HDMI issue (new TV, older AVR)

[Eppie]

Hi gang. I'm usually pretty good at figuring these things out on my own and I have an idea what the issue is but I thought I would run it past the group for any suggestions. I installed a new Samsung S95B 4K HDTV (2022 model) and plan to replace the AVR with a 4K model later. For the time being I am using my old Denon AVR-2310ci purchased in 2010. I have a HD-cable box, PS3 and NVidia Shield Pro for HDMI sources, all connected to the AVR. These worked perfectly fine with my Panasonic Plasma also from 2010. Plasma and AVR are 1080p devices. Being from 2010 these should be HDMI 1.4 devices.

After setting up the TV I tried the cable box and that worked fine. Switching to the PS3 I saw a swirling icon on the TV as it was performing some device detection, even though the PS3 is connected to the AVR. The PS3 works fine. Even when the PS3 is turned off (sleep mode) the TV does not complain and recognizes that the AVR is connected and I can see the on-screen menu from the AVR.

The problem is with the NVidia Shield. When I power on the Shield (also connected to the AVR), the TV goes into a device detection mode and recognizes that a Shield is attached, so there is some form of communication through the AVR via HDMI. It buggers up the auto-detection on the AVR though. Normally the AVR communicates with the Shield (a 4K device), sets it to 1080p and recognizes it as an HD-Audio source (surround mode is normally Digital+ and HD-Audio LED lights up). With the new TV connected to the AVR, it detects the Shield when the Shield is powered on (displays a Shield detected window) but then complains that it is not connected or not powered on and displays a connection option screen. The AVR display shows the HDMI port number but does not display the correct surround mode and defaults to stereo. There is no video from the AVR to the TV, so I cannot pull up the on-screen menu from the AVR, I have to use the display on the AVR. Setting the TV to the correct port on the connection option screen has no effect. It complains again that the device is either off or not connected.

If I unplug the TV from the AVR, I can turn on the Shield and get the AVR to auto-detect the device. If I then plug in the TV to the AVR, I can get the AVR to display an image but the TV treats the different sources as separate devices instead of treating it as a single AVR connection. If I switch back to the cable box and then back to the Shield, I get the same connection issues and lack of display as before.

Things I have tried:

• Turned off CEC on the Shield. CEC has always been off on the AVR. I did try turning the AVR CEC on once after I tested the cable box. It killed the audio! Took me a while to figure out that it messed up the HDMI settings so I disabled CEC again and restored the audio. The Shield has a lot more CEC options. I turn most off except for power down. I eventually disabled it completely. No effect on the Shield display issues.
• Tried different HDMI ports on TV and AVR. I initially used the HDMI/ARC port on the TV, but the AVR does not support ARC. I had the forethought to connect 2 HDMI cables to the TV to have a spare, so I tried the other port but no change. I purchased new 4ft 8k rated cables so the HDMI cables are not an issue.
• Set the Shield to 1080p so that it would not try to auto-negotiate the resolution. Tried the AVR HDMI input on both fixed and auto. It only works with the Shield when set to auto and scaling is enabled. Same TV display issues.

Final option was to connect the Shield directly to the TV. As the AVR does not support ARC, I have to use the optical out from the TV to the AVR, which reduces my surround options. It works, but it's a pain to use that way because there is no on-screen display from the AVR to change settings (just the small AVR display). I can program a Quick Option on the AVR remote to change the AVR settings for this setup, which will make things easier for others but my preference would have been to have everything connected the AVR to simplify use for the family.

I suspect this an HDCP or DRM issue. The PS3 is HDMI 1.4 so it behaves with the AVR. I am surprised that the cable box does as well as it is new and a 4K device. The old plasma TV was not a problem as both TV and AVR were HDMI 1.4. I now have HDMI 2 devices with the Shield (2.0) and TV (2.1) but there is a HDMI 1.4 AVR stuck in the middle so I am in HDCP hell. That new AVR may be closer than I planned.

 

[Trebdp83]

It is difficult navigating through the settings of mixed specced devices these days to get audio and video working properly. Newer AVRs will have settings for each input source concerning output so mixed specced devices can get audio and video out without issue. Check the Input Signal Plus setting for the HDMI port to which you are connecting the receiver. If it is OFF, try turning it ON. If it is ON, try turning it OFF. It's basically Samsung's HDMI 2.0 and up support switch. Some older devices will not output a video signal with it ON and newer devices will have issues if it is OFF as HDR will be disabled. Things get even messier when a newer device is going through an older AVR.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi gang. I'm usually pretty good at figuring these things out on my own and I have an idea what the issue is but I thought I would run it past the group for any suggestions. I installed a new Samsung S95B 4K HDTV (2022 model) and plan to replace the AVR with a 4K model later. For the time being I am using my old Denon AVR-2310ci purchased in 2010. I have a HD-cable box, PS3 and NVidia Shield Pro for HDMI sources, all connected to the AVR. These worked perfectly fine with my Panasonic Plasma also from 2010. Plasma and AVR are 1080p devices. Being from 2010 these should be HDMI 1.4 devices.

After setting up the TV I tried the cable box and that worked fine. Switching to the PS3 I saw a swirling icon on the TV as it was performing some device detection, even though the PS3 is connected to the AVR. The PS3 works fine. Even when the PS3 is turned off (sleep mode) the TV does not complain and recognizes that the AVR is connected and I can see the on-screen menu from the AVR.

The problem is with the NVidia Shield. When I power on the Shield (also connected to the AVR), the TV goes into a device detection mode and recognizes that a Shield is attached, so there is some form of communication through the AVR via HDMI. It buggers up the auto-detection on the AVR though. Normally the AVR communicates with the Shield (a 4K device), sets it to 1080p and recognizes it as an HD-Audio source (surround mode is normally Digital+ and HD-Audio LED lights up). With the new TV connected to the AVR, it detects the Shield when the Shield is powered on (displays a Shield detected window) but then complains that it is not connected or not powered on and displays a connection option screen. The AVR display shows the HDMI port number but does not display the correct surround mode and defaults to stereo. There is no video from the AVR to the TV, so I cannot pull up the on-screen menu from the AVR, I have to use the display on the AVR. Setting the TV to the correct port on the connection option screen has no effect. It complains again that the device is either off or not connected.

If I unplug the TV from the AVR, I can turn on the Shield and get the AVR to auto-detect the device. If I then plug in the TV to the AVR, I can get the AVR to display an image but the TV treats the different sources as separate devices instead of treating it as a single AVR connection. If I switch back to the cable box and then back to the Shield, I get the same connection issues and lack of display as before.

Things I have tried:

• Turned off CEC on the Shield. CEC has always been off on the AVR. I did try turning the AVR CEC on once after I tested the cable box. It killed the audio! Took me a while to figure out that it messed up the HDMI settings so I disabled CEC again and restored the audio. The Shield has a lot more CEC options. I turn most off except for power down. I eventually disabled it completely. No effect on the Shield display issues.
• Tried different HDMI ports on TV and AVR. I initially used the HDMI/ARC port on the TV, but the AVR does not support ARC. I had the forethought to connect 2 HDMI cables to the TV to have a spare, so I tried the other port but no change. I purchased new 4ft 8k rated cables so the HDMI cables are not an issue.
• Set the Shield to 1080p so that it would not try to auto-negotiate the resolution. Tried the AVR HDMI input on both fixed and auto. It only works with the Shield when set to auto and scaling is enabled. Same TV display issues.

Final option was to connect the Shield directly to the TV. As the AVR does not support ARC, I have to use the optical out from the TV to the AVR, which reduces my surround options. It works, but it's a pain to use that way because there is no on-screen display from the AVR to change settings (just the small AVR display). I can program a Quick Option on the AVR remote to change the AVR settings for this setup, which will make things easier for others but my preference would have been to have everything connected the AVR to simplify use for the family.

I suspect this an HDCP or DRM issue. The PS3 is HDMI 1.4 so it behaves with the AVR. I am surprised that the cable box does as well as it is new and a 4K device. The old plasma TV was not a problem as both TV and AVR were HDMI 1.4. I now have HDMI 2 devices with the Shield (2.0) and TV (2.1) but there is a HDMI 1.4 AVR stuck in the middle so I am in HDCP hell. That new AVR may be closer than I planned.

Sometimes old gear will just not work with new gear these days. My Oppo player would not work with my new AVP and TV, no matter what I tried. The picture was all purple. So I retired it to the family room system that was all 2K. It has worked perfectly in that system since.

 

[-Jim-]

@Eppie you are not alone with this type of issue on a Samsung Smart TV. I have a 2021 model (QN75QN85AAFXZC in our Games Room) and it is just too "smart" for it's own good. I too struggled to get CEC setting sorted for devices, and it took multiple attempts to get it sorted with my son's Nintendo Switch Gaming Console. It would even screw up repeatedly after it recognized the Switch and got it running perfectly fine, only to have the next time he wanted to play it forget all that, and you'd have to muck around for 20 minutes to get it sorted again.

He finally gave up on the "big" TV as he lost his enthusiasm due to the endless struggles. He retreated to the Family Room and the smaller /older 55 inch Samsung (less) Smart TV there. (His Mom isn't super happy with the situation but is understanding.)

I am a bit of a Samsung TV fan (we have another 55 inch Samsung in the Man Cave /Junk Room in the basement, and a 42 inch in the Master Bedroom for the Misses), and even though the QN75QN85 is a fabulous TV that cost quite a few $$, the manual is horrible. Absolutely the worst manual I have ever seen from an upper tier supplier. Firmware updates have not improved the "smartness" either. The picture is still great, and I use it a lot as my Atmos system is integrated with it along with a 4K Samsung Blu-ray player and a cable box connected via our Denon AVRX4400H.

I hope you find a solution to your woes, but until then you can rest assured that misery loves company. And some of that resides at my house.

 

[Eppie]

The Shield was outputting in stereo for a while but I managed to sort out the audio settings so that the AVR is displaying Digital+ with the optical connection from the TV. I agree @-Jim- , these "smart" TVs are too smart for their own good. I don't see why the TV has to try and figure out what is connected to the AVR. The AVR can handle HDCP issues between connected sources and the TV should only worry about handshaking between itself and the AVR. It's the pass through of information that's causing the issues. I plan to upgrade the AVR any way but it's annoying for now.

Next up is fine tuning the picture. We watched Dune last night in movie mode and the picture was too dark. I initially used movie mode for TV viewing as I don't like over saturated images, but Dune is a dark movie to begin with and there was no shading in some areas, just black. Have to admit, the blacks are inky black on these sets which is nice, but I'm missing shades of grey. Switched to standard picture mode and reduced the brightness and contrast which improved things, but dark grey areas still lack some detail. I was hoping to find a YouTube video on recommended settings but have not found a trusted source yet. Would you recommend a setup blue-ray or maybe I should hire someone with proper calibration equipment? BestBuy wanted $300 for calibration but that's overprices in my view.

 

[-Jim-]

@Eppie I've been able to get my Samsung tweaked for me as I too didn't like the standard settings offered.

Before I was seriously looking at Spears & Munsil Ultra HD Benchmark

Having those would allow you to repeat the calibration process on the TV or another TV. It's not cheap but a lot less than a one time visit by the Geek Squad at Best Buy.