Monolith 3 Budget Amplifiers Bench Test Results!

[Steve81]

Nope, they are UNBALANCED XLR, which I didn't even realize was a thing until I saw this.

All I can say is WTF Monoprice.

 

[squeedle]

All I can say is WTF Monoprice.

Amen. And same 5hit in their class AB amp:
Monoprice Monolith 7-Channel Amplifier Review

 

[Steve81]

I am correct that XLRs not fully balanced can still help with those issues am I right?

No. An unbalanced connection uses a single conductor, vs a twisted pair in a balanced connection. The twisted pair rejects noise. In XLR connections, the gain on the amp is usually 6dB lower as well, and the voltage from the preamp is 6dB higher to compensate, resulting in further improvements, including reducing the preamps effective noise.

 

[squeedle]

No. An unbalanced connection uses a single conductor, vs a twisted pair in a balanced connection. The twisted pair rejects noise. In XLR connections, the gain on the amp is usually 6dB lower as well, and the voltage from the preamp is 6dB higher to compensate, reducing the noise from the preamp as well.

Yes, that's how it SHOULD BE. But this is NOT. Don't take my word for it, read the product specs, the Q&A, or even the AH review itself to corroborate.

 

[Steve81]

Amen. And same 5hit in their class AB amp:
Monoprice Monolith 7-Channel Amplifier Review

It looks like they carry balanced XLR now, fwiw.

 

[squeedle]

It looks like they carry balanced XLR now, fwiw.
View attachment 63016

Hope that's true!

 

[Steve81]

Yes, that's how it SHOULD BE. But this is NOT. Don't take my word for it, read the product specs, the Q&A, or even the AH review itself to corroborate.

I saw, was just responding to Dan on whether an unbalanced XLR would help with noise. Clearly it doesn’t.

 

[squeedle]

I saw, was just responding to Dan on whether an unbalanced XLR would help with noise. Clearly it doesn’t.

Apologies. Gotcha.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Nope, they are UNBALANCED XLR, which I didn't even realize was a thing until I saw this. Very, very disappointing and pointless. Either make proper balanced XLR or don't include it. Yes they admit it's unbalanced on their web site, but most people will assume that is a typo since it's FKKN RIDICULOUS to have UNBALANCED XLR! Tsk tsk, Monoprice.

I agree with you and you misunderstood my reply to Dan. I meant to say that XLR connection itself (the spec) is balanced. But in this specific case MP including unbalanced XLR connector besides offering objectively worse audio path, also confuses buyers.

 

[squeedle]

I agree with you and you misunderstood my reply to Dan. I meant to say that XLR connection itself (the spec) is balanced. But in this specific case MP including unbalanced XLR connector besides offering objectively worse audio path, also confuses buyers.

Apologies, and agreed 100%. My ire was up over this issue (not with you, but with Monoprice) and I jumped the gun.

 

[Danzilla31]

Apologies, and agreed 100%. My ire was up over this issue (not with you, but with Monoprice) and I jumped the gun.

Yeah I don't understand why they would even include them if they are not correctly balanced. Maybe because their HTP-1 has no unbalanced outs? So people will buy this amp for their gear? Even if it would make the product cost more they should have done this right. I'd rather just buy an outlaw. Even my OSD amp is balanced on its XLR's and those are inexpensive Emotiva knock offs.

It couldn't have cost that much more to do it right tho I mean they already did the bulk of the work

@gene did they have any explanation for why they would make them this way?

 

[Danzilla31]

Hope that's true!

Yeah I think the XLR on their pricier amps are balanced

 

[Danzilla31]

I'm just as upset as you guys about this. I own 2 prepros I want balanced XLRs to be able to take advantage of the benefits that you guys posted above. Might as well have kept a Denon with preouts for an amplifier with these connections

 

[ben_]

It's as much weird as frustrating. Like why is unbalanced even an option? It's not really a standard, I can't imagine it saving much money, and anyone who cares enough to use XLR is going to expect balanced (since that's the main selling point of XLR for home audio). Just a baffling choice.

 

[Steve81]

I'm just as upset as you guys about this. I own 2 prepros I want balanced XLRs to be able to take advantage of the benefits that you guys posted above. Might as well have kept a Denon with preouts for an amplifier with these connections

Honestly, unless you find noise to be a factor in your environment/ setup, balanced isn’t going to do that much. How much better do you need than inaudible? Not that there’s anything wrong with shooting for perfection, but there is a cost associated with that.

 

[Danzilla31]

Honestly, unless you find noise to be a factor in your environment/ setup, balanced isn’t going to do that much. How much better do you need than inaudible? Not that there’s anything wrong with shooting for perfection, but there is a cost associated with that.

I agree with you it's not audible. I do have a noisy room in one room I use so that is a priority for me but as mentioned by others in this thread it's just weird. It throws you off a bit because I do use the XLRs for balanced inputs on my amplifiers. I'm glad that they were very transparent though and did put it on their site for the amplifiers that these are unbalanced.

I appreciate them for being transparent about it. Maybe our feedback can help them make changes to these inputs on a second version if they sell well and decide to upgrade the model in the future

 

[Swerd]

@Danzilla31 @squeedle and others

There is a lot of confusion about what balanced audio is and isn't. Balanced audio is not provided by the XLR connectors. It requires shielded 3-conductor cables and plugs. It also requires balanced impedance circuitry in both devices on either end of the cable. Read the link below.

Balanced connections were used in recording studios for microphones because their low voltage signal levels (roughly 3 mV) and often long cables, 30 feet or longer, could actually pick up noise from low levels of electromagnetic or radio-frequency interference (EMI/RFI). Long ago, pro audio standardized on 3-conductor cables with XLR connectors for all audio connections, balanced or unbalanced, simply to eliminate confusion made by having both unbalanced and balanced cables, with RCA and XLR plugs. Similar balanced connections are used for electric guitars, they have similar low voltage signals, but they use different plugs.

Home audio standardized on unbalanced RCA audio cables. They cost less, and they take up less space on the backs of receivers, amps, etc. It makes no sense to insist on balanced connections between pre-amps and amps because the signal levels coming from pre-amps, or line-level devices, are 100-300 times higher voltage than from recording microphones. Even phonograph pick-ups, whose voltage is about equal to low voltage level microphones, use unbalanced RCA connections in home audio.

Probably, the biggest benefit from balanced connections comes from the differential circuitry in both upstream & downstream electronic devices. Monoprice, and others, sell products with XLR jacks, but lack the differential circuitry. Their performance is no different than with an unbalanced connection. Gene is right. This feature is purely cosmetic, and seems to be the result of marketing ruling over engineering. To be honest, very few homes have EMI/RFI strong enough to interfere with pre-amp level audio signals. I've never encountered it myself, or in homes of friends. Read about differential signaling and how it silences EMI/RFI in balanced connections.

Balanced audio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ben_]

I understand what balanced XLR is, and that it's not provided simply by the connectors. Still, I stand by my assertion that providing unbalanced XLR inputs is weird, even as a cosmetic choice since the connectors are on the back of the amp.

 

[Swerd]

I understand what balanced XLR is, and that it's not provided simply by the connectors. Still, I stand by my assertion that providing unbalanced XLR inputs is weird, even as a cosmetic choice since the connectors are on the back of the amp.

I agree with you, it is weird. But weird is what home audio has become over the years. It became more a fashion show than a pursuit of improved sound. Many manufacturers are only too glad to cater to that, because enough customers buy it.

 

[ben_]

If they want cosmetics, bring back VU meters, either analog or LED.