DEI is apparently the new communist thought monitoring police.

[Trell]

So it wasn't ok for the U.S. white hegemony but it is ok for the U.S. minority groups?

That is a straw man argument, if I ever saw one.

 

[jinjuku]

That is a straw man argument, if I ever saw one.

How so?

 

[Trell]

How so?

You know very well, just like me, that's not what he meant in any shape or form. Nor does his post give a reasonable reader that impression either.

 

[jinjuku]

You know very well, just like me, that's not what he meant in any shape or form. Nor does his post give a reasonable reader that impression either.

No, I don't know very well just like you.

 

[Trell]

No, I don't know very well just like you.

From his posts here I know him well enough to say that you made a straw man argument, which I posted in a reply to you.

 

[jinjuku]

From his posts here I know him well enough to say that you made a straw man argument, which I posted in a reply to you.

Instead of your dog whistle you could try blowing something else.

 

[ski2xblack]

I think it could be argued that identity politics started with those who held power - straight white men - assigning (generally negative) categories to various marginalized demographics. Can you blame those groups for claiming ownership and fighting back?


If all who espouse(d) Enlightenment principles actually practiced what they preached, we probably wouldn't be in a situation where social justice activism was necessary. Implicit bias training and DEI wouldn't be "things", since it wouldn't occur to anyone that they were required.

I actually find myself somewhat in agreement with your points. You seem to be analysing history through a critical theory lens, which does yield insights. But such identitarianism fails as a structure of governance or policy, at least in a free democratic society. And, we're discussing DEI, which is based upon the bastard child of those academic critical theories, specifically the nonsense scholarship of nitwits like Ibram Kendi and Robin DeAngelo. (Sorry, Ibram, but reverse racism based upon race essentialism is essentially racist.)

And I still think that secular liberalism offers the greatest hope for realizing actual justice. The source code for justice is enshrined in our founding documents, despite being authored by a bunch of powerful white guys, a signifigant percentage of which owned other human beings. The methods of the KendiAngelo cult (pseudoscientific implicit bias training, DEI beaurocracy, endorsement of reverse racism, punishment of dissenters) are counterproductive when it comes to realizing true justice. DEI might be less objectionable if it had more King and less Kendi.

 

[GO-NAD!]

So it wasn't ok for the U.S. white hegemony but it is ok for the U.S. minority groups?

Do you seriously think minority groups are seeking hegemony?

 

[jinjuku]

Do you seriously think minority groups are seeking hegemony?

No, that's me stating that in the U.S. that there was a white hegemony. It's a fact, it happened, and it didn't serve the U.S. as a whole well.

 

[GO-NAD!]

No, that's me stating that in the U.S. that there was a white hegemony. It's a fact, it happened, and it didn't serve the U.S. as a whole well.

Well, it can be certainly argued that there is still a white hegemony in the U.S. (and Canada, too). That is what social justice activists are fighting against - not to establish an alternate hegemony.

 

[jinjuku]

Well, it can be certainly argued that there is still a white hegemony in the U.S. (and Canada, too). That is what social justice activists are fighting against .

Feel free to debate that point then. I don't see how dei thought police solve that problem.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I actually find myself somewhat in agreement with your points. You seem to be analysing history through a critical theory lens, which does yield insights. But such identitarianism fails as a structure of governance or policy. And, we're discussing DEI, which is based upon the bastard child of those academic critical theories, specifically the nonsense scholarship of nitwits like Ibram Kendi and Robin DeAngelo. (Sorry, Ibram, but reverse racism based upon race essentialism is essentially racist.)

And I still think that secular liberalism offers the greatest hope for realizing actual justice. The methods of the KendiAngelo cult (pseudoscientific implicit bias training, DEI beaurocracy, endorsement of reverse racism, punishment of dissenters) are counterproductive when it comes to realizing true justice. DEI might be less objectionable if it had more King and less Kendi.

While my comments weren't deliberately derived from CT, they may be informed by it, as there are aspects of it that have merit. CT isn't one unified post-modern theory based on nebulous story-telling. Unfortunately, it is laden with a substantial amount of such baggage, which the ideological right seizes on in order to dismiss it in its entirety.

I agree with you with regards to secular liberalism. But, only if it is put into actual practice.

 

[ski2xblack]

I agree with you with regards to secular liberalism. But, only if it is put into actual practice.

True. My take is that a "top down" imposition reeks of authoritarianism and is doomed to failure in a free society, where a "bottom up" realization has a better chance of success. You saw The Matrix. People accept the programming if given a choice to do so, rather than being compelled to do so.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Feel free to debate that point then. I don't see how dei thought police solve that problem.

Debate which point? That you argue was while I argue is?

Anyway, no, DEI isn't ever going to be a panacea.

 

[jinjuku]

White hegemony is over because it's been legislated away. Merit is typically rewarded and indicative of outcomes.

 

[jinjuku]

Instead of responding with an emoticon you tell me what code is on the books that represents current hegemony?

I'm having a helluva time finding any laws on the books aimed at keeping a racial class held back. I'll keep looking.

 

[Trell]

Instead of responding with an emoticon you tell me what code is on the books that represents current hegemony?

I'm having a helluva time finding any laws on the books aimed at keeping a racial class held back. I'll keep looking.

Making a law saying that there is no racism, or keeping back racial classes i.e. non-white, does not mean it does not exist in the real world. Actually, as far I know you’ve no law saying such.

As you yourself wrote about DEI as “communist thought monitoring police”, you should be aware that communist countries have nice laws about democracy and rule of law. How do you think that works/worked out in practice?

So, yes, I found your post funny in a sad way and naive as well.

 

[GO-NAD!]

White hegemony is over because it's been legislated away. Merit is typically rewarded and indicative of outcomes.

Like murder hasn't been committed since it was made illegal?

If the meritocracy actually existed, we wouldn't see significant disparities in social/class mobility, income differential, health outcomes, etc. Just search "myth of meritocracy" and see how many references pop up.

 

[jinjuku]

Making a law saying that there is no racism, or keeping back racial classes i.e. non-white, does not mean it does not exist in the real world. Actually, as far I know you’ve no law saying such.

As you yourself wrote about DEI as “communist thought monitoring police”, you should be aware that communist countries have nice laws about democracy and rule of law. How do you think that works/worked out in practice?

So, yes, I found your post funny in a sad way and naive as well.

Then stop spouting what you can't prove. Do racist assholes exist? Sure. Is it systemic? Is it codified in law?

I don't care about other countries and their potential level of or entire lip service to Democracy. I started a thread on DEI run amuck do the point of either comply or be silenced.

 

[jinjuku]

Like murder hasn't been committed since it was made illegal?

If the meritocracy actually existed, we wouldn't see significant disparities in social/class mobility, income differential, health outcomes, etc. Just search "myth of meritocracy" and see how many references pop up.

You find me, at any point, in history, were a society has been 'even stevens'.

Meritocracy does indeed exist. You're assumption would preclude the ability for economic class migration.