Heat and electricity

[highfigh]

I would say my understanding of electricity as it relates to a home is pretty good. Not a journeyman electrician but I get it. BUT, when it comes to small electronics it gets way more complicated for me. There is a lot happening there. One certainty is that it is much easier to blow your stuff up by starving it for power not overloading it. Brown outs are bad!!!!

This makes sense I think? you are correct I metered the outlets and there is no voltage fluctuation. but for curiosity I want to measure the amps on that circuit while in use. Buckneked correctly pointed out many variables. I’m now wondering if my music source being streaming and not cd or album. If It could very well be a fluctuating in internet service not electricity. Could a slow down in down load affect sound? I don’t have noise I seemingly lose brilliance and volume. Not even sure if that’s possible but hey it’s me.
If my wife can decorate a Christmas tree and have it pull 13 amps I have to be close to pushing my 15 amp circuit controlling a tv, computer, cable box, turn table security camera system, dvd, Avr, and amp. No they are not all running at the same time but all plugged in and pulling juice. What I don’t truly understand about residential electricity is when you flirt with the limits of a breaker, how much electricity acts like it’s in brown out mode before it trips? ( I have never tripped anything, I’m just discussing theory and I understand and intend on breaking the circuit into three sources. Three circuits has to be better than heating up 14g wire to its max. I am a work in progress.

Why would you have your cameras on the same circuit as the AV? Keep that separate and use a UPS, to keep it going if the power goes out.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks, exactly what I need.
Hate to ask them for a quote.

It's made in China- how expensive could it be?

 

[highfigh]

I live in Illinois I’ve been trying to hunt down the variance but have been able to. Everything is conduit so I’m not dealing with a double boned ground and the 114 is within tolerance so it hasn’t bothered me on nothing sensitive is on that breaker. It’s baffling. The 117 is on the higher side of many of the houses I’ve worked in. I am not a trained professional but I know how not to kill me or others. Again I don’t do this for a living but the closer to Chicago I go the closer to 110 I get. Is that my unprofessional opinion? Most likely

I normally see 121VAC, ± a couple of volts.

 

[Focus SE]

Why would you have your cameras on the same circuit as the AV? Keep that separate and use a UPS, to keep it going if the power goes out.

AV set up is just at its first stop in the door. It’s not staying there but I got the green light from my wife and wasn’t going to fool around with spending money on a designated room and give her time to realize the end cost. Get it in and get it going before she figures out the true end cost. It’s strategy!!!! I’ve learned a few things in 32 years of marriage

 

[Danzilla31]

AV set up is just at its first stop in the door. It’s not staying there but I got the green light from my wife and wasn’t going to fool around with spending money on a designated room and give her time to realize the end cost. Get it in and get it going before she figures out the true end cost. It’s strategy!!!! I’ve learned a few things in 32 years of marriage

LMFAO!!!!

 

[PENG]

I believe you may have narrowed my issue to an understandable way for my brain. As far as recordings you could not be more right. My favorite artist growing up was Bob Seger. When I set this system up I was like “WTF” I just wasted all my money! Starting with Night Moves all the way through Like a Rock there is zero dynamics. Don’t even get me started on REO Speedwagons Roll with the changes, it’s un-listenable on my speakers. I asked why in the heck can I now like the sound of things I didn’t listen to and and dislike my favorites. In another forum I asked about getting a good quality switch so I can hook up my old school infinity’s and would love to find a good pair at a decent price of Kappa 9.1’s they played my favorites a little better but that being said I couldn’t be happier with my sound with good recordings. I just can’t get enough!!!
Thanks I’ll look into anther streaming service
As it relates to your diminishing returns point I have reached that curve in my budget. One bit of advice I got was that you don’t need to spend a lot of money to get good sound. He was exactly right. But that being said a friend of mine has the same speakers and hi end equipment and it certainly is a better sound than I have. However my budget stops here. And now there is only one person I know with, IMO, has a better sound pleasing to my ears and I’m ok with second place because I don’t have four times the money to get there.

I have tried Youtube, Apple music, Amazon HD, Tidal MQA and Qobuz so far. I would rank Qobuz top, followed by Amazon. Tidal is disappointing, overrated imo...

So, in the end I decided to stick with Qobuz. Other than that, I would continue to buy from HDtrack, and a couple other comparable online stores, and use jRiver to play those files, also use DLBC most of the time.

I felt the importance of seeking out publictly available high quality recordings, so I created a thread to collect titles recommended by forum members.

If you have a good list of high quality recordings, whether they are digital files, or vinyl albums, please share, and I can (or you can post them on that thread) add them to the list.

 

[PENG]

It's made in China- how expensive could it be?

Since you asked, I googled, and found:

China's ultra-high-end hi-fi - Witchdoctor

Think you know everything there is to know about the audiophile scene? This will leave you gobsmacked: TONY WAINHOUSE writes about his incredible hi-fi initiation in Hangzhou, China. “In the highest room, in the tallest tower. Standing taller than most men. Rearing up on hind legs to brandish...

witchdoctor.co.nz

That's a US$760,009 system, keep googling may find more expensive ones...

 

[Focus SE]

LMFAO!!!!

I’m already in trouble because the cost just went up $2700. You ask what fun high end piece of equipment did you buy now? Well nothing electronics. You see my daughter was having a pre Taylor swift concert party at my house and wanted to get into the concert feeling so we put my toys to work. Warning: kids don’t try this at home, doing so could result in financial ramification and possibly personal injury. Any way a little back story my house is mainly frame construction and has a walk out basement. The speakers are currently on an outside wall essentially on the second story so the concrete foundation is 8.5 feet below. WELL, I gave the kids the concert experience they were looking for and found out that what I thought was a gimmicky pop star will rock the doors off your house. And I can prove it because I took out the stationary portion of my sliding glass door two feet away from the speaker. I wanted to see how loud it would go before I heard ear fatigue and distortion. Well being loud as hell at levels I would not suggest, (and no guests in the room for all the safety sallies out there) my setting of 62 on the volume took out my patio door. The look of disapproval from my wife really was a moment of pride. Ridiculous for sure but hey who buys a Ferrari and does 54 in the right lane. It was a cheap door and it wasn’t volume it was vibration that did it in. The sub woofer was not on so am I happy with the speakers? You bet!

I have tried Youtube, Apple music, Amazon HD, Tidal MQA and Qobuz so far. I would rank Qobuz top, followed by Amazon. Tidal is disappointing, overrated imo...

So, in the end I decided to stick with Qobuz. Other than that, I would continue to buy from HDtrack, and a couple other comparable online stores, and use jRiver to play those files, also use DLBC most of the time.

I felt the importance of seeking out publictly available high quality recordings, so I created a thread to collect titles recommended by forum members.

If you have a good list of high quality recordings, whether they are digital files, or vinyl albums, please share, and I can (or you can post them on that thread) add them to the list.

I will certainly if I come across them. I have stayed out of this audiophile arena because if I can’t have something I want to live with I would rather just not have it. I’m now fortunate enough to jump in and now have a long way to go to building a library

 

[lovinthehd]

Since you mentioned, did see this pair of Kappa 9s up for sale recently https://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/d/springfield-flagship-infinity-reference/7633223457.html

 

[lovinthehd]

Since putting the system together I have not watched any movies so that will be an entirely new set of issues. Let’s just say my room is an acoustical mess. The intent now that I’m an empty nester, is to set up a designated listening room. So for now I’m in a family room that is a great location in my house but the layout is poor for music. As far as the fan kicking on yes I can clearly hear it kick in. Total disclosure the average person would not ever have a problem because you really need to have it at a high volume before it kicks in. It’s new and I’m having fun but it’s not daily listening. The equipment is almost directly to my left about three feet away and the speakers are 13 feet in front of me. The point of this thread wasn’t that I had a constant heat problem it’s really just me trying to get a better understanding of how these things tick without having to get a doctorate in electrical engineering with a masters in sound. I went to the axpona show here in Illinois. And I can tell you I listened to some really cool stuff. Not one room I went into could I say that sounds bad. But what I can tell you is some rooms it sounded like something I want to hear in my house. Equipment matters to my ears. But my budget for what I want to do is laughable to a lot of audiophiles but much higher than the average bear. I appreciate the reasoned dialog
Thanks

3 feet away is closer than what I was thinking, my racks are usually at least as far away as my main speakers. I wouldn't expect fan noise from that Marantz amp, tho.

 

[Focus SE]

Since you mentioned, did see this pair of Kappa 9s up for sale recently https://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/d/springfield-flagship-infinity-reference/7633223457.html

Thank you I did not see those. I did see a pair for 1900 in Gary Indiana and that would save me the shipping but 2k for thirty year old amp killers that will most likely need the Polydome tweeters re done, seems a bit high. Had deposit on a pair of 9.1’s for $650 in Florida ( I was driving there anyway) and last second the guy “sold them to his brother” I was bummed. Go figure a week later an exact duplicate set two towns over for $2500. Obvious what happened there now paying $2000 seems nuts
I have a good pair of 7.1 kappas so I don’t have to get nuts. But thank you for the heads up

 

[Focus SE]

3 feet away is closer than what I was thinking, my racks are usually at least as far away as my main speakers. I wouldn't expect fan noise from that Marantz amp, tho.

Again it’s noisy but I very rarely plan on pushing it to break more windows. And it’s not its permanent placement.

 

[highfigh]

Since you asked, I googled, and found:

China's ultra-high-end hi-fi - Witchdoctor

Think you know everything there is to know about the audiophile scene? This will leave you gobsmacked: TONY WAINHOUSE writes about his incredible hi-fi initiation in Hangzhou, China. “In the highest room, in the tallest tower. Standing taller than most men. Rearing up on hind legs to brandish...

witchdoctor.co.nz

That's a US$760,009 system, keep googling may find more expensive ones...

I didn't write that expensive equipment isn't produced in China, I wrote that the example is made in China. I would bet that the $760K system is aimed at the Japanese market- they spend a lot for this stuff.

Interesting text in the link- "...the awesome Dragon music playback system eagerly awaited its next victims".

 

[PENG]

I didn't write that expensive equipment isn't produced in China, I wrote that the example is made in China. I would bet that the $760K system is aimed at the Japanese market- they spend a lot for this stuff.

I know you didn't, was just curious myself about whether there are expensive made in China audiophile gear so I googled, and was shocked to find those stuff; and that they appear to be able to actually sell, or more accurately, have quite a few "victims" lol... Probably not just Japan, as there must be a ton of rich potential targets in HK and Singapore, even Taiwan.

 

[Focus SE]

Interesting/odd update on heat in the AVR. Against lots of opinions, I picked up another amp. I’ll get right to the topic. In previous posts answering my question I discovered I need to make settings changes in the AVR to bi amp. To try to get it to run cooler, but before I made any setting changes, I switched the amp and with no setting changes and the AVR now runs MUCH cooler. My amp sounded pretty good and I would recommend the Marantz 7055. It does it’s job well but I knew my speakers could be clearer. The system had what I would describe as a white noise in what should be a dead spot in sound. I get this game of gain is one of diminishing returns. Anyway I decided to go from the AB to a high dose of vitamin D Amplifier. After a lot of reviews I gambled and it paid off. I’m playing the long game and hope to quit spending for a long time now. Anyway I have no idea how or why the AVR is cooler considering the AVR and amp were both Marantz. I can only now take a SWAG and say I believe the Marantz 7055 was designed and intend for 8ohm use and I’m pushing 4ohm speakers. The new amp and speakers now are both legacy audio. Now to figure out how to bi amp the speakers on this amp. All the instructions for bi amping through the AVR assume I’m not using the pre outs. This amp was designed for bi amping. It has for channels and for separate transformers on four boards internally in one chassis.

 

[PENG]

Yes they are the volume settings I was using after I did the calibration. The amp fan ( after giving it a good work out) actually sounds like a computer fan.

You must be pushing the C60 really hard, I have had many Marantz and Denon AVRs/AVPs in the past and never heard the fan on. My typical listening level was probably around 65 to 75 dB average, volume -20 to -15 (occasionally) when watching Blue Ray movies. Those build in fans are typically set to turn to lower D+M's warranty exposures, for longevity, many users would add an external fans. In those cases, the internal fans will/should, never turn on.

 

[PENG]

Interesting/odd update on heat in the AVR. Against lots of opinions, I picked up another amp. I’ll get right to the topic. In previous posts answering my question I discovered I need to make settings changes in the AVR to bi amp. To try to get it to run cooler, but before I made any setting changes, I switched the amp and with no setting changes and the AVR now runs MUCH cooler. My amp sounded pretty good and I would recommend the Marantz 7055. It does it’s job well but I knew my speakers could be clearer. The system had what I would describe as a white noise in what should be a dead spot in sound. I get this game of gain is one of diminishing returns. Anyway I decided to go from the AB to a high dose of vitamin D Amplifier. After a lot of reviews I gambled and it paid off. I’m playing the long game and hope to quit spending for a long time now. Anyway I have no idea how or why the AVR is cooler considering the AVR and amp were both Marantz. I can only now take a SWAG and say I believe the Marantz 7055 was designed and intend for 8ohm use and I’m pushing 4ohm speakers. The new amp and speakers now are both legacy audio. Now to figure out how to bi amp the speakers on this amp. All the instructions for bi amping through the AVR assume I’m not using the pre outs. This amp was designed for bi amping. It has for channels and for separate transformers on four boards internally in one chassis.

This is confusing, and so I re-read all your posts, but still could not figure out clearly what's the issues were and how getting a second amp fixed the issues. Please do us a favor (I assume I am not the only one puzzled...), please clarify some points:

1) From your original post, you mentioned a) using the C60 pre outs only, yet the "receiver" still gets hot when it is not pushing anything... That was clearly explained and dealt with by TLSGuy and others who mentioned the preamp mode setting option.

2) the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. (That is a weird one, but it could be due to more than one factor, one being, since you are streaming only, your download speed at the time, could also be the provider's level control that may not be constant all the time, etc.)

3) From your last post, you mentioned you picked up another amp and then you said "Anyway I decided to go from the AB to a high dose of vitamin D Amplifier.", so does that mean you are now using the 7055 with an additional amp that is a class D amp?

4) You now mentioned bi-amp, and has not made any setting change, so how are you "biamping"?

5) You now also said "Against lots of opinions, I picked up another amp.", what opinions did you go against, I don't recall anyone suggesting you should not replace the 7055, and/or add a second amp.

I thought we were all trying to figure out the seemingly inexplicable behavior of your C60 as described in 1) above, such as whether you engaged preamp mode, and you answered no, so that would have been the main reason why the C60 still run hot, other reasons would of course be related to ventilation, i.e. not having enough space/clearance for natural cooling.

Please also note that using 4 ohm speakers will not affect the C60 because you are using external power amp and the C60 is used as preamp/processor only, as you said in your first post, it is "..not pushing anything.."

To be clear, I am only asking questions as I want to learn something too, and am very curious to how adding another amp could (and seemingly has) fixed your original issues of the C60 running hot even just used as a prepro, and the variable performance versus the time of day as highlighted in your original post.

Thank you very much in advance for clarifying the above (that is, fill in the blanks) for me.

 

[Focus SE]

You must be pushing the C60 really hard, I have had many Marantz and Denon AVRs/AVPs in the past and never heard the fan on. My typical listening level was probably around 65 to 75 dB average, volume -20 to -15 (occasionally) when watching Blue Ray movies. Those build in fans are typically set to turn to lower D+M's warranty exposures, for longevity, many users would add an external fans. In those cases, the internal fans will/should, never turn on.

Yes the fan kicked in when I pushed the system hard. The fan however that kicked on was in the m7055 amp not the C60. My original question was why the AVR got hot when the amp was doing the heavy lifting. I thought it was because the AVR was pushing power to speakers whether they pulled it out or not. But now with the new amp the c60 is cooler while being pushed. Typical daily listening is not at high levels. It’s all new to me and I’m testing limits on clarity. This is kind of one of those “hey Doc, it hurts when I do this” moments. The obvious solution, don’t do that. It was just an observation. I’m not a mechanic but I know when I’m driving a quality car. The same is true for Hi fi for me. I love it when it’s good and want to have a little understanding of how to make it better.

 

[Focus SE]

This is confusing, and so I re-read all your posts, but still could not figure out clearly what's the issues were and how getting a second amp fixed the issues. Please do us a favor (I assume I am not the only one puzzled...), please clarify some points:

1) From your original post, you mentioned a) using the C60 pre outs only, yet the "receiver" still gets hot when it is not pushing anything... That was clearly explained and dealt with by TLSGuy and others who mentioned the preamp mode setting option.

2) the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. (That is a weird one, but it could be due to more than one factor, one being, since you are streaming only, your download speed at the time, could also be the provider's level control that may not be constant all the time, etc.)

3) From your last post, you mentioned you picked up another amp and then you said "Anyway I decided to go from the AB to a high dose of vitamin D Amplifier.", so does that mean you are now using the 7055 with an additional amp that is a class D amp?

4) You now mentioned bi-amp, and has not made any setting change, so how are you "biamping"?

5) You now also said "Against lots of opinions, I picked up another amp.", what opinions did you go against, I don't recall anyone suggesting you should not replace the 7055, and/or add a second amp.

I thought we were all trying to figure out the seemingly inexplicable behavior of your C60 as described in 1) above, such as whether you engaged preamp mode, and you answered no, so that would have been the main reason why the C60 still run hot, other reasons would of course be related to ventilation, i.e. not having enough space/clearance for natural cooling.

Please also note that using 4 ohm speakers will not affect the C60 because you are using external power amp and the C60 is used as preamp/processor only, as you said in your first post, it is "..not pushing anything.."

To be clear, I am only asking questions as I want to learn something too, and am very curious to how adding another amp could (and seemingly has) fixed your original issues of the C60 running hot even just used as a prepro, and the variable performance versus the time of day as highlighted in your original post.

Thank you very much in advance for clarifying the above (that is, fill in the blanks) for me.

Ok sorry your second reply must have come in when I was typing my reply. Let me just say I appreciate your thoughtfulness and do not want to waste your time.
To be very clear, I do not have an issue with heat that I am worried about putting my equipment in jeopardy of damage. All heat issues are self inflicted!!! When I am being a normal human being listening to music even at an elevated level (but below 40% on the dial) everything is cool and clear. All of this questioning is for a theoretical understanding of how these things work.let me take your numbered points one at a time.
1) yes the pre out issue was answered and I agreed and intend on correcting that. No issues or objections. But my goal was to acquire the legacy iv4 to bi amp my speakers and I knew it would be here soon enough because I’m building my dream system in a short time frame and maxing my budget. Currently I’m waiting on my own decision on what speaker wires to get because I do not have enough to bi amp. And I’m not decided that an RCA splitter isn’t a choke point.
2) yes I do believe that answer to my differential of sound at times is related to download/streaming. After metering my outlets and panel I agree and because I’ve hemorrhaged money a good streaming device and streaming service will be postponed. Im trying to do too much from the beginning and know it. But im trying to learn.
3) yes me being silly. Currently the new class d has replaced the 7055 for the fronts. And was intended to do so to bi amp the fronts. The 7055 will now power the rears and a center channel to be named later. 5.1 is all I want to do for movies because it’s a small.it was suggested to me in my very first post when I got my speakers that I don’t need expensive equipment for it to sound good. That has been proven to be a true statement my speakers sounded very good with the 7055. But with the iv4 it’s better. I don’t have a decoder ring for all the terminology used.but I would describe it as clarity brilliance and definition.
4) I haven’t bi amped yet because of needing wiring and now questioning wether an rca splitter is a good idea because the c60 AVR doesn’t have XLR outputs. A bad buying decision on my part even though I think it’s a great unit I didn’t think far enough ahead and didn’t know I wouldn’t be able to do what I wanted until I realized I couldn’t and that could apply to a lot.
5) mainly my wife said I don’t need another amp (that statement was true but for humor) in this thread it was not suggested but it was in other Forums. This is in no way an insult to you or any other’s attempting to help me with my ignorance. But sometimes, without writing a novel, to explain every nuance of where I’m going with this it’s hard to explain.
(your last two paragraphs not numbered.)
Haha we are right where we started. If you’re confused, imagine try being me. In my original post I was curious as to why with seemingly no load the unit would heat (yes I was pushing it like an idiot) for gods sake it shattered my patio door from vibration. The level of unnecessary and reckless abuse of equipment is not up for debate. But it is proof that you don’t need watts to be loud and clear.
Now back to the mystery. I intended to switch to the pre amp mode when I re did my room correction after installing the new amp.they may have made a noticeable difference, I don’t know I didn’t get there yet. I wanted to hook up the new amp and listen with no other changes and hear the difference. Only switching the amp was the goal. After reading and believing the advice in previous comments I expected the same heat in the c60 at stupid levels. I was surprised and shocked that there was a NOTICEABLE reduction in heat based on touch (no thermometers were hurt in this non scientific experiment because they weren’t used) here is why it makes even less sense since I originally asked my question. If my original theory was correct thinking that the unit was pushing power and the fact that it was not being used did not matter to the avr because the dial was set to call for power to all the channels even if it wasn’t used. Then you point out that the four ohm speaker won’t pull more energy because it’s being pushed by the amp. (I have no reason to say it’s cooler now if I didn’t believe it to be so) to what degree? I don’t know and don’t really care. I won’t determine how the pre amp setting will cool it even more until I get more 12g Wire and hook it up. Until that happens, For now the 7055 will be hooked back up to the old equipment until I designate a room and configure it. When I get the center and tv/projection then the 7055 will push’s the surrounds while the IV4 will bi amp the fronts. That o lot of rambling but hopefully puts it all in perspective. So in conclusion it’s still a mystery to me that can stay that way but it defies my limited knowledge of electricity and all thoughtful suggestions to adjust this. Thank you very much for trying to help. I TRULY APPRECIATE IT. Thanks