After 16 yrs., it's time for a new A/V Receiver w/ Pre-Outs...

G

GKH

Enthusiast
Hi everyone!
I've had my Sony STR-DA3100ES since 2007. With no HDMI connections, some things have become a little troublesome recently. A year or so ago, we added a Sony 4K TV.
I need a pre-out since I'm running my Jolida integrated amp via HT Bypass for 5.1 Blu-ray & DVDs with my AVR. On the Jolida, I turn on HT Bypass, and everything works in harmony.
So; my Jolida runs separately for 2 channel stereo for my turntable & CD/DVD deck.
In my quest, I am certainly open to suggestions. I would like to stay under $1,800.

Thanks for reading, and any advice in advance!

- Greg
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
I would look at the Marantz Cinema 60 or the Denon AVR-X3800H.
 
F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
I own the cinema 60 and the one regret I have in getting it is the fact that for me there is no external treble and bass adjustments and I guess that’s common on the new AVR’s. So if you’re mainly doing music it may be an issue or not maybe for you. No XLR connections but plenty HDMI. Definitely a nice step up from where you’re at but you will need to determine how much you will need it to expand later
https://www.marantz.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/cinema60. I personally think it is a great unit with a lot packed in it.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
I own the cinema 60 and the one regret I have in getting it is the fact that for me there is no external treble and bass adjustments and I guess that’s common on the new AVR’s. So if you’re mainly doing music it may be an issue or not maybe for you. No XLR connections but plenty HDMI. Definitely a nice step up from where you’re at but you will need to determine how much you will need it to expand later
https://www.marantz.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/cinema60. I personally think it is a great unit with a lot packed in it.
XLR connections aren't usually required for home use, unless you need long runs of interconnect cable or you are using pro amplifiers with XLR inputs.
 
F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
XLR connections aren't usually required for home use, unless you need long runs of interconnect cable or you are using pro amplifiers with XLR inputs.
Im just learning this stuff. I’m not sure what you refer to as “pro amplifiers”? If the AVR has them, wouldn’t it be a cleaner sound than RCA feeding down to the amplifier? Both amps I possess have the xlr. Would it not be better for the AVR to have them as well?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Since you’ve been using a Sony AVR for so long, first thought is to get another Sony ES AVR.

But, of course, any of these AVR’s should be good - Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Sony ES.
 
Bobby Bass

Bobby Bass

Audioholic General
Im just learning this stuff. I’m not sure what you refer to as “pro amplifiers”? If the AVR has them, wouldn’t it be a cleaner sound than RCA feeding down to the amplifier? Both amps I possess have the xlr. Would it not be better for the AVR to have them as well?
You may not notice any audible difference with the XLR connections and the equipment with XLR connections will probably cost you more than a unit that has RCA or optical or coaxial connections. If it’s available in your budget suggest trying and decide if it makes a difference to you in your listening room. That’s part of the fun of upgrading your setup. Let us know what you decide and how it sounds.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Im just learning this stuff. I’m not sure what you refer to as “pro amplifiers”? If the AVR has them, wouldn’t it be a cleaner sound than RCA feeding down to the amplifier? Both amps I possess have the xlr. Would it not be better for the AVR to have them as well?
A pro amplifier is a professional audio product which is usually designed for pro audio use, such as PA systems, cinemas, music studios and in gigs by musicians. Such amplifier is also used by audiophiles because of their performance and affordable price, as compared to cost of expensive good looking audiophoolery overpriced stuff.
 
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F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
For now I’ll stick with the RCA seeing as the AVR is new. Had I done more research I might have upgraded to give me more options. It’s tough to know what you will want when you don’t know what’s out there then add in marketing BS. Even marketing claims some say are foolish can produce audible gains. That infamous point of diminishing returns hits a wall in the wallet before common sense sometimes. I’ve made some incorrect buying decisions but not any bad ones I can’t live with.
 
F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
A pro amplifier is a professional audio product which is usually designed for pro audio use, such as PA systems, music studios and in gigs by musicians. Such amplifier is also used by audiophiles because of their performance and affordable price, as compared to cost of expensive good looking audiophoolery overpriced stuff.
I may very well have fallen into the audiofoolery category but to this point have zero regrets. Seemingly every purchase I’ve made even if possibly incorrect long term has improved sound. Thanks for the info!!!
 
D

dlaloum

Senior Audioholic
If your room is less than perfect, then possibly the biggest upgrade to your system could potentially be a good RoomEQ system with an appropriate tuning app...

In the budget / mass-market (ie sticking to below US$1800 !!) - categories, this will pretty much limit you to Denon/Marantz and Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer.

Both of these use substantial sharing of components between their brands, making their AVR's to a great degree interchangeable (functionally) between each families brands - Hence the Onkyo RZ50, Pioneer LX505 and Integra DRX 5.4 - are different in some functional details, but not in any major aspect of performance (and similarly for Denon/Marantz pairs).

Having said that, pricing varies depending on market and retailer. In the USA, Denon is cheaper than Marantz, in EU I believe that they are similarly priced to each other, and sometimes Marantz is cheaper than Denon....(for equivalent performance/spec models) - same for the Onkyo family, where in the USA the pricing is RZ70 (cheapest) then Pioneer LX805 (middle) then Integra DRX 8.4 (most expensive) - but in Australia they are all priced at exactly the same price!
So it pays to shop around in your own region... also the midrange models have been out for a while, and periodically get discounted, sometimes quite deeply discounted.... again this is a regional thing, and sometimes limited to a specific retailer/chain - so shop around.

I have excluded from my shortlist Sony and Yamaha - this is because Sony's EQ/tuning system is designed to optimise for less than ideal speaker location - a spatial tuning, rather than for sound EQ, impulse performance etc... - so it is focused on lifestyle, people who have their speakers in less than ideal locations and need the software to work its magic to place things properly.

Yamaha's YPAO has had very variable reports.... although the reliability and quality of the components has always rated very well.

Denon/Marantz come with Audyssey, and for an extra US$20 you get a smartphone app to tweak the EQ - using this excellent results are definitely possible - for an additional US$200 you get a PC app, that is even more sophisticated. - In this current incarnation, with the tuning apps, Audyssey is competitive with Dirac (without the apps, I found Audyssey to be disappointing, and Dirac to be a substantial upgrade) - Dirac Live is available on the D&M AVR's as an optional upgrade (US$350 ?)

Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer come with Dirac Live, which in my opinion is the best option currently on the market. - even using the fastest 3 point tuning, using the Dirac smartphone app - which took me about 15min - there was an immediate improvement over my previous Audyssey.
The mid models in the series (RZ50, LX505, 5.4) all have pre-outs, the lower range models, only the Integra 3.4 has pre-outs, in the upper range models only the Integra 8.4 has Front L/C/R and SW XLR outputs - but the upper range is probably outside your price range (circa US$3000)

Within your budget you could do the mid range RZ50 and its brethren, which at times recently has dropped as low as US$1000.
You may also, if you shop around, find that you can get an Integra 3.4 at a reasonable price.

Hope this helps
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I own the cinema 60 and the one regret I have in getting it is the fact that for me there is no external treble and bass adjustments and I guess that’s common on the new AVR’s. So if you’re mainly doing music it may be an issue or not maybe for you. No XLR connections but plenty HDMI. Definitely a nice step up from where you’re at but you will need to determine how much you will need it to expand later
https://www.marantz.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/cinema60. I personally think it is a great unit with a lot packed in it.
Looks like it still has tone controls available per p.137 of the pdf manual.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Looks like it still has tone controls available per p.137 of the pdf manual.
No tone controls if Dynamic EQ is enabled, though. What I do is that my Logitech remote has buttons for directly setting the Reference Level Offset to one of 0, 5, 10 or 15 dB, so easily changed depending on the content.

 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Think its more just Audyssey in general? Same for graphic eq. Probably better to use the app and create custom curves if you like to tweak it a lot...
Ah, I edited my post while you quoted it. :)

Yes, it's an Audyssey thing and is the same for my 2015 model Denon AVR. Easy (quick) to use tone controls is very nice as that depends on the content, which is how I use it. On my RME ADI-2 DAC FS desktop DAC there are real tone control encoders that I use on occasion. For my Denon AVR I just set a different Reference Level Offset.
 
F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
Thanks guys I’m going to have to play with this. I’m old school, I want buttons and knobs not a programming degree. I have used the eq settings but this makes it hard to adjust on the fly. Thanks for the info
 
G

GKH

Enthusiast
I own the cinema 60 and the one regret I have in getting it is the fact that for me there is no external treble and bass adjustments and I guess that’s common on the new AVR’s. So if you’re mainly doing music it may be an issue or not maybe for you. No XLR connections but plenty HDMI. Definitely a nice step up from where you’re at but you will need to determine how much you will need it to expand later
https://www.marantz.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/cinema60. I personally think it is a great unit with a lot packed in it.
'Morning! The Marantz Cinema 60 definitely looks nice! I watched a couple of reviews yesterday, along with a few others. There quite a few models available featuring pre-out which I need since I listen to 2 channel Hi-Fi on a separate amplifier.

By the way, I drive a 2016 Focus ST! :)
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I'm not far behind ya. I'm still using a Denon 4311ci which has ( KNOCKING ON REAL WOOD) been working flawlessly since I bought it brand new when it came out.
 
G

GKH

Enthusiast
If your room is less than perfect, then possibly the biggest upgrade to your system could potentially be a good RoomEQ system with an appropriate tuning app...

In the budget / mass-market (ie sticking to below US$1800 !!) - categories, this will pretty much limit you to Denon/Marantz and Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer.

Both of these use substantial sharing of components between their brands, making their AVR's to a great degree interchangeable (functionally) between each families brands - Hence the Onkyo RZ50, Pioneer LX505 and Integra DRX 5.4 - are different in some functional details, but not in any major aspect of performance (and similarly for Denon/Marantz pairs).

Having said that, pricing varies depending on market and retailer. In the USA, Denon is cheaper than Marantz, in EU I believe that they are similarly priced to each other, and sometimes Marantz is cheaper than Denon....(for equivalent performance/spec models) - same for the Onkyo family, where in the USA the pricing is RZ70 (cheapest) then Pioneer LX805 (middle) then Integra DRX 8.4 (most expensive) - but in Australia they are all priced at exactly the same price!
So it pays to shop around in your own region... also the midrange models have been out for a while, and periodically get discounted, sometimes quite deeply discounted.... again this is a regional thing, and sometimes limited to a specific retailer/chain - so shop around.

I have excluded from my shortlist Sony and Yamaha - this is because Sony's EQ/tuning system is designed to optimise for less than ideal speaker location - a spatial tuning, rather than for sound EQ, impulse performance etc... - so it is focused on lifestyle, people who have their speakers in less than ideal locations and need the software to work its magic to place things properly.

Yamaha's YPAO has had very variable reports.... although the reliability and quality of the components has always rated very well.

Denon/Marantz come with Audyssey, and for an extra US$20 you get a smartphone app to tweak the EQ - using this excellent results are definitely possible - for an additional US$200 you get a PC app, that is even more sophisticated. - In this current incarnation, with the tuning apps, Audyssey is competitive with Dirac (without the apps, I found Audyssey to be disappointing, and Dirac to be a substantial upgrade) - Dirac Live is available on the D&M AVR's as an optional upgrade (US$350 ?)

Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer come with Dirac Live, which in my opinion is the best option currently on the market. - even using the fastest 3 point tuning, using the Dirac smartphone app - which took me about 15min - there was an immediate improvement over my previous Audyssey.
The mid models in the series (RZ50, LX505, 5.4) all have pre-outs, the lower range models, only the Integra 3.4 has pre-outs, in the upper range models only the Integra 8.4 has Front L/C/R and SW XLR outputs - but the upper range is probably outside your price range (circa US$3000)

Within your budget you could do the mid range RZ50 and its brethren, which at times recently has dropped as low as US$1000.
You may also, if you shop around, find that you can get an Integra 3.4 at a reasonable price.

Hope this helps
Wow! Thanks for very informative reply! The more research I do, the more overwhelming all of this is! Lol!
Having had my Sony DA3100ES AVR so long (2007), most of my other gear has been upgraded. I bought my Sony 65" 4K TV last year, & all of my speakers have been upgraded, as well.
Just connecting the new Sony 4K along with my Sony Blu-ray to the DA3100ES, and getting everything to work was just about enough to get me to upgrade my Sony AVR! What a pain! No HDMI back in 2007.
Lately, I've had issues with certain DVDs (on my Blu-Ray player) offering video, but no volume. This just started, too. Very random. Never a problem until recently. All my DVDs & Blu-ray disks ran great!
Initially, I thought my Sony Blu-ray deck was going bad. Speaking with Crutchfield tech support, they think deck is fine, and the DA3100ES might be the issue.
Another thing that began a week or so ago is some of my YouTube TV channels work great. But, others, the video is fine! But; no volume! Crazy! Netflix and others are fine! We use a Firestick 4K. Everything has been rebooted, and any updates completed. Strange goings on, for sure!

Keeping in mind that I am essentially running 2 complete systems in my living room; my AVR is only used for TV viewing, and 5.1. For Hi-Fi 2-channel stereo (playing records & CDs), I run my Jolida integrated tube amp, Merrill PolyTable, Hagerman phono stage, & Oppo DV-980H. What my 2 systems do share are my Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers. My Mirage subwoofer is not used for stereo listening. It is connected directly to my DA3100ES along with my Ascend center & rear channels.
For DVD or Blu-ray audio/video or movies, I switch on the HT Bypass on the Jolida! Presto! I have 5.1, and the Sony takes control. The RCA cables run from Bypass connection on the Jolida to the Sony's Pre-Out.
For TV viewing in the evening, unless it is something special, we just run 3.1 - center, rears, and sub.

Right now, my journey so far, has led me to the Onkyo TX-RZ50, Marantz Cinema 60, & possibly the Sony ES STR-AZ5000ES. I'm thinking however, my smart money might be on the RZ50.
Something to note; after all these years, my Sony DA3100ES still performs admirably. Reading and watching some of the reviews on certain newer models, the quality seems less, and more problems..

- Greg
 
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