difficult to make direct comparisons among different makes of speakers.

Some companies measure sensitivity with the speaker close to a wall behind the speaker, or even in a corner. Others measure it with the speaker several feet away from a wall behind the speaker. The reinforcement from nearby walls can make a big difference.

Speaker companies are aware that people pay attention to sensitivity numbers, and that publishing higher sensitivities make more sales. That leads some speaker makers exaggerate their sensitivity numbers.

I wish there was an industry standard. The Canadian National Research Council does show speaker sensitivities when measured in their anechoeic chamber (with little or no reinforcement from walls), averaging the SPL over a range of frequencies from 300Hz to 3kHz, when powering the speaker with 2.83V, and when the measuring microphone is 1 meter away. If all speaker makers followed that standard, it might eliminate a lot of the exaggeration.

High sensitivity does not indicate better speaker sound quality. It just means less amp wattage is required for it to play loud. Far too many people confuse loud for high quality sound.

104 dB/watt at 1 meter is extremely sensitive. I think anything more than an honest 92 dB is actually very sensitive. Sensitivities of 86-88 dB are average. 84 dB or less, in insensitive.

Yes, you can hear a 4 dB difference in sensitivities, even 3 dB, and sometimes less.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think at best you’re splitting hairs worrying about sensitivity that much. I would offset the AVR subwoofer trim and the gain on the subwoofer so that when the sub is calibrated to 75 db(or however hot you run. Like maybe 78db etc) the AVR subwoofer trim is at say -5 or something like that. That will ensure there’s enough output voltage to trigger it on. Can’t remember which sub you have, but you can also use a splitter to increase the sub amps input sensitivity. That is another way to help trigger on issues.
Edit: add what swerd mentioned to this. We were clicking at the same time I guess.
Also, Klipsch is known to inflate their speakers sensitivity. This is a less nice way to say what I think swerd was saying. Also, I think you’re ears would give up long before either a 100db OR a 104db speaker would.

 

[Squishman]

I think at best you’re splitting hairs worrying about sensitivity that much. I would offset the AVR subwoofer trim and the gain on the subwoofer so that when the sub is calibrated to 75 db(or however hot you run. Like maybe 78db etc) the AVR subwoofer trim is at say -5 or something like that. That will ensure there’s enough output voltage to trigger it on. Can’t remember which sub you have, but you can also use a splitter to increase the sub amps input sensitivity. That is another way to help trigger on issues.

It's in my sig. HSU. I did do the splitter and still have it that way. It's been a pain in the ass. Calibration set it at -8.5. If I have an LP on, I need to jack it up to +1.5 at least. Then if I leave it there, I get too much bass with TV sound.
But thanks about the splitting hairs. And also Swerd for the info too. I didn't know it was about power requirements. I thought it was sound.

 

[Squishman]

I was asking about it because I didn't want to downgrade as far as what I thought was speaker sensitivity. When I first got my La Scalas and played the first LP, I was shocked at the detail I heard. Going from Klipsch Forte II's to La Scalas was a huge leap in sound from an LP. That's what I thought it was referring to. With that massive mid horn, I imagine they will be great.
I heard that Klipsch put a huge mid horn on the Cornwall IV and maybe other refinements because of and based on the great designs from Bob Crites.

 

[lovinthehd]

4dB sensitivity difference example....if you had a 40 watt amp initially, now you'd need a 100 watt amp to make same spl. Klipsch does tend to use an "in-room" equivalent and you can generally lower sensitivity 5 dB or so to match what most use, but as was said, they're still fairly high sensitivity so not likely any issues unless you're using a very low output amp perhaps. Plug your own numbers into a calculator like this https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/tools/calculators

Thought you got your sub issue squared away, can you not lower gain on sub any more?

 

[Squishman]

4dB sensitivity difference example....if you had a 40 watt amp initially, now you'd need a 100 watt amp to make same spl. Klipsch does tend to use an "in-room" equivalent and you can generally lower sensitivity 5 dB or so to match what most use, but as was said, they're still fairly high sensitivity so not likely any issues unless you're using a very low output amp perhaps. Plug your own numbers into a calculator like this https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/tools/calculators

Thought you got your sub issue squared away, can you not lower gain on sub any more?

It was never really squared away. I thought perhaps it was for a while. I don't mind using the gain on the sub every so often, but it just sucketh to have to adjust this and that to play an LP. And then back again!

 

[lovinthehd]

It was never really squared away. I thought perhaps it was for a while. I don't mind using the gain on the sub every so often, but it just sucketh to have to adjust this and that to play an LP. And then back again!

I'd try lowering the gain on the sub some more, and recalibrate. Hopefully you can find a level of avr output combined with your sub's gain setting where you don't have to "fool" the auto on feature.

 

[Squishman]

I'd try lowering the gain on the sub some more, and recalibrate. Hopefully you can find a level of avr output combined with your sub's gain setting where you don't have to "fool" the auto on feature.

I'll try that maybe this weekend. Thx.

 

[Squishman]

Shall I try about 9:00 on the knob? Or even less? It starts at 7 (as do all I suppose). I believe I tried 10:00

 

[Squishman]

I just calibrated with the gain at 9 or just a hair below that actually. Now my sub is at +.05 db. I believe that will be enough to trigger the sub. I am waiting for it to go on stand-by and then I'll give a record a spin.

 

[Squishman]

It worked. I had to wait forever for it to go on stand by. Then tried something non-rock. I put on Elvis "In the Ghetto". Came right on probably when the needle hit. By the time I looked it was already on. Anyway, I put on some Zeppelin and adjusted the gain to my liking. So glad you guys piped in!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Glad it worked!
The only thing I’ll say is that it’s general practice to keep the trim below the positive. Reason is that it can add distortion to the signal. I haven’t seen any measurements on this, but it’s fairly widely accepted. If you don’t notice anything, I probably wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Glad it worked!
The only thing I’ll say is that it’s general practice to keep the trim below the positive. Reason is that it can add distortion to the signal. I haven’t seen any measurements on this, but it’s fairly widely accepted. If you don’t notice anything, I probably wouldn’t worry about it.

Yeah but I read it as 0.5 trim setting (at least I've never had one to .05), which is fairly reasonable and not too far into + territory, but depends where the limit is for the avr signal to keep that auto - on thing happy.

 

[Squishman]

Playing Led Zeppelin II, last track on side one, volume not loud, sub turned off! Grrrr! Flipped the LP and had to crank it a bit to get it come back on. Am I s.o.l.?

 

[lovinthehd]

Playing Led Zeppelin II, last track on side one, volume not loud, sub turned off! Grrrr! Flipped the LP and had to crank it a bit to get it come back on. Am I s.o.l.?

Try lowering the gain on the sub again I suppose. Not that a lot of vinyl has subwoofer content otoh. Where do you have your speakers crossed over? The sub you have doesn't have an always-on option?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah but I read it as 0.5 trim setting (at least I've never had one to .05), which is fairly reasonable and not too far into + territory, but depends where the limit is for the avr signal to keep that auto - on thing happy.

Oh yeah, guess I missed the decimal. Derp!!!!

 

[Squishman]

Try lowering the gain on the sub again I suppose. Not that a lot of vinyl has subwoofer content otoh. Where do you have your speakers crossed over? The sub you have doesn't have an always-on option?

I'll check tomorrow. I get up at 4 am.
It does, but that cannot be recommended, can it? The switch is accessible easy enough. Are you suggesting manually turning it on each time? I'd hate to forget to turn it off.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'll check tomorrow. I get up at 4 am.
It does, but that cannot be recommended, can it? The switch is accessible easy enough. Are you suggesting manually turning it on each time? I'd hate to forget to turn it off.

No, I'd just leave it on. Sound better than always wondering if its going to turn on or off on its own....not a big fan of auto-on circuits and seems often a failure point in any case. I'd rather not have to touch sub controls once I'm setup....