Is four subwoofer management a game changer for Marantz?

[Paul McNeil]

I've got four subwoofers and a Marantz 8802 pre/pro (two channel bass management). I'm not interested in upgrading to better DACs or lower noise levels, I'm probably too old to hear those improvements. But I am interested in better bass management. Does the new Marantz series (AV10, AVr40/50), offering 4 subwoofer channel outputs and management, provide this? I've read the relevant reviews, and none (the reviewers do not have 4 subwoofers, unfortunately) have commented on this unique, and to me appealing feature. Either subjectively or objectively (REW measurements for example). Am I missing something out there...?

 

[everettT]

I've got four subwoofers and a Marantz 8802 pre/pro (two channel bass management). I'm not interested in upgrading to better DACs or lower noise levels, I'm probably too old to hear those improvements. But I am interested in better bass management. Does the new Marantz series (AV10, AVr40/50), offering 4 subwoofer channel outputs and management, provide this? I've read the relevant reviews, and none (the reviewers do not have 4 subwoofers, unfortunately) have commented on this unique, and to me appealing feature. Either subjectively or objectively (REW measurements for example). Am I missing something out there...?

Having independent control over subwoofers (or any channel) is head and shoulders better then not having it. As for a game changer, people have been using outboard products for years to achieve this but to see it built in on the mid-range products is something new and welcomed.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Having independent control over subwoofers (or any channel) is head and shoulders better then not having it. As for a game changer, people have been using outboard products for years to achieve this but to see it built in on the mid-range products is something new and welcomed.

That's what I would have thought. But where are the reviews, the REW measurments? I do see your point, theoretically. But...

 

[lovinthehd]

The feature is still relatively new for one thing. Many reviewers didn't even test the two independent subwoofer outs that have been in the Marantz/Denon lineup of avrs/pre-pros for years, let alone full tests of Audyssey setup (or Dirac); I just wouldn't expect most reviewers to do this either. With specific rooms and speakers used, the REW results may not be particularly relevant to your situation either. There are some user reports and measurements out there, tho. As said, it is a welcome feature in any case. I do have four subs in one system, but have used minidsp for independent handling, and have not yet got one of the new Denons to use the built in feature (but plan to eventually). Then again depending on how your subs are placed, even two independent sub pre-outs may be sufficient (two pairs of equidistant subs for example).

 

[Paul McNeil]

The feature is still relatively new for one thing. Many reviewers didn't even test the two independent subwoofer outs that have been in the Marantz/Denon lineup of avrs/pre-pros for years, let alone full tests of Audyssey setup (or Dirac); I just wouldn't expect most reviewers to do this either. With specific rooms and speakers used, the REW results may not be particularly relevant to your situation either. There are some user reports and measurements out there, tho. As said, it is a welcome feature in any case. I do have four subs in one system, but have used minidsp for independent handling, and have not yet got one of the new Denons to use the built in feature (but plan to eventually). Then again depending on how your subs are placed, even two independent sub pre-outs may be sufficient (two pairs of equidistant subs for example).

If a reviewer's REW measurements with four subwoofers (in room) were improved by the new Marantz products, that would be interesting for me, but of course would not guarantee the same result for me (I use REW). I assume that you use minids because it improves the bass response in your room. I don't use minidsp and am seeking a simpler solution. Can you send links to those reports you mention of the improved bass response with the new Marantz, please.

 

[everettT]

That's what I would have thought. But where are the reviews, the REW measurments? I do see your point, theoretically. But...

Testing the benefits would be room dependent and typically most reviewers don't test room correction and when they do there is always cavits.

 

[lovinthehd]

If a reviewer's REW measurements with four subwoofers (in room) were improved by the new Marantz products, that would be interesting for me, but of course would not guarantee the same result for me (I use REW). I assume that you use minids because it improves the bass response in your room. I don't use minidsp and am seeking a simpler solution. Can you send links to those reports you mention of the improved bass response with the new Marantz, please.

Yep, if he didn't change speakers or setup except for processor, that could be interesting. Can't say I've seen that comparison. Minidsp just offered the flexibility of sub placement with independent settings for delay/eq, then would still run Audyssey (the four being treated as one by avr), no one else did at the time. I didn't take note of anyone's results of the 4-independent thing, but have seen several positive comments from users in various fora/groups. I'm not even sure Audioholics, in one of the videos at least, may not have some info on this for you.

Overall if you are interested in the four independent sub thing I think you should just use it and report back

 

[Paul McNeil]

Testing the benefits would be room dependent and typically most reviewers don't test room correction and when they do there is always cavits.

All reviews are 'room dependent'. And all reviewers are caveats!

 

[Paul McNeil]

Yep, if he didn't change speakers or setup except for processor, that could be interesting. Can't say I've seen that comparison. Minidsp just offered the flexibility of sub placement with independent settings for delay/eq, then would still run Audyssey (the four being treated as one by avr), no one else did at the time. I didn't take note of anyone's results of the 4-independent thing, but have seen several positive comments from users in various fora/groups. I'm not even sure Audioholics, in one of the videos at least, may not have some info on this for you.

Overall if you are interested in the four independent sub thing I think you should just use it and report back

Great idea, but have to ask the wife about $7000 upgrade to AV10! Or maybe I learn how to use minidsp!

 

[lovinthehd]

Great idea, but have to ask the wife about $7000 upgrade to AV10! Or maybe I learn how to use minidsp!

Minidsp purchase (HD 2x4 would be the model to aim at) easier to hide Had to look back at model number of your pre-pro, thought you had one of the new pre-pros already for a sec there. What is your sub layout?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Great idea, but have to ask the wife about $7000 upgrade to AV10! Or maybe I learn how to use minidsp!

Yikes! Might be easier learning minidspHD lol.
Fwiw, there are a lot of resources out there to help. I also use minidspHD to manage my three subs, and hovorboss couch. I used to use a Behringer feedback destroyer to eq my bass. That was archaic by today’s standards but it worked. I do like the idea of inclusion, but that’s a big pill to swallow.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Minidsp purchase (HD 2x4 would be the model to aim at) easier to hide Had to look back at model number of your pre-pro, thought you had one of the new pre-pros already for a sec there. What is your sub layout?

A sub in all four corners....

 

[Paul McNeil]

Yikes! Might be easier learning minidspHD lol.
Fwiw, there are a lot of resources out there to help. I also use minidspHD to manage my three subs, and hovorboss couch. I used to use a Behringer feedback destroyer to eq my bass. That was archaic by today’s standards but it worked. I do like the idea of inclusion, but that’s a big pill to swallow.

I'm getting the 'minidsp' message. I have no idea what a 'hovorboss couch' is but maybe I want one. Certainly, I agree with inclusion.

 

[everettT]

All reviews are 'room dependent'. And all reviewers are caveats!

Subjective reviews maybe but I'd assume that this type of review would be measurement dependant and who wants to hear someone's opinion more then actual proof of benefit?

 

[lovinthehd]

A sub in all four corners....

More a mid wall fan for four subs myself. Yet you probably get two pairs of equidistant subs that way I'd think, and perhaps your current two sub ability may be fairly decent. Are your REW measurements bad or something?

 

[everettT]

Yikes! Might be easier learning minidspHD lol.
Fwiw, there are a lot of resources out there to help. I also use minidspHD to manage my three subs, and hovorboss couch. I used to use a Behringer feedback destroyer to eq my bass. That was archaic by today’s standards but it worked. I do like the idea of inclusion, but that’s a big pill to swallow.

I used a Behringer DSP for about 10 years, definitely worth the small investment untill some of the automated systems come about with reasonable results and even then went with minidsp ultimately untill just recently (last 5 years).

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I used a Behringer DSP for about 10 years, definitely worth the small investment untill some of the automated systems come about with reasonable results and even then went with minidsp ultimately untill just recently (last 5 years).

Haha sweet. I got mine for 40 bucks. And, they threw in a 70volt two channel speaker amp. I use it in my studio for running monitors, but small investment indeed. It was clunky, but worked great.

 

[Paul McNeil]

"More a mid wall fan for four subs myself. Yet you probably get two pairs of equidistant subs that way I'd think, and perhaps your current two sub ability may be fairly decent. Are your REW measurements bad or something?"
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/posts/1609498/react?reaction_id=1
Yeah, can't do midway room placement though I know you are right about that being possibly better. My REW measurements are OK, but not from the Audyessy Multi EQ 32 adjustments alone. I get there via many adjustments to sub phase, distance and amplitude. Here's the REW measurement.....

 

[Paul McNeil]

Subjective reviews maybe but I'd assume that this type of review would be measurement dependant and who wants to hear someone's opinion more then actual proof of benefit?

Woof, woof!

 

[everettT]

Woof, woof!

I'm not sure what that means, but I can tell you independent control over every channel in your system is beneficial.