Audioquest Midnight -- anyone know the actual awg?

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It is an impression I got with the AQ midnight+, having used a "generic" LS cable for several years in my system, so in some way my impressions were different from original poster's impression of a "dark" sound (which didn't entail questions).
is there an Audioholics approved vocabulary to describe impressions gained from listening to system in config A vs B? I fail to understand how one can get on in improving one's system if impressions would not be accepted. "Does the Mozart piano concert o K467 touch you more than before, because the dynamic expression comes across better, or is the piano now sounding too glassy to do that." I understand some replace such questions entirely with a 1kHz test tone Sinad measurement. I find cancelling out the main bit music does (touch, move..) would be a mistake. but that's me, not necessarily you. To me this appears like judging a sporty car by measured 0-100kph times only, not by how much fun it is to drive it around corners (development in industry equally emphasises on both qualities).
Speaking of config A vs B....can you level match config A vs B? Can you switch quickly back and forth? Did you do it without knowing what config A vs B was? Impressions of music are one thing. Perhaps even speakers in the same room. After that, not so much.

ps What is the "LS" wire you refer to?
 
B

bh72

Enthusiast
Speaking of config A vs B....can you level match config A vs B? Can you switch quickly back and forth? Did you do it without knowing what config A vs B was? Impressions of music are one thing. Perhaps even speakers in the same room. After that, not so much.

ps What is the "LS" wire you refer to?
LS shall abbreviate Loud Speaker:; the baseline LS cable I purchased in mid 90s in an electronic super market the sort of Best Buy. I believe it was called Eagle Cable (a German brand), with many relatively fine litz copper wires packed in 2 poles of apprx 4mm², which were enclosed in darkish semitransparent gummy isolator material (PVC supposedly), spaced apart by a few mm (say 8?). We are talking about mid ninetees. It was ok, given the price of the equivalent of 50 euros for like 5m pair, terminated with cheap screwable banana plugs (also a topic in itself, though not for this site, I understand).

Re A/B comparison: I understand it is widespread to quickly switch back and forth A->B --> A etc, because allegedly its all in the short term memory and longterm memory is not reliable or doesn't exist.
I have done that (quick switching) with DACs where its easy to do, but generally, I feel it leads to much more reliable results to switch back/forth in waaay longer intervals and listen repeatedly to a bunch of selected songs for months. Switching then from A to B puts me in the situation that everything sounds to some extent different (if it actually does): plucked bass plops different, strings are smother or not, the room is flatter or more 3d, instruments hang in the room or in the speaker, the voices are more real or not, and so forth.. meaning, my personal musical short term memory does not nearly work detailed as the long term memory built up over months. Perhaps this is the root cause for me hearing differences, and notably so, where others do not? Also it is definitly not practical to operate along this procedure with a selected qualified listening panel (blinded or not). Anyway, after listening to B for a while (days..) or again A, I usually also become aware about my overall listening pleasure: do I want to spend more time listening than before, or is it even less, because it doesn't touch, startle, kick me, get me to dance?? So, it is quite a bit more holistic, then the ubiquitous 5s A--> B--> A. And, unavoidably, more subjective, but inline with the person that pays for it. What remains, however, is to conclude whether A or B was better, more often than not it is a somewhat mixed bag..

Now before this triggers someone here again, because it violates strict industrial standards of evaluation which everyone follows here (remember my comment re applicability in connection with qualified blind listening panel) I understand you all do it different. Or not at all. I am an amateur, not an EE-engineer busy developing a product. I leave it some time. Perhaps you find it worth to try it this way once and see how it goes?

cheers
 
Last edited:
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Switching then from A to B puts me in the situation that everything sounds to some extent different (if it actually does): plucked bass plops different, strings are smother or not, the room is flatter or more 3d, instruments hang in the room or in the speaker, the voices are more real or not, and so forth..
Is this a difference you're attributing to speaker cables or something else?
 
B

bh72

Enthusiast
Is this a difference you're attributing to speaker cables or something else?
this is general A / B comparison, and a typical description of what I notice or do not. I do not dare (or waste my time) describing actual results of concrete devices or let alone, a cable.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I read many things here I agree with :) I'd add sleep or lack of as a main influencing factor on my own listening abilities.

your last paragraph, I agree again! I recently threw out a newly purchased AQ cable which I had hoped (bias alarm!) would remove a certain harshness I have attributed (again expectation bias!) to a cheap cable in the system. The AQ, though in some ways better, caused a not so subtle frequency imbalance (in my system) so the cheap one (3 bucks) is in again and the not so cheap AQ (80?) is out.
So, bias isn't necessarily something we are hopelessly dominated by, though certainly not free of.
I have posted about the first time I removed a cable due to terrible sound and I had originally used it for my VCR. The VCR was removed from the rack because it needed service, so I used that slot for the new DVD player I had bought. Sounded like absolute crap and I was so disappointed that I considered returning the DVD player because I just didn't think it would be the cable at fault but then, I decided to try the cable that had been used for my CD player- night and day difference. I removed the cheap cable and the next day, I gathered the rest of the same type and returned them to the electronics distributor where I had purchased them. I told the manager that I couldn't sell them to my customers with a clear conscience.

However, when I read fairy tales in a product description, I look further to see how far they go in their deception. I sold an expensive pair of cables from Ixos and they probably cost less than the box they came in. I offered to return them and the customer said it wasn't a big deal, even though they cost me, as a dealer, $200. Never again.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
this is general A / B comparison, and a typical description of what I notice or do not. I do not dare (or waste my time) describing actual results of concrete devices or let alone, a cable.
Eh? Concrete devices!
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
F#%k cables. At this point, I’d be more interested in what some are smoking and exactly how much was spent on it.:oops: Copper, or gold roa… I mean alligator clip?;)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
this is general A / B comparison, and a typical description of what I notice or do not. I do not dare (or waste my time) describing actual results of concrete devices or let alone, a cable.
Eh? Concrete devices!
I'm holding out for some Oxygen-free Concrete devices.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
LS shall abbreviate Loud Speaker:; the baseline LS cable I purchased in mid 90s in an electronic super market the sort of Best Buy. I believe it was called Eagle Cable (a German brand), with many relatively fine litz copper wires packed in 2 poles of apprx 4mm², which were enclosed in darkish semitransparent gummy isolator material (PVC supposedly), spaced apart by a few mm (say 8?). We are talking about mid ninetees. It was ok, given the price of the equivalent of 50 euros for like 5m pair, terminated with cheap screwable banana plugs (also a topic in itself, though not for this site, I understand).

Re A/B comparison: I understand it is widespread to quickly switch back and forth A->B --> A etc, because allegedly its all in the short term memory and longterm memory is not reliable or doesn't exist.
I have done that (quick switching) with DACs where its easy to do, but generally, I feel it leads to much more reliable results to switch back/forth in waaay longer intervals and listen repeatedly to a bunch of selected songs for months. Switching then from A to B puts me in the situation that everything sounds to some extent different (if it actually does): plucked bass plops different, strings are smother or not, the room is flatter or more 3d, instruments hang in the room or in the speaker, the voices are more real or not, and so forth.. meaning, my personal musical short term memory does not nearly work detailed as the long term memory built up over months. Perhaps this is the root cause for me hearing differences, and notably so, where others do not? Also it is definitly not practical to operate along this procedure with a selected qualified listening panel (blinded or not). Anyway, after listening to B for a while (days..) or again A, I usually also become aware about my overall listening pleasure: do I want to spend more time listening than before, or is it even less, because it doesn't touch, startle, kick me, get me to dance?? So, it is quite a bit more holistic, then the ubiquitous 5s A--> B--> A. And, unavoidably, more subjective, but inline with the person that pays for it. What remains, however, is to conclude whether A or B was better, more often than not it is a somewhat mixed bag..

Now before this triggers someone here again, because it violates strict industrial standards of evaluation which everyone follows here (remember my comment re applicability in connection with qualified blind listening panel) I understand you all do it different. Or not at all. I am an amateur, not an EE-engineer busy developing a product. I leave it some time. Perhaps you find it worth to try it this way once and see how it goes?

cheers
Weird abbreviation since loudspeaker is one word. Still sounds like you were using some silly brand of wire if it cost that much for two relatively short speaker wires back in the 90s. You've been playing with silly wire for almost 30 years now! Wow.

Was actually more interested if you had any kind of viable comparison method to determine differences, but you don't. Probably don't even understand how an abx test might work from your comments. Good luck, wasted enough time with another audiophool.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
The analogy to cars was in taking single criterion (one or very few measurements only), vs the drive test. In fact, I find it not a stupid comparison but apparently misunderstood, and it is not trivial but rather sophisticated to design a product that not only meets isolated easily measurable targets but creates very positive "vibes" when driving it.
So you're comparing designing and engineering a car to designing and engineering speaker cables and/or interconnects?
 
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