"Owning" "hi-res" Audio

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PWRmx24

Audioholic Intern
Like many I prefer to own my music and have stuck to cds many years for that reason. But for higher quality audio I'm a bit confused (not too hard to do). SACDs and DVDA are basically dead and hard to find the titles I like. I find it difficult to find blu-ray audio too.
I saw that some sites like hdtracks say I can purchase the music and I then "own" it. But I'd like to hear from someone's practical experience on "owning" music from some of the sites. Thanks.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I've just not found "hi-res" particularly worth chasing compared to cd; I don't find that beyond cd quality yields a particular audible advantage, so not much of an issue to me....now, if a different mix/master than available on cd, that can perhaps be interesting. I have downloaded a bit of hi-res stuff and "own" it (as long as you keep it well backed up shouldn't be a particular issue), but most of what I download to own is just cd-level. The reason I still buy audio on sacd/dvd/bluray is for multich mixes, but as mentioned I also find pickings kind of slim (and didn't start collecting it until the last few years and availability of some older releases can get pretty pricey). FWIW I tend to only play the cds I buy to make sure they're defect-free and then just rip them and play them from various drives after that.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Like many I prefer to own my music and have stuck to cds many years for that reason. But for higher quality audio I'm a bit confused (not too hard to do). SACDs and DVDA are basically dead and hard to find the titles I like. I find it difficult to find blu-ray audio too.
I saw that some sites like hdtracks say I can purchase the music and I then "own" it. But I'd like to hear from someone's practical experience on "owning" music from some of the sites. Thanks.
That's a good question. There is a lot of nonsense in this area. The CD really is adequate for most purposes. It gets you to the limit of human hearing, and its dynamic range is just adequate. 44.1KHz, 16 bit was chosen as it gave reasonable playing time on a disc with the technology available then. 48KHz, 24 bit is more than adequate for any conceivable musical program. Going higher is simply a waste of bits.

SACD is something that should never have happened and was largely Sony's fault. There is absolutely nothing wrong with PCM. DSD is a nightmare to work with, so it is not surprising SACD using DSD is dying. Now I think people tend to want a picture with their audio, especially opera and musicals. This is where DVDs, and then BDs come into their own. BDs offer adequate FR and dynamic range in multichannel audio with or without a picture and now in Dolby Atmos. However a lot of these issues are up mixes of existing recordings, and original Atmos discs just stating to appear. I now have two discs, one audio only and the other AV. They are a revelation.

The next issue is that demand for hard digital media is in decline. Paradoxically hard analog media in the form of vinyl LPs is on the rise and has now overtaken CD sales. This has certainly surprised me and many others.

Of course the big elephant in the room is downloads and streaming. I am finding that many recordings that would have been available in CD are now only available as downloads. I would say most are available in hard copy or as lossless or lossy downloads. Price decreases in that order. I have purchased some CDs as downloads, but I have to say I have a preference for owning a hard copy, as you get a printed booklet with it. Also I have handled hard media for over seventy years now and old habits die hard as they say.

Then we get to audio streaming sites. Most use compressed audio codecs, but there are those offering lossless streams.

In the classical arena, there are increasing choices. The Berlin Philharmonic Digital Concert Hall led, and continues to lead the way. All concerts remain in the archive, which goes back to the tenure of Herbert Von Karajan, who foretold the digital age before it began. So he insisted his concerts be recorded and archived on video tape. The organization has grown with, and led the technology. Their concerts have been available in lossless audio for some time and most concerts are now released in Dolby Atmos AV streams. Unfortunately Dolby Atmos specs, limit the volume of streamed Atmos program which is misguided. However you just have to advance the volume. The quality of these Atmos stream has, and is improving at a rapid pace. The BPO now has millions of subscribers world wide, generating very healthy revenue. This has allowed their musicians to be paid truly professional wages, with salaries significantly above other orchestras. Other orchestras are taking slow painful steps. For some reason they only stream some, and not all concerts, and most only archived for a short period of time.

The Metropolitan Opera have Met Player, and the archive is permanent. However not all productions make it on to Met Player.
Medici TV based in France offer a world wide streaming service, but in my view the site organization could be better. Quality in the main is excellent.

As you might gather this is a rapidly evolving landscape. The BPO, Medici TV and Met Player have apps for streaming devices and smart phones. The BPO have an Atmos capable app. available on some smart TVs. The others require and HTPC to connect for AV.

Lastly there are musicians producing program on YouTube, especially organists. The Scott Brothers have led the way, and now Richard McVeigh, organist to Romsey Abbey has made a big splash with this BIS Channel. (Beauty In Sound). He recently passed 100,000 paid subscribers. Then their is Jerry Martin, and cardiothoracic surgeon from Ohio has some splendid options. I have to say he is a really accomplished organist. Anna Lapwood master of music at Pembroke college also has offerings. She often records on the Albert Hall organ at midnight. Actually there a now so many you can not mention them all.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
In the classical arena, there are increasing choices. The Berlin Philharmonic Digital Concert Hall led, and continues to lead the way. All concerts remain in the archive, which goes back to the tenure of Herbert Von Karajan, who foretold the digital age before it began. So he insisted his concerts be recorded and archived on video tape. The organization has grown with, and led the technology. Their concerts have been available in lossless audio for some time and most concerts are now released in Dolby Atmos AV streams. Unfortunately Dolby Atmos specs, limit the volume of streamed Atmos program which is misguided. However you just have to advance the volume. The quality of these Atmos stream has, and is improving at a rapid pace.
I tried out the Berlin Philharmonic Digital Concert Hall on my Apple TV a few months ago, and that time the volume level was very low. I had to disable my -10 dB volume limit on my AVR to get acceptable listening volume but then changing to another app would have a very loud sound if I forgot changing the volume.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I tried out the Berlin Philharmonic Digital Concert Hall on my Apple TV a few months ago, and that time the volume level was very low. I had to disable my -10 dB volume limit on my AVR to get acceptable listening volume but then changing to another app would have a very loud sound if I forgot changing the volume.
This is Dolby's fault and not the BPO. I posted on this previously. These are the Dolby streaming specs. Streams are limited to 18 LFKS. If above Internet companies must auto compress them. For decent dynamic range the signal has to be lowered further. So a Dolby Atmos stream will end up 10 to 12 db. lower than non Dolby streams. This is a serious limitation to providing quality Dolby Atmos streams over the Internet. Dolby's excuse is that that want to avoid dialog getting masked. This sounds like nonsense to me and something they need to change fast.

Yes, this is a huge problem as the sound blasts you when returning to a non Atmos stream. I now have two Dolby Atmos discs from DGG. At the moment hard discs are the only way to really evaluate Dolby Atmos and there are few of these. Most discs are up-mixes of older material which our AVRs and AVPs can do anyway, and usually better.

As far as I'm concerned Dolby Atmos is not worth the trouble and expense at this time. If you do an Atmos install then it is with the intention of future proofing. Streaming Atmos is currently a mess and I blame Dolby Labs. This is a pity. Recording companies are reluctant to issue hard discs, because of the huge reduction of hard disc sales with the rise in streaming. As is usually the case consumers don't care about quality and don't know it when they here it. They just want their $250.00 Atmos sound bar to work! They think that is all there is to it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If you don't mind the concept of not "owning" the tracks, there is plenty of even hi-res streaming available with huge libraries....and you can set their algorithms somewhat to explore per your tastes via your selected preferences/music. I like the advantage of no internet needed myself....where I am internet isn't a given if away from the house at least, or the few times I lose internet service at home, too....and just plugging a usb drive into various gear works so well....
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for the replies. I did happen upon Presto (via hraudio website). Example below.

I don't know anything about them. I also got the free trial to Amazon Unlimited. This weekend when I'm at my house I'll try the streaming.
The BPO have produced a number of BD discs from their archives, and the Rattle Beethoven series is highly recommended. You won't go wrong with that set.
 
P

PWRmx24

Audioholic Intern
Here's some media I can own! Seems like a good deal.

Seems like a good price too.
ROYAL PHILHARMONIC SACDS - BUY 3, SAVE 30%! PRICES AS LOW AS $5.60!

 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I like CDs and vinyl and don't like buying my music more than twice. Of course I am buying it again repeatedly via streaming but I typically listen over 10 hrs/day if I include work.

Well recorded CDs of any type are pretty much audibly flawless to my ears and end up being a credit to just about any capable speaker. While the results can be rather erroneous with the remasters of the classics, most modern recordings made during the computer age at least, seem to have significantly more care with regard to SQ, compression be damned.

Youtube even has some good playback qualities. I am enjoying Pandora as I type this, even though I have prime HD and it just sounds good enough to me, fantastic even.
 
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